1. #6321
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    so yeah... it's just that art of Yrel could be done better. increasing boobs size (actually drawing SOME boobs there) and reducing her legs size by roughly.... 60%.
    There’s nothing wrong with blizzard making practical armour armour from time to time instead of silly things like judgement which is just a robe with some holy seals we pretend is plate or what ever that goat is wearing that looks like mail and is begging to be gutted.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  2. #6322
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    I think the theory that Iridikron is using The Light was because he was essentially a “mirror” of Neltharion in a way and just because of how he looks.
    Though narratively I think it would be interesting if he was meant to be a mirror of Deathwing, but with the light instead of void.
    Ah yes, to fight being controlled by Order, you embrace the Light, which has the end goal of a completely static universe. Or just deterministic? I can't recall atm which was which, tbh Order and Light have very similar core tenets, just different methods. Similar to Void (annihilation via consumption or madness) and Chaos (annihilation via deconstruction)
    But your duty to Azeroth is not yet complete. More is demanded of you... a price the living cannot pay.

  3. #6323
    I have yet to see a female draenei player in game wearing full armor instead of bikini mog.

    But coming back to yrel - they should make lightforged garrosh her BF, that would be hilarious.

  4. #6324
    That image if Yrel looks a bit weird in terms of anatomy, I agree with that.
    Armors can come in all forms in my opinions, Warcraft and most fantasy is already so unrealistic in many way that these small armor details do not really matter in comparison.
    Last edited by Hellspawn; 2023-05-22 at 07:40 AM.

  5. #6325
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    There are so many better factions/people they could pull from if blizzard really wanted to do a cringey “subvert expectations light bad” expansion.
    I don't mind that plot. I just don't think it is coming next. We have more immediate concerns at this stage in DF. Tyr will soon be back and that should mean we would be engaging with Odyn and the rest of the Keepers which could point to Avaloren. Using that up in 10.3 would imo be moronic though sadly not unexpected; it makes more sense as an expansion or a big part of one. Azshara and/or the pirate fleet are both hinted up all over this xpac as well.
    A Light plot based on Yrel COULD happen with Bronze Flight intervention or alternatively by going full retard on the One Nether concept and have them all board AU Tempest Keep and switch multiverse through the Nether or something similarly mind boggling. And it probably will happen down the line.

  6. #6326
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    A little over a week ago, you didn't believe they would add a 3rd spec to a class mid-expansion.

    Yet here we are.
    and ages ago you said DH will not happen, yet here we are...
    being right ONCE in your life doesnt mean you some arbiter of truth...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Ion did pretty much confirm that there will be more classes in the future, and there really isn't much left outside of the Tinker.
    you said that before evoker, and DH, and monk, maybe even before DK i dont really remember...
    everything is possible, and while i dont mind the idea of tinker, pretending its more likely than literally anything is simply dishonest...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    I’m confused by your point.
    his point is undermining everything that is not tinker related

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    One issue I see with Bards as just that class: would they use an entirely new 'weapon' type, an instrument? After DHs I'd be really against that.
    i think its about time other specs learned how to use warglaives, its not like its solely weapon for DH, guards in silithus have it (or used to, havent been there long time)

  7. #6327
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    i think its about time other specs learned how to use warglaives, its not like its solely weapon for DH, guards in silithus have it (or used to, havent been there long time)
    Night elves have always used them, spellbreakers/spellblades among highborne elves also use them. Heck you could make it an elven racial.

    Imo if we get Bards, the instruments will likely simply be offhands. They will still have a mainhand weapon.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2023-05-22 at 08:33 AM.

  8. #6328
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxan View Post
    I think they will probably try to do both, what you're referring to with the scarlet crusade: a cosmic light vs void expansion using forces on azeroth. Was there a hint that iridikron is making a deal with the light? I heard that somewhere, can't remember though. Void seems to make more sense but idk.
    "Down to earth expansion" means Void vs Light now? Let's have a relaxed expansion for a bit, instead of yet another world ending situation. You can only do it so many times in a row before it loses any meaning.

  9. #6329
    Quote Originally Posted by lanerios View Post
    "Down to earth expansion" means Void vs Light now? Let's have a relaxed expansion for a bit, instead of yet another world ending situation. You can only do it so many times in a row before it loses any meaning.
    Canonically WoW has had world ending crisises every year since Vanilla launched. Only reprieve to this is the time skip between SL and DF.

    Light vs Void endwar happening on Azeroth next year is nothing new to the world at this point.

  10. #6330
    High Overlord RahEndymion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    So here is a concept.
    What if 10.3's zone was in Avaloren with most of the continent hidden. You'd have the raid and everything in a part of a new continent that is OUTSIDE whatever shield is covering that place. The raid would be about preventing Iridikron and/or Murozond from getting inside but at the end of the raid the shield would be damaged and in the pre expansion event we would be taking the shield down.
    I really like this idea.

