1. #66061
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    They are going to have to radically change some aspects of it because Northrend is very, very similar to chunks of Dragonflight.

    Also Dragonblight will probably have... uh... more going on.
    I don't think radical is necessary.

    Natural progression is fine. Maybe the Crystalsong Forsest has grown into other zones. Nerubians have taken footholds in other lands like Zul'Drak with the decline of the Ice Trolls.

    If there's two zones I would expect to get a major change it would be Icecrown given the SL revelations and Stormpeaks given its Titan-focused nature.

  2. #66062
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Gameplay-wise it seems to me that Remix is entirely about leveling characters fast and collections. I doubt the gameplay will be challenging or compelling in a different way; it is just content scaled to not melt when played by a DF character. We will see when people reach heroic raids and Mythic SoO.

    It's not really even about experiencing MoP, we'll have to wait for MoP classic for that sadly.
    It's really just a more fun way to level characters before the new xpac starts. I'm personally ok with that, never played MoP and this is good enough for me! I also wanted to level a warlock so win-win

  3. #66063
    Quote Originally Posted by Scyth View Post
    It's really just a more fun way to level characters before the new xpac starts. I'm personally ok with that, never played MoP and this is good enough for me! I also wanted to level a warlock so win-win
    That being said, It's causing me to remember MoP had the best hangout vibes of any expansion ever. I'm sure if you find a group of people who want to do the whole thing including the endgame raids it will be a very rewarding experience.

    Also the intro questline reminding us all both the horde & alliance enslaved pandaran civilians. Where did that game go?
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    That isn't right.. Beneath Icecrown is the Forge of Souls.. but even below it is just Nerubian cities.

    Unless that got changed.
    Iridikron's lair is just in the region now known as Northrend, according to the most recent novel. Nobody knows where it is exactly because of the sundering.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2024-04-13 at 02:02 AM.

  4. #66064
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Iridikron's lair is just in the region now known as Northrend, according to the most recent novel. Nobody knows where it is exactly because of the sundering.
    Yeah, but I doubt it's in Icecrown since I'd say around that vicinity is Azjol Nerub around the left side of Dragonblight.

    And they said it was North of Dragonblight.. so it would be either in Storm Peaks or Crystalsong Forest. (Heck it could also be within Zul'Drak's reach as well but we won't know until they actually reveal something.)

    And I'm betting it'll be Storm Peaks since it is the closest to Ulduar. The Titans will return from Ulduar at some point and Iridikron will use his home turf as an established base to launch attacks on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scyth View Post
    Yeah me too. I also like his design more than any of the titans, except Sargeras of course.

    Although I don't think all titans will get killed, I wouldn't mind Iridikron being actually right in wanting them gone. Who knows, he might turn out to be like Illidan lol
    Yeah, I don't think they'll have the titans killed or all of them entirely villain batted like "ORDER GOOD, ANYTHING ELSE IS EVIL!" There has to be a lot more to it than just that. However, I can't forsee Iridikron being the "final boss" the expansion and the whole Saga they're building here.

  5. #66065
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    That isn't right.. Beneath Icecrown is the Forge of Souls.. but even below it is just Nerubian cities.

    Unless that got changed.
    I believe that's actually exactly why people have identified it as being underneath Icecrown, with the idea being that the Nerubians and Faceless Ones infested the existing lair.

    Storm Peaks is possible but I'm not sure there are any mountains that aren't full of titan machinery. Harrowsdeep was turned into a massive trembling volcano that would've destroyed any titan machinery near it, but I guess it's possible they were rebuilt after the fact. We don't really have a good timeline for when the Keepers became more stagnant.

    But there's a line in the book that says Alexstrasza was flying over a tundra which lay between Harrowsdeep and the Broodlands. The Broodlands is the Dragon Isles, and the only tundra we know of in Northrend is the Borean Tundra, which would mean that Harrowsdeep is either Hyjal (being currently the largest mountain in its range) or somewhere that was sunken in the Sundering. My money is on it having been somewhere that was sunken in the Sundering and Iridrikron will raise it from the ocean west of Northrend. It's described as being particularly large and could easily serve as an entire zone.

