1. #6021
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    Not interested in a Light vs. Void expansion at all in the near future.

    Give us Tel’Abim as a continent with Arabic and West Asia influences. Deserts, jungles, monastery’s, cities of brass, bustling market places and bazaar’s. Enemies such as Ifrit, Djinn, ghouls etc. Give it a MoP feel, grounded and exploring a new land. Bring in Captain Nightsquall who was mentioned this expansion, as well as his dread pirate fleet.

    Or give us Avaloren as another archetypical fantasy world with a different spin as well as new races.

    Keep things grounded please.
    I love this idea sooooo much. I long for a place with aesthetics based on a real world cultures. MoP, as you have mentioned yourself, is a great analogy. Arabic vibes would be absolutely awesome. I think, personally, what I loved about Pandaria was it's exotic take on WoW - it's music, it's assets, it's inhabitants. Even the main theme was woven with "ancient philosophies" vibes and, let's say, finding "inner peace". That made possible for players to experiece more grounded themes. The whole idea of exploration of an ancient civilization, it's wonders and dark secrets - amazing feeling.

    I think Dragonflight is trying to establish that "grounded" feeling again, creating, to a degree, a template upon which players' satisfaction is being measured and tested. And as far as I have seen it's pretty much successful in these terms.

    I remember when Kyrian art was leaked before Shadowlands expansion was revealed, I was convinced they will go for the Greek culture for the entire expansion. Now I wish they went this path - pantheon of some powerful beings based on the greek pantheon, the River Styx counterpart as a central part of Shadowlands by which you enter 'the Maw' which basically could have been Hades. I'd love to see some major seasonal content feature revolving around "Olympic games". All the myths could have been so easily incorporated as side storylines there. Even "Oracle of Delphi" could have been such a nice addition to build up some speculation hype around 'prophecies'. But well, I guess it is what it is

  2. #6022
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    You’re still not explaining how Ethereals mean space/cosmic stuff when time traveling intergalactic space goats don’t.
    Again, a void expansion is full of cosmic space stuff by default, with a strong possibility of us going off world to deal with the threat.

    A Yrel invasion expansion would more likely remain entirely on Azeroth since Draenor is likely dead or destroyed. We also have Draenei as playable races, and Yrel is a known character.

  3. #6023
    Herald of the Titans Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Again, a void expansion is full of cosmic space stuff by default, with a strong possibility of us going off world to deal with the threat. A Yrel invasion expansion would more likely remain entirely on Azeroth since Draenor is likely dead or destroyed.
    There’s nothing saying that a void (Ethereal) invasion expansion would be so wildly different than a light (Yrel) invasion expansion.

    We’d have the same possibility of fighting known villains like Rafaam on Azeroth as Yrel (who in all media outside of that 20-30 minute quest in BfA has been a hero)

    Though… no matter if we have a light or void expansion there would be cosmic stuff, as just a “ok let’s only fight Yrel/Rafaam on Azeroth” wouldn’t be nearly enough substance for an entire expansion.

    For either expansion idea we’d certainly be going to some cosmic realm or some other planet.
    Last edited by Nightshade711; 2023-05-18 at 03:06 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    There’s nothing saying that a void (Ethereal) invasion expansion would be so wildly different than a light (Yrel) invasion expansion.

    We’d have the same possibility of fighting known villains like Rafaam on Azeroth as Yrel (who in all media outside of that 20-30 minute quest in BfA has been a hero)
    Rafaam? Rafaam is just a greedy archeologist looking to get rich off of artifacts. He isn't connected to the Void in that fashion, least not to the point where you can base an expansion around him. He's mainly a villain for the league of explorers.

    Yrel on the other hand leads a genocidal army of fanatical light worshippers looking to convert everyone to the light (and kill them if they refuse).

    It's fairly obvious which one is the more likely villain.

    No matter if we have a light or void expansion there would be cosmic stuff, as just a “ok let’s only fight Yrel/Rafaam on Azeroth” wouldn’t be nearly enough substance for an entire expansion.

    For either expansion idea we’d certainly be going to some cosmic realm or some other planet.
    Again, a Void expansion would not be contained on Azeroth. Not only would any viable Void threat be coming from outside of Azeroth since the major Old Gods are "dead", but having Ethereals as a playable race all but assures you're not staying on Azeroth for that expansion.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2023-05-18 at 03:11 PM.