    Rather than unlock the whole continent in 11.0, I think it would make a shit ton more sense to set up a EK/Kali sized continent, and have that be the basis for multiple expansions where the lore is built and expanded upon and it slowly gets unlocked over time. I know the usual characters will say this would be 'too samey' or something like that but honestly, there is absolutely no reason why you couldn't have more cosmically influenced zones / areas within such a large space. It would give them more room to fully flesh things out too rather than just a spontaneous 'LOOK NEW ISLAND'.

    I know this isn't going to happen because it would make me far too happy.

  11. #6331
    Quote Originally Posted by RahEndymion View Post
    I really like this idea.

    Rather than unlock the whole continent in 11.0, I think it would make a shit ton more sense to set up a EK/Kali sized continent, and have that be the basis for multiple expansions where the lore is built and expanded upon and it slowly gets unlocked over time. I know the usual characters will say this would be 'too samey' or something like that but honestly, there is absolutely no reason why you couldn't have more cosmically influenced zones / areas within such a large space. It would give them more room to fully flesh things out too rather than just a spontaneous 'LOOK NEW ISLAND'.

    I know this isn't going to happen because it would make me far too happy.
    While I don't expect Avaloren to be Kalimdor sized, I would hope it is a large area. Finding plausible reasons to split the continent up while retaining flight would let the final continent be large without forcing them to deliver everything in one go. Start with one big zone, add more at expansion release, have two more locked and available later in the expansion. 7 DF-sized zones would make for a fairly large continent.

  12. #6332
    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    so yeah... it's just that art of Yrel could be done better. increasing boobs size (actually drawing SOME boobs there) and reducing her legs size by roughly.... 60%.
    So, you're suggesting that the smart idea is for someone to wear armor that would be precisely designed to guide a blade down through their chest?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    So here is a concept.
    What if 10.3's zone was in Avaloren with most of the continent hidden. You'd have the raid and everything in a part of a new continent that is OUTSIDE whatever shield is covering that place. The raid would be about preventing Iridikron and/or Murozond from getting inside but at the end of the raid the shield would be damaged and in the pre expansion event we would be taking the shield down.
    I really like this. I second this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RahEndymion View Post
    I really like this idea.

    Rather than unlock the whole continent in 11.0, I think it would make a shit ton more sense to set up a EK/Kali sized continent, and have that be the basis for multiple expansions where the lore is built and expanded upon and it slowly gets unlocked over time. I know the usual characters will say this would be 'too samey' or something like that but honestly, there is absolutely no reason why you couldn't have more cosmically influenced zones / areas within such a large space. It would give them more room to fully flesh things out too rather than just a spontaneous 'LOOK NEW ISLAND'.

    I know this isn't going to happen because it would make me far too happy.
    That is immensely appealing to me. It would allow Blizzard to gradually develop a larger, Vanilla-scale continent from the ground-up while maintaining their usual standards for the scale of a continent at the start of a new expansion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Being a zealot is not the same thing as being a villain. We spent an entire expansion helping build Yrel up to be a leader to the draenei people that her Velen would be proud of, back in Warlords of Draenor. It's unfair to her character to claim she will be an expansion villain (or lieutenant) just because of one singular, brief quest line.

    I mean, I fully believe that Blizzard is capable of doing that, considering how they've destroyed Arthas and made Sylvanas into a "tortured innocent forced to do evil" character in Shadowlands, but it wouldn't change the fact it'd be unfair to her character.
    That's my feeling, as well. It seems grossly nonconstructive to reduce her to a one-dimensional, frothing lunatic whose only objective is to maximize the propagation of her associated Cosmic Force; why not allow her to integrate into the Alliance, giving them a bit more meat? She could serve as a more militant embodiment of the Light, whereas Turalyon could serve as a still-jingoistic but ultimately far more level-headed and diplomatic foil to her.