    At the end of the day, though, the Sundering is such a wildcard that any number of things might've happened to Northrend to skew the landscape. They could put it pretty much anywhere reasonably around Northrend and claim there used to be a tundra between it and the Dragon Isles.

  6. #66066
    Quote Originally Posted by Throren View Post
    his old lair according to the novel was under a mountain just north of Dragonblight
    Which rules out Icecrown on account of it not being a mountain.

  7. #66067
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    My biggest fear with TLT is they are going to think just naturally progressing Northrend is too boring and decide to Cataclysm it.

    And with Metzen back at the helm, I think its a very possible reality. I don't want to see Icecrown turned into a volcano or Grizzley Hills as desert because its "cool".
    It makes perfect sense though. Cata shaped the whole world. Sholozar could be a small underwater zone. Icecrown could have melted into it. Lots of cool stuff. It wont stay the same so thats just wishful thinking on your part.

  8. #66068
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    My biggest fear with TLT is they are going to think just naturally progressing Northrend is too boring and decide to Cataclysm it.

    And with Metzen back at the helm, I think its a very possible reality. I don't want to see Icecrown turned into a volcano or Grizzley Hills as desert because its "cool".
    Likewise, not making major changes to Northrend would be incredibly, incredibly lazy, especially how this would be the second expansion with just recycled locations.

  9. #66069
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Which rules out Icecrown on account of it not being a mountain.
    It's a mountain relative to its surroundings. Glaciers are effectively frozen rivers flowing very slowly downwards, and Icecrown is a giant glacier flowing down into Crystalsong and Scholazar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridiel View Post
    -snip-
    I do have a pet theory that the Dragon Isles were meant to be west of Northrend, rather than east. And that they changed this during development for some reason.
    It makes more sense in terms of proximity to the Nexus in Boreal Tundra, as well as Centuar migration from Kalimdor.

    Maybe this passage in the book is an artifact of that.
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  10. #66070
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    My biggest fear with TLT is they are going to think just naturally progressing Northrend is too boring and decide to Cataclysm it.

    And with Metzen back at the helm, I think its a very possible reality. I don't want to see Icecrown turned into a volcano or Grizzley Hills as desert because its "cool".
    There have to be big changes to the zone from the start, because going to the old Northrend will be just boring and unappealing. This place will be roughly 20y old by the time TLT arrives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Likewise, not making major changes to Northrend would be incredibly, incredibly lazy, especially how this would be the second expansion with just recycled locations.
    How much recycled Midnight gonna be, it remains to be seen. Quel'Thalas itself is too small to support a standard, 4 zones launch, and places like Ghostlands I expect will finally receive a de-undeadification (so a full rework).
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2024-04-13 at 08:33 AM.
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  11. #66071
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Which rules out Icecrown on account of it not being a mountain.
    I'd say that Icecrown is a collection of glaciers. There is a massive valley glacier going through the mountain range as well valley glaciers at different levels notably Sindragosa's Fall but also the area around the weeping quarry, but the zone is surrounded by a mountain range, not by glacial ice. I'd say it is a huge valley depression of the eastward extension of the Storm peaks with Ymirheim's mountain area peaking through. You can see that because the mountain areas of Icecrown have specifically been textures to look like stone while the glacier areas look like packed ice.


    On whether Iridikron's lair could be below Icecrown, we know there is a cavern system that links the area below the Tournament as well as areas below Ymirheim and Icecrown. The fact that the Forge of Souls is beneath Icecrown CItadel is irrelevant; that was built recently and could in fact have been built IN the area of his lair utilizing the existing cavern (which means Iridikron could repurpose it!). And while Nerubians control much of this area, Iridikron definitely had the power to contest part of it from them. Plus the area beneath Storm Peaks is pretty much filled with Titan machinery with locations like Uldis and the Engine of the Makers.

