1. #69001
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    IMO:

    - Let Horde control Kalimdor.
    - Let Alliance control the Eastern Kingdoms.

    - Silvermoon and Mount Hyjal are two neutral hubs where people from all over Azeroth gather. Still majority control by Night Elves and Blood Elves though.

    - Various guerilla fighters ignore the armistice and keep fighting over territory they've lost. Like those Night Elves we found on SoD. So there's still some conflict in Ashenvale, for example.

    - Draenei and Forsaken move elsewhere.
    That was Sylvanas' plan & it was not received well, especially by the Night Elf population.

  2. #69002
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    IMO:

    - Let Horde control Kalimdor.
    - Let Alliance control the Eastern Kingdoms.

    - Silvermoon and Mount Hyjal are two neutral hubs where people from all over Azeroth gather. Still majority control by Night Elves and Blood Elves though.

    - Various guerilla fighters ignore the armistice and keep fighting over territory they've lost. Like those Night Elves we found on SoD. So there's still some conflict in Ashenvale, for example.

    - Draenei and Forsaken move elsewhere.
    For me the best outcome would be to completely remove the faction barriers and then proceed with the story with each political unit being separate and able to form new alliances as needed. Throw in a timeskip after TLT so that the factions can effectively disolve. Give flexibility to the story.

  3. #69003
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    Why should Alliance even get something from Midnight? Horde get shit from Sl-df-tww, so its not that uncommon.
    It's not about "should", it's about what's already implied or makes sense. Ion said Turalyon will do stuff in midnight, and they're setting up Alleria as a main character in the previous expansion (also there's some stuff with magister umbric for the void elves), so they're probably having some protagonism in midnight as well. Draenei could be loosely connected with the whole "light vs shadow" stuff Velen has been saying for years, but that could be scrapped just like orcs got ignored in legion. NE could play a role as well as part of the "elf unification" but I easily see those out of the picture.

    From the horde we know we're getting goblin stuff in TWW, maybe some troll stuff with harronir, although they look closer to NE thematically and physically, amani stuff in midnight for sure and of course BE.

    TLT is a bit harder to predict. Titans and ulduar are related directly to dwarves, gnomes and humans of course, but we could get some taunka and drakkari troll stuff.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    For me the best outcome would be to completely remove the faction barriers and then proceed with the story with each political unit being separate and able to form new alliances as needed. Throw in a timeskip after TLT so that the factions can effectively disolve. Give flexibility to the story.
    Factions don't need to dissolve, just remove gameplay barriers and make every player be able to gain reputation with all races and visit all capitals just like you can do with the ones from your faction. You can still be affiliated to the alliance/horde in lore and have some exclusive flavour text/quests. This way they can remove elves from the horde in lore and make night elves and undead independent factions that can ally with the others when needed.

  4. #69004
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    IMO:

    - Let Horde control Kalimdor.
    - Let Alliance control the Eastern Kingdoms.

    - Silvermoon and Mount Hyjal are two neutral hubs where people from all over Azeroth gather. Still majority control by Night Elves and Blood Elves though.

    - Various guerilla fighters ignore the armistice and keep fighting over territory they've lost. Like those Night Elves we found on SoD. So there's still some conflict in Ashenvale, for example.

    - Draenei and Forsaken move elsewhere.
    giving kalimdor to the horde would cause a meltdown. bal'ameth was scrapped as new night elf capital because that would mean night elves would lose their ancestral home

  5. #69005
    Quote Originally Posted by Reive View Post
    giving kalimdor to the horde would cause a meltdown. bal'ameth was scrapped as new night elf capital because that would mean night elves would lose their ancestral home
    Darnassus was only their home for 30 years. They moved away from Hyjal because literally no reason.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2024-04-28 at 07:31 PM.

  6. #69006
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Darnassus was only their home for 30 years. They moved away from Hyjal because literally no reason.
    yeah but people on twitter were fucking pissed. sometimes i wish the devs would stick to their writing no matter if good or bad

  7. #69007
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    I'd welcome a full removal of faction barriers and have each individual nation/faction act on their own political interest.

    I don't think the horde and alliance need to be necessarily dissolved though, it might caused a community meltdown tbh.
    But the role they play as these 2 all encompassing political factions really needs to be lessened.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  8. #69008
    Quote Originally Posted by Raetary View Post
    I'd welcome a full removal of faction barriers and have each individual nation/faction act as their own political interest.

    I don't think the horde and alliance need to be necessarily dissolved though, it might caused a community meltdown tbh.
    But the role they play as these 2 all encompassing political factions really needs to be lessened.
    i feel the opposite should happen. factions should matter again. the setting has gotten boring since they stopped adding (even as subplot) faction conflict between horde and alliance

  9. #69009
    Quote Originally Posted by allegrian View Post
    It's not about "should", it's about what's already implied or makes sense. Ion said