1. #61621
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Earthen becoming DKs will presumably use the same logic as other Allied Race DKs - i.e. the now-established lore that the current LK is making new DKs occasionally. So there's no issue there.
    .
    Doesn't being a DK require being undead and risen by the LK or or some incredibly powerful DK? How can Earthen be undead in the first place if they're made of stone and aren't even technically living beings?

  2. #61622
    Quote Originally Posted by doledippers View Post
    i dont disagree, but it risks running the issue they had with covenants (one of many, lol) where you might aesthetically want to go with say Venthyr but the Necrolord is better for performance in X content. If they can find a way to strike a good balance then yeah I think having some class fantasy options on top of the gameplay options would be ideal for hero specs
    True, but surely your character is going to have a wide variety of builds with the different combinations of specs. Surely not using the Dark Ranger hero spec isn't going to stop the people rping Dark Rangers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    Doesn't being a DK require being undead and risen by the LK or or some incredibly powerful DK? How can Earthen be undead in the first place if they're made of stone and aren't even technically living beings?
    I don't think it actually requires being undead yourself, if you're open to the idea of peoples RP differing from their character intro sequence, but I'm pretty sure Earthen are alive. They're constructs but they're not like robots; the titan's constructs are infused by anima, just like traditional organic creatures.

    Using Calia as a basis for comparison, undeath is just life with a little bit of shadow taint.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2023-12-18 at 09:55 PM.

  3. #61623
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    Doesn't being a DK require being undead and risen by the LK or or some incredibly powerful DK? How can Earthen be undead in the first place if they're made of stone and aren't even technically living beings?
    You don’t technically need to be undead to be a DK there was a mention of living ones who willingly went to work for arthas in exchange for more power on an old page around wrath release.

    I don’t think they were ever mentioned any where else but the lore has never been contradiction so it would still be canon.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  4. #61624
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    This is brill, Thank you

  5. #61625
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    You don’t technically need to be undead to be a DK there was a mention of living ones who willingly went to work for arthas in exchange for more power on an old page around wrath release.

    I don’t think they were ever mentioned any where else but the lore has never been contradiction so it would still be canon.
    True I guess. I could see them working more or less in sense of being tied to the rune magic which is a overlap of earthen and DKs to begin with. I am not sure we will get that type of elaboration in game but its fun head cannon at least.

  6. #61626
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I was just talking with a friend how Deathbringer will probably have Blood Beasts, because that was Deathbringer Saurfang's whole gimmick.... and it turns out that an entirely different tree gets Blood Beasts. So what the heck is Deathbringer based on? That's like if the Farseer Tree being about Totems instead of Totemic.
    Based on the Hero Talent mapping that was in the upright hand corner of the San'layn tree: Deathbringer is Blood/Frost related stuff and the Rider of the Apocalypse one is for Frost and Unholy.

    All we can do is guess.... Deathbringer could be in relation to Rune Weapons or the Living Weapon... Blood and Frost dk share a common theme to this as Blood DKs have Dancing Rune Blade which gives them a copy of their current weapon and fights along with them along with an increase in Parry while mimicking ever single action they do. While Frost DKs HAD something similar back in Legion with their artifact weapon, the Blades of the Fallen Prince with the Crystalline Swords ability.. they unleash floating swords in the air that impale enemies.

    Rider of the Apocalypse, on the other hand, is a bit harder to figure out.. but it might be more focused on the actual necromancy behind the class. Though we won't know until they reveal it.

  7. #61627
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    Based on the Hero Talent mapping that was in the upright hand corner of the San'layn tree: Deathbringer is Blood/Frost related stuff and the Rider of the Apocalypse one is for Frost and Unholy.

    All we can do is guess.... Deathbringer could be in relation to Rune Weapons or the Living Weapon... Blood and Frost dk share a common theme to this as Blood DKs have Dancing Rune Blade which gives them a copy of their current weapon and fights along with them along with an increase in Parry while mimicking ever single action they do. While Frost DKs HAD something similar back in Legion with their artifact weapon, the Blades of the Fallen Prince with the Crystalline Swords ability.. they unleash floating swords in the air that impale enemies.

    Rider of the Apocalypse, on the other hand, is a bit harder to figure out.. but it might be more focused on the actual necromancy behind the class. Though we won't know until they reveal it.
    I hope Rider gets a DK version of Divine Steed & other Horsemen styled abilities. If the above is the case it seems like Deathbringer should be renamed "Runecarver" or "Runemaster". It's just weird for them to have it called Deathbringer & share no resemblance to the one lore character with that title.

  8. #61628
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    I noticed a mistake in the Hero Talent blog.



    The picture example however shows Colossus as shared between Arms and Fury. I suspect the image is wrong as it shows Slayer as shared between Arms and Protection.

    The same triangle shown at Blizzcon showed Slayer as Arms/Fury and Colossus as Arms/Prot. Just an error in the image here, I'm sure.
    Probably, for the simple reason that Slayer is rather unfitting for Protection.

  9. #61629
    In terms of the hero specs I would of much rather seen the resources put into a class agnostic 4th spec as a "prestige class"

    You want to be a Dark Ranger than congrats, here's the steps for your rogue/hunter/dk to obtain this new spec.

    You want to be a Blademaster here is your steps for your warrior/monk/shaman

    Being more concise and deliberate could of made this way more rewarding than just some random talents you are forced into.