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    On how Northrend might be changed; I think some zones should largely stay the same. I expect Storm Peaks to be massively different with the Keepers having cleaned up the frost covering their machinery and digging out their individual temples. Dragonblight should be completely changed after the attack by Deathwing and N'zoth. I'd assume Freya has fully restored Sholazar and the Lifeblood Pillar. I am not sure Zul'drak should be significantly changed given the Drakkari are largely extinct; I do expect Talanji to have a questline there about either restoring the area under troll power or at least have Zandalari there salvaging artifacts and offering sanctuary to the loa.
    I don't know if I'd want to see a melted Icecrown.

    I'd assume that Northrend would maybe be scaled up slightly and likely have multiple zones joined. I'd expect four aboveground zones made from the existing zones plus one underground zone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    How much recycled Midnight gonna be, it remains to be seen. Quel'Thalas itself is too small to support a standard, 4 zones launch, and places like Ghostlands I expect will finally receive a de-undeadification (so a full rework).
    I think this is the big question for Midnight. It could be scaled up into a proper expansion but if they do that, they have to keep it separate from the rest of EK. But if they do not scale it up, they would end up using multiple EK areas revamped as well which would instantly makes it much less of a Quel'thalas expansion.
    One idea I have is that perhaps the entire expansion area is separate from Azeroth because whatever happens has partially phased it into the Void.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2024-04-13 at 09:00 AM.

  12. #66072
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I'd say that Icecrown is a collection of glaciers. There is a massive valley glacier going through the mountain range as well valley glaciers at different levels notably Sindragosa's Fall but also the area around the weeping quarry, but the zone is surrounded by a mountain range, not by glacial ice. I'd say it is a huge valley depression of the eastward extension of the Storm peaks with Ymirheim's mountain area peaking through. You can see that because the mountain areas of Icecrown have specifically been textures to look like stone while the glacier areas look like packed ice.


    On whether Iridikron's lair could be below Icecrown, we know there is a cavern system that links the area below the Tournament as well as areas below Ymirheim and Icecrown. The fact that the Forge of Souls is beneath Icecrown CItadel is irrelevant; that was built recently and could in fact have been built IN the area of his lair utilizing the existing cavern (which means Iridikron could repurpose it!). And while Nerubians control much of this area, Iridikron definitely had the power to contest part of it from them. Plus the area beneath Storm Peaks is pretty much filled with Titan machinery with locations like Uldis and the Engine of the Makers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    On how Northrend might be changed; I think some zones should largely stay the same. I expect Storm Peaks to be massively different with the Keepers having cleaned up the frost covering their machinery and digging out their individual temples. Dragonblight should be completely changed after the attack by Deathwing and N'zoth. I'd assume Freya has fully restored Sholazar and the Lifeblood Pillar. I am not sure Zul'drak should be significantly changed given the Drakkari are largely extinct; I do expect Talanji to have a questline there about either restoring the area under troll power or at least have Zandalari there salvaging artifacts and offering sanctuary to the loa.
    I don't know if I'd want to see a melted Icecrown.

    I'd assume that Northrend would maybe be scaled up slightly and likely have multiple zones joined. I'd expect four aboveground zones made from the existing zones plus one underground zone.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I think this is the big question for Midnight. It could be scaled up into a proper expansion but if they do that, they have to keep it separate from the rest of EK. But if they do not scale it up, they would end up using multiple EK areas revamped as well which would instantly makes it much less of a Quel'thalas expansion.
    One idea I have is that perhaps the entire expansion area is separate from Azeroth because whatever happens has partially phased it into the Void.
    Another place it could be is Wintergrasp.
    I doubt they will remake it as a PvP zone, and the area is generally pretty boring without that aspect, so maybe it collapses into Harrowsdeep.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  13. #66073
    Quote Originally Posted by Viridiel View Post
    I believe that's actually exactly why people have identified it as being underneath Icecrown, with the idea being that the Nerubians and Faceless Ones infested the existing lair.