  5. #6025
    Herald of the Titans Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Rafaam? Rafaam is just a greedy archeologist looking to get rich off of artifacts. He isn't connected to the Void in that fashion, least not to the point where you can base an expansion around him. He's mainly a villain for the league of explorers.

    Yrel on the other hand leads a genocidal army of fanatical light worshippers looking to convert everyone to the light or kill them.
    It's fairly obvious which one is the more likely villain.
    Rafaam who was datamined with a void ethereal model, yes.
    (Though it is listed as “temp” so maybe it’s not a final version of his model. https://www.wowhead.com/npc=190573/temp-dnt)

    Again, Yrel has only shown up as a villain for maybe 30 minutes in total in all of blizzard media? Versus someone like Rafaam who has been a popular recurring villain throughout Hearthstone…

    Again, a Void expansion would not be contained on Azeroth. Not only would any viable Void threat be coming from outside of Azeroth since the major Old Gods are "dead", but having Ethereals as a playable race all but assures you're not staying on Azeroth for that expansion.
    Sure, I’m not arguing that a void expansion would be contained purely on Azeroth. But I don’t think you even read anything I said just went full on monkey typewriter.

    I said a light expansion wouldn’t be contained on Azeroth.
    No matter if we have a light or void expansion there would be cosmic stuff, as just a “ok let’s only fight Yrel/Rafaam on Azeroth” wouldn’t be nearly enough substance for an entire expansion.

    For either expansion idea we’d certainly be going to some cosmic realm or some other planet.
    Last edited by Nightshade711; 2023-05-18 at 03:17 PM.
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  6. #6026
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You can have that opinion, the problem is that they're not going to be brought into an expansion with a ghost theme. They're going to be brought in during a void expansion, with plenty of space/cosmic stuff going on.
    I was taking about the normal ones but as of legion they would also be perfectly inline with other void spawn so would be fine for a void expan.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  7. #6027
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    I was taking about the normal ones but as of legion they would also be perfectly inline with other void spawn so would be fine for a void expan.
    I could see Ethereal factions like the Protectorate or Consortium continue to be used as an opposing force to those void Ethereals in a possible future void expansion. Hell they could be the “racial faction” for playable Ethereals too.

    I was disappointed a little when they didn’t pop up anywhere in Legion, but they probably didn’t have the time or resources to make two different types of Ethereal models.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
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  8. #6028
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Rafaam who was datamined with a void ethereal model, yes.

    Again, Yrel has only shown up as a villain for maybe 30 minutes in total in all of blizzard media? Versus someone like Rafaam who has been a popular recurring villain throughout Hearthstone…
    Is there any lore connecting Rafaam to Void lords or the void in general?

    Sure, I’m not arguing that a void expansion would be contained purely on Azeroth. But I don’t think you even read anything I said just went full on monkey typewriter.

    I said a light expansion wouldn’t be contained on Azeroth.
    Where else can it go? We're not going to Draenor. If Yrel, Arrakoa and Ogres are fleeing it, there's nothing left there to defend.

    Also we shouldn't forget that Blizzard can bring back this guy as well;



    To lead the Arrakoa and Ogres out of Draenor, and to warn us of Yrel's impending invasion.

  9. #6029
    Herald of the Titans Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Where else can it go? We're not going to Draenor. If Yrel, Arrakoa and Ogres are fleeing it, there's nothing left there to defend.
    Where would the void expansion go that a light expansion wouldn’t?

    Also we shouldn't forget that Blizzard can bring back this guy as well;

    To lead the Arrakoa and Ogres out of Draenor, and to warn us of Yrel's impending invasion.
    Nah he’s dead.
    In the span of 2 years (for us), around 30ish years passed on Draenor and Grommash was an old man when we last saw him.
    Since then, 6-7 years have passed for us, so that’s an additional 90-105 years on Draenor… even if he survived fighting Yrel he’s dead of old age by now.

    (Also how would Grommash be able to leave Draenor? Especially before the Draenei who have flying mechs and space ships)
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
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  10. #6030
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Where would the void expansion go that a light expansion wouldn’t?
    To the void where the void lords are located, or Ka'resh before it was devoured.

    Nah he’s dead.
    In the span of 2 years (for us), around 30ish years passed on Draenor and Grommash was an old man when we last saw him.
    Since then, 6-7 years have passed for us, so that’s an additional 90-105 years on Draenor… even if he survived fighting Yrel he’s dead of old age by now.