  10. #61630
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I hope Rider gets a DK version of Divine Steed & other Horsemen styled abilities. If the above is the case it seems like Deathbringer should be renamed "Runecarver" or "Runemaster". It's just weird for them to have it called Deathbringer & share no resemblance to the one lore character with that title.
    Well, it isn't runecarving but using living weapons. There was a whole section in Naxxramas that had animated weapons come to life and patrol a section of the Military Wing. The idea of a knight using an animated weapon is something that isn't played around a lot with the Death Knight even though it is built into them and they are the only class that can do it outside of Arcane mages.

    Nobbel87 (aka the guy known for WoW lore on Youtube) did ask this question,
    "Will we dive deeper into the backgrounds of different light wielders, like will we dive deeper into the background of those that follow An’she or the Naaru?"

    Their response is as follows,
    Currently, mostly just the name for the talent system. Might be room for us to explore later to integrate it a bit more into the lore, but right now focused as a secondary talent system.

  11. #61631
    Quote Originally Posted by doledippers View Post
    i dont disagree, but it risks running the issue they had with covenants (one of many, lol) where you might aesthetically want to go with say Venthyr but the Necrolord is better for performance in X content. If they can find a way to strike a good balance then yeah I think having some class fantasy options on top of the gameplay options would be ideal for hero specs
    I feel it'll be easier to balance compared to covenants, at least.

    It's notable that you learn ALL the hero talents in the tree, so there aren't a lot of variables outside of just balancing each one as a whole batch,whereas covenants not only had abilities and soulbinds, but also choice routes within the soulbinds that would make it more difficult to balance combinations. It's like batch balancing of talent suites in TWW compared to combinational balancing of Covenants.

  12. #61632
    Mountain Thane looks a lot more interesting than I thought. Makes me hopeful Enhance/Ele will get some cool looking abilities too.

  13. #61633
    Epic! Merryck's Avatar
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    Is the thread bugged for anyone else. It says there's 3095 pages but I'm stuck in 3082

  14. #61634
    It's pretty clear from the design that Hero Talents' relation to existing archetypes will only ever be incidental. If they think a specific archetype would fit for a spec combination, they will go for it and even design around the archetype but in the significant majority of cases Hero Talents are gameplay only with little relation to lore.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Merryck View Post
    Is the thread bugged for anyone else. It says there's 3095 pages but I'm stuck in 3082
    Some account got deleted

  15. #61635
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    It's pretty clear from the design that Hero Talents' relation to existing archetypes will only ever be incidental. If they think a specific archetype would fit for a spec combination, they will go for it and even design around the archetype but in the significant majority of cases Hero Talents are gameplay only with little relation to lore.
    They did flat out say that, while they would like to incorporate some lore into it.. They primarily just want to get it finished and working ready for the Alpha.

    As for the actual talents trees themselves... I'm already interested in what they have to offer. San'layn might not seem like much, but it may give Blood DKs a boost and DPS while giving Unholy some actual survivability as opposed to just [spam Death Strike and hope you live long enough to kill the mob before you die then use the next Death Strike to regain only a quarter of your health back.]

    But it is one of those things where we won't fully know how good something is unless we test it ourselves.

  16. #61636
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    They did flat out say that, while they would like to incorporate some lore into it.. They primarily just want to get it finished and working ready for the Alpha.

    As for the actual talents trees themselves... I'm already interested in what they have to offer. San'layn might not seem like much, but it may give Blood DKs a boost and DPS while giving Unholy some actual survivability as opposed to just [spam Death Strike and hope you live long enough to kill the mob before you die then use the next Death Strike to regain only a quarter of your health back.]

    But it is one of those things where we won't fully know how good something is unless we test it ourselves.
    Even though i am not a huge Paladin fan, i personally like the lighsmith thing the most. it's something new, not spec defining but some nice bonus that maybe rounds out/diversifies some specs. In general Hero specs are just about what I expected from what we saw at Blizzcon. xcited what comes next.

  17. #61637
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaggler View Post
    Even though i am not a huge Paladin fan, i personally like the lighsmith thing the most. it's something new, not spec defining but some nice bonus that maybe rounds out/diversifies some specs. In general Hero specs are just about what I expected from what we saw at Blizzcon. xcited what comes next.
    Yeah, a talent tree that is entirely based on a targeting reticule ability? Never using it.

  18. #61638
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Earthen becoming DKs will presumably use the same logic as other Allied Race DKs - i.e. the now-established lore that the current LK is making new DKs occasionally. So there's no issue there.
    One problem though. There is no Lich King anymore.

    I know Shadowlands was traumatizing and we all want to forget it, but destruction of the Lich King and Helm of Domination happened literally on The opening cinematic.

  19. #61639
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    One problem though. There is no Lich King anymore.

    I know Shadowlands was traumatizing and we all want to forget it, but destruction of the Lich King and Helm of Domination happened literally on The opening cinematic.
    And? The Helm of Domination was not used to raise undead. It was used to control undead. The Lich King raised undead through Frostmourne, the Plague of Undeath or necromantic rituals.

  20. #61640
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    And? The Helm of Domination was not used to raise undead. It was used to control undead. The Lich King raised undead through Frostmourne, the Plague of Undeath or necromantic rituals.
    This is correct. The classes aren't like superhero origin stories, they're just a meta division of in-universe vocations. Just like Paladin is a magical warrior who's magic flavor is Holyness, the Death Knight is just an armored necromancer or dark spellcaster, and necromancers in-universe aren't necessarily undead.

    And if you insist it's dependent on the Lich King's special items, remember Warcraft 2 death knights had nothing to do with him, note in SoD it appears Paladins & Shaman are getting Death Knight abilities in phase 2 per their Warcraft 3 & 2 depictions, respectively.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2023-12-19 at 11:43 AM.

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