  13. #6333
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    That's my feeling, as well. It seems grossly nonconstructive to reduce her to a one-dimensional, frothing lunatic whose only objective is to maximize the propagation of her associated Cosmic Force; why not allow her to integrate into the Alliance, giving them a bit more meat? She could serve as a more militant embodiment of the Light, whereas Turalyon could serve as a still-jingoistic but ultimately far more level-headed and diplomatic foil to her.
    One of the things with Yrel being used is that it create an opportunity for parts of Draenei lore to actually be showcased. I am still baffled that after TBC, Wod and Argus in Legion, we still have no idea what the Ata'mal Crystals are and where most of them currently are (with the Argus campaign coming up with an entirely new crystal to power the Xenedar instead). We have no idea what the Draenei did with O'ros body (and given the Naaru lifecycle that should be a pressing concern that could even explain their non-involvement in the War of Thorns; they may well have a soul sucking void bomb in their hands that needs to be contained yesterday after Legion; that's why Auchindoun and the Auchenei were created after all). And after being shown the structure of Draenei society in WoD, we still have not seen it replicated in Azeroth (nor have we seen possibly the most impressive architecture in the game be reused in Azuremyst and elsewhere).
    If Yrel shows up, her foil is Velen, not Turalyon. Turalyon is most likely to join her until she threatens his wife or does something really horrible (and forced conversions probably don't count). Plus Velen's story practically finished in Legion and yet he is still around.

    And here is an issue I see with FOUR of the Six Forces. Forced conversions. Order, Light, Void, Fel and Death all seem able to do this. Void does it by just existing. Fel can do it with ingesting demon blood. Order does the exact same thing with the Halls of Infusion. Death is a weird case; the conversion used on Anduin seemed very involved and took a lot of Zovaal's attention but pretty much every part of SL breaks souls and remolds them for use. Light seems to be by far the most constrained; only Xe'ra has shown the ability to Lightbind after all which means that mass forced conversions by the Light are unlikely. Only Life has so far escaped this trope and that is if we cannot count parasitic infestations by things like the Overgrowth taking over people.
    Yet for some reason the playerbase uses this as a reason to condemn the Light even when almost every other force ALSO does this and does this at a vastly greater scale, especially Void.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2023-05-22 at 10:11 AM.

  14. #6334
    You guys are giving Yrel an immense amount of power. Gul'dan and Lich King levels...and while I submit that such a level is needed to justify creating an antagonist, it's so...Scarlet Crusade.

    If they lean in that direction of bringing her forward they should flip the script and have everyone joining her zealots in opposing a greater evil. This would involve a lot of heavy lifting from the writers that should show some morally gray events...yeah..nevermind.

  15. #6335
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    We experienced one side of the story, at best.
    Which is irrelevant. Blizzard has made it clear that Yrel's force is a threat. They made that clear by having an entire race flee their home world to escape that threat.


    I sincerely doubt Blizzard is going to reach into WoD again just to bring arakkoa and ogres into the playable factions. Especially since the arakkoa don't really lean toward any of the factions. At best, they fit the Horde. None of those two really fit the Alliance.
    The same could have been said of Night Elves or Worgen before they were put into the Alliance.

    And they're not reaching into WoD just to pull out those races. They're reaching into WoD to pull a popular character as an expansion antagonist.


    And it's precisely our story with her in WoD that makes no sense for her to fall into villainy. Again: she's supposed to grow into a competent leader who Velen would be proud of. That was her entire arc in WoD. To say it should be undone because of the story told by one side is... nonsensical.
    You can't see a scenario where someone becomes so fearful of the Void that they believe that the light is the only salvation and everything else needs to be eradicated so that the light dominates everything else? There's real life examples of formerly good people doing exactly what Yrel would be doing via their insane religions convictions. People do evil stuff in the name of religion constantly and throughout history.

    I should remind you that we're talking about the same orcs who waged genocidal war, completely unprovoked, against the draenei. And their leader (at least in Draenor) was the very orc who orchestrated and led the genocide against the draenei. For all we know the conversion might not be coerced despite what one side of the story tells us.
    And the Horde champion experienced Yrel going psycho town themselves. That's Blizzard's way of telling you that yes, that plucky Draenei you knew back in WoD is crazy now.

    A race being "playable' or not does not preclude their leaders (or VIPs) from lying, misrepresenting or exaggerating a story.
    Again, the Horde champion (the player) experienced Yrel being evil first hand.

    So is Thrall, Jaina, Illidan, Malfurion, etc. Being powerful doesn't mean one is a "threat". Again, the side of the story being told in the Mag'har recruitment scenario goes directly against the story being told in WoD if taken at face value.
    They would be a threat if they sought to force others into their religion by the sword. That is what Yrel is doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    You guys are giving Yrel an immense amount of power. Gul'dan and Lich King levels...and while I submit that such a level is needed to justify creating an antagonist, it's so...Scarlet Crusade.

    If they lean in that direction of bringing her forward they should flip the script and have everyone joining her zealots in opposing a greater evil. This would involve a lot of heavy lifting from the writers that should show some morally gray events...yeah..nevermind.
    It's the Naaru (multiple Naaru if the lore is accurate) with their technology and a huge army composed of Draenei, Orcs, and Ogres. That's a pretty significant threat.