    (Also how would Grommash be able to leave Draenor? Especially before the Draenei who have flying mechs and space ships)
    We're talking about time travel and magic. That's the easiest part to work around. The Hellscream that arrives on MU Azeroth could only be a few years older than the version we encountered in BFA.

  11. #6031
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So you honestly think someone (casual or not) playing WoW for 5-10 years is going to view a race that’s been available for play that entire span of time as “alien”?
    Alien as in "not native to Azeroth"? Yes. Especially ones that have been playing for 10 years since they've literally visited their homeworld.

    Alien as in foreign to the player? No, of course not.

  12. #6032
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Alien as in "not native to Azeroth"? Yes. Especially ones that have been playing for 10 years since they've literally visited their homeworld.

    Alien as in foreign to the player? No, of course not.
    Wouldn't they view Orcs the same way, since we also visited the Orc homeworld in that same span of time?

  13. #6033
    Herald of the Titans Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    To the void where the void lords are located, or Ka'resh before it was devoured.
    And a light expansion wouldn’t go to the light where the light lords/pantheon is located?
    And I doubt we’re getting another WoD time travel expansion where we go to a planet before it’s destroyed.


    We're talking about time travel and magic. That's the easiest part to work around. The Hellscream that arrives on MU Azeroth could only be a few years older than the version we encountered in BFA.
    Sounds like lazy writing lol. “Oh uh magic and time travel”
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
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  14. #6034
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Nah he’s dead.
    In the span of 2 years (for us), around 30ish years passed on Draenor and Grommash was an old man when we last saw him.
    Since then, 6-7 years have passed for us, so that’s an additional 90-105 years on Draenor… even if he survived fighting Yrel he’s dead of old age by now.

    (Also how would Grommash be able to leave Draenor? Especially before the Draenei who have flying mechs and space ships)
    I think you misunderstood what happened with Draenor. Draenor during WoD was 30 years in the past in an alternate universe, the Draenor in BfA is the same universe but aligned with the current time on Azeroth, so 30 years later.

  15. #6035
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    And a light expansion wouldn’t go to the light where the light lords/pantheon is located?
    No, because we're not battling the Naaru themselves, we're battling Yrel's army supported by a Naaru.

    In a void expansion, we're literally fighting the void.

    Sounds like lazy writing lol. “Oh uh magic and time travel”
    I'm sure Blizzard can add some spice to it.

  16. #6036
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Wouldn't they view Orcs the same way, since we also visited the Orc homeworld in that same span of time?
    Yes. And they'd be right. That's not an argument in your favour.

  17. #6037
    Herald of the Titans Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    No, because we're not battling the Naaru themselves, we're battling Yrel's army supported by a Naaru.
    This is a very weak premise and wouldn’t be enough to sustain an entire expansion.
    Especially if players want blizzard to keep the same patch cadence & style as Dragonflight.

    Which is what you’d probably say if I said “Oh we’re not battling the Void itself just the Ethereals that are supported by the Void”
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
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  18. #6038
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Yes. And they'd be right. That's not an argument in your favour.
    If the argument is that the Draenei are just as alien as Ethereals because they come from a different world, it certainly does.

  19. #6039
    Wow Varodoc & Teriz worked together to derail the main thread see you in 100 pages

  20. #6040
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    This is a very weak premise and wouldn’t be enough to sustain an entire expansion.
    Especially if players want blizzard to keep the same patch cadence & style as Dragonflight.

    Which is what you’d probably say if I said “Oh we’re not battling the Void itself just the Ethereals that are supported by the Void”
    Why is it a weak premise? Yrel's alignment and her history makes her a compelling villain. The Naaru and a combined Draenei, Orc, Arrakoa, Ogre, and Gromm army make her a formidable threat. Further we have multiple characters in the alliance who wouldn't view her invasion as necessarily a bad thing, and we have multiple characters in the horde and alliance who would be in abject fear of her arrival.

    We can spend the various patches/seasons figuring out what turned her evil, what happened to Draenor, dealing with a fracturing alliance, and using the secrets of Avaloren (if that's the new continent) to find a way to stop her. Along with playable Ogres and Arrakoa whose starting zones can be them escaping from Yrel's army to MU Azeroth.

    Sounds like a solid expansion to me.

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