    Storm Peaks is possible but I'm not sure there are any mountains that aren't full of titan machinery. Harrowsdeep was turned into a massive trembling volcano that would've destroyed any titan machinery near it, but I guess it's possible they were rebuilt after the fact. We don't really have a good timeline for when the Keepers became more stagnant.

    But there's a line in the book that says Alexstrasza was flying over a tundra which lay between Harrowsdeep and the Broodlands. The Broodlands is the Dragon Isles, and the only tundra we know of in Northrend is the Borean Tundra, which would mean that Harrowsdeep is either Hyjal (being currently the largest mountain in its range) or somewhere that was sunken in the Sundering. My money is on it having been somewhere that was sunken in the Sundering and Iridrikron will raise it from the ocean west of Northrend. It's described as being particularly large and could easily serve as an entire zone.

    At the end of the day, though, the Sundering is such a wildcard that any number of things might've happened to Northrend to skew the landscape. They could put it pretty much anywhere reasonably around Northrend and claim there used to be a tundra between it and the Dragon Isles.
    It also doesn't help that if it'll be like Midnight, they can just add new areas to already existing zones and expand them further. (They even said in interviews that they'll give the zone designers free reign when it comes to Quel'thalas)

    "We’re giving our world builders some free rein to expand. Those areas may be geographically larger than they were. That’ll give them more opportunities to introduce some of the smaller points of interest where you’ll have a culture or a local tribe and give them the ability to have storylines that center on that. We don’t want people to feel like, oh, wait a minute, it’s that same place I know. It’s gonna feel like the same place; it’s just that it is literally going to be a little bit larger than what you’ve experienced. Flight being much more accessible, we need to have a larger landmass for people to be able to explore.” --- John Hight. Source

  14. #66074
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    I wonder if there would be any intersection between Harrowsdeep, the northern reaches of Azjol-Nerub, and Yogg-Saron's body (if it still exists in reality after imprisonment, vaguely unclear on what happened to their mass)?
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  15. #66075
    Quote Originally Posted by Auxis View Post
    I wonder if there would be any intersection between Harrowsdeep, the northern reaches of Azjol-Nerub, and Yogg-Saron's body (if it still exists in reality after imprisonment, vaguely unclear on what happened to their mass)?
    Honestly, it's kind of a back and forth of "Is he still alive or not?"

    In Legion, Brann and Khadgar meet wth Magni in Ulduar and they get attacked by Faceless from an unknown voice, which could be Yogg-Saron's. But in BFA after we beat N'zoth, Magni declares that we freed Azeroth from the grasp of the Old Gods... BUT in Exploring Northrend, Muradin says that Yogg is defeated but his influence still lingers and that his whispers can still be heard across Northrend and Ulduar and that he still remains imprisoned inside Ulduar with his influence contained..

    Honestly, they could probably bring him back for all we know since we didn't actually "destroy" him unlike what happened to C'thun and N'zoth.

  16. #66076
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    Honestly, it's kind of a back and forth of "Is he still alive or not?"

    In Legion, Brann and Khadgar meet wth Magni in Ulduar and they get attacked by Faceless from an unknown voice, which could be Yogg-Saron's. But in BFA after we beat N'zoth, Magni declares that we freed Azeroth from the grasp of the Old Gods... BUT in Exploring Northrend, Muradin says that Yogg is defeated but his influence still lingers and that his whispers can still be heard across Northrend and Ulduar and that he still remains imprisoned inside Ulduar with his influence contained..

    Honestly, they could probably bring him back for all we know since we didn't actually "destroy" him unlike what happened to C'thun and N'zoth.
    Whether he is alive or not, his mass should still be present in some shape or form. Old Gods were massive. E.g. I always assumed that the silithid colonies are just parts of C'thun's body.

  17. #66077
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    Honestly, it's kind of a back and forth of "Is he still alive or not?"

    In Legion, Brann and Khadgar meet wth Magni in Ulduar and they get attacked by Faceless from an unknown voice, which could be Yogg-Saron's. But in BFA after we beat N'zoth, Magni declares that we freed Azeroth from the grasp of the Old Gods... BUT in Exploring Northrend, Muradin says that Yogg is defeated but his influence still lingers and that his whispers can still be heard across Northrend and Ulduar and that he still remains imprisoned inside Ulduar with his influence contained..

    Honestly, they could probably bring him back for all we know since we didn't actually "destroy" him unlike what happened to C'thun and N'zoth.
    Why would you believe anything Magni says? Hasn't he already proven that he is a clown? We don't even know if he was listening to Azeroth or something else for the entire time.

    Besides, Old Gods are like ghosts. Even if you kill their bodies, they still haunt the living world. It's pretty obvious that Yogg-Saron will still be a presence in TLT.
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  18. #66078
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    Honestly, it's kind of a back and forth of "Is he still alive or not?"

    In Legion, Brann and Khadgar meet wth Magni in Ulduar and they get attacked by Faceless from an unknown voice, which could be Yogg-Saron's. But in BFA after we beat N'zoth, Magni declares that we freed Azeroth from the grasp of the Old Gods... BUT in Exploring Northrend, Muradin says that Yogg is defeated but his influence still lingers and that his whispers can still be heard across Northrend and Ulduar and that he still remains imprisoned inside Ulduar with his influence contained..

    Honestly, they could probably bring him back for all we know since we didn't actually "destroy" him unlike what happened to C'thun and N'zoth.
    I dont know how people say "it's kind of a back and forth" when Blizzard outright stated he, along with all the other Old Gods, like it was stated in the game over and over again, is dead at Blizzcon? Like, what will it take to dispell that headcanon?
    Yeah, his influence still lingers, just like Y'shaarjs influence still lingered, and are you honestly gonna tell me he was still alive after the Titans fucked him up?

    And yeah, they can bring them back, I am not saying they can't. Blizzard can bring any dead character back, they could bring Garrosh or Arthas back.

  19. #66079
    I think Maria Hamilton, on the What's Next panel, suggested that the Nerubians are harvesting the black blood of the Old Gods. I guess that implies:

    1. It's the blood of all of them, not just one
    2. They were so massive, they likely covered large areas underneath the surface of the planet (although, interestingly, the hole left behind when Aman'Thul pulled out Y'shaarj wasn't that big... unless his body was positioned in a diagonal line from the surface to the core, or something, which could explain why so much Azerite came out)
    3. They're definitely dead (didn't Terran Gregory say this at BlizzCon?)

  20. #66080
    Best case, Quel'thalas and Northrend will be completely created anew, similar to Draenor, while the old versions remain available via Zidormi or (time) portals, so that the old quests etc. are preserved.

    That allows for sweeping changes to the landscape that might not work with simply phasing, no old NPCs standing around.


    Quel'thalas zones will definitely be changed and likely enlarged per that mentioned interview. Quel'Danas will be moved closer to the mainland, about the distance of the Forbidden Reach to the Dragon Isles.

    For TLT's Northrend:
    • merge Borean Tundra with Sholazar
    • Wintergrasp is now a subzone of Dragonblight, which could use a new name anyway
    • Storm Peaks is extended by an overworld version of Ulduar, maybe that's the main hub city, depending on our standing with the Keepers at the time
    • Howling Fjord, Grizzly Hills and Zul'Drak would need relevance for the plot to justify not merging them into one zone
    • plus of course new areas like Harrowsdeep or Azjol'Nerub
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