    Turalyon, Velen, and the Draenei would be prime candidates for causing fissures within the alliance. As would the light-aligned forsaken within the Horde.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    I mean this is kinda the horde MO since BFA with things like Saurfang agreeing to start the war because the alliance under anduin might wipe them out or Rexxar saying he has to stop Jiana for being like her father when literally all she had done was help the alliance try and stop sylvanas after a genocide.

    The Mag’har being full of it and actually having started the conflict and being the ones destroying the world while the goats just said enough is enough would be in brand.
    Well again, the pressing issue is that we also saw Yrel's zealotry first hand. She gave us no recourse other than conversion, and when we refused, she sent her massive army to attack us. That is an evil act. While the Horde can be viewed as morally shaky at times, the Horde Champion isn't supposed to be. The Horde Champion is supposed to be as noble, moral, and ethical as their Alliance counterpart.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2023-05-22 at 12:14 PM.

  16. #6336
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    There’s nothing wrong with blizzard making practical armour armour from time to time instead of silly things like judgement which is just a robe with some holy seals we pretend is plate or what ever that goat is wearing that looks like mail and is begging to be gutted.
    You mean the scale mail of "please stab me in the gut"?

    Also worth noting that for plate, what is behind it doesn't matter - those are solid metal plates. They don't deform to be form-fitting. Doing that takes an armoursmith and a hammer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    And why do you not count Legion? That should very much count, as it was crucial in Zovaal's plot, especially regarding Argus.
    Because that isn't actually relevant to the point, that being that Zovaal as a character was only introduced with SL. Things were attributed to him after the fact but he wasn't the only option up to that point.

    Not sure where you're even trying to go with the other part. You're just reiterating my point. They weren't established prior to DF, thus proving that isn't a requrement.

  17. #6337
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Night elves have always used them, spellbreakers/spellblades among highborne elves also use them. Heck you could make it an elven racial.
    tbh it should be available to all who could use warglaive of azinoth, so DH, DK, war, rogue, monk

  18. #6338
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Night elves have always used them, spellbreakers/spellblades among highborne elves also use them. Heck you could make it an elven racial.
    A Nightelf Warden spec...yes, I see that making extraordinary sense to me. (Been tossing back and forth with the death knight image I've long had as my "superman" toon, with paladin ranking 2nd. The "Warden" in this regard can make the grade in a more "nature magic" way)

  19. #6339
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    You guys are giving Yrel an immense amount of power. Gul'dan and Lich King levels...and while I submit that such a level is needed to justify creating an antagonist, it's so...Scarlet Crusade.

    If they lean in that direction of bringing her forward they should flip the script and have everyone joining her zealots in opposing a greater evil. This would involve a lot of heavy lifting from the writers that should show some morally gray events...yeah..nevermind.
    Not Yrel. Xe'ra. The older Naaru are supposedly immensely powerful. Xe'ra was only killed by Illidan because she had just woken up after open heart surgery. T'uure could produce enough Light to cover an entire planet and banish a Void Lord; the lore says the same about A'dal and Xe'ra should be stronger than either of them.
    Plus we have seen the level of technology that the Army of Light has access to when there is a pitiful number of them. A massive version of that same army should be a worthy adversary.

    But yeah, I gave a format of how I'd see such an expac and imo first two tiers should be Yrel helping us against a different evil with X.1.5 showing the factions reacting to something extreme happening at the end of the X.1 raid and then last two tiers fighting against Yrel's forces with maybe faction converts in one tier and Yrel and Xe'ra in the last one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    A Nightelf Warden spec...yes, I see that making extraordinary sense to me. (Been tossing back and forth with the death knight image I've long had as my "superman" toon, with paladin ranking 2nd. The "Warden" in this regard can make the grade in a more "nature magic" way)
    Wardens are pretty damn interesting. For an anti-magic unit they use a LOT of weird magic; they have multiple clone and shadow techniques. Imo they are probably a far lesser version of the Night Warrior's power. I could see some of those skills added to Subtlety and having Night Warden work that way.

  20. #6340
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well again, the pressing issue is that we also saw Yrel's zealotry first hand. She gave us no recourse other than conversion, and when we refused, she sent her massive army to attack us. That is an evil act. While the Horde can be viewed as morally shaky at times, the Horde Champion isn't supposed to be. The Horde Champion is supposed to be as noble, moral, and ethical as their Alliance counterpart.
    We see her say the orcs are destroying the world and have to be stopped one way or another, If she were right then stopping the orcs would be no different then fighting the legion or the iron horde where there is no recourse other then standing down or death.

    The horde champion is also the person who can side with sylvanas take part in the war of thorns experiment on POW’s bash trapped humans in the head with shovels, ect. Like even in the maghar quest it has you dealing with rebelling slaves I think, They ain’t moral or ethical.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2023-05-22 at 12:57 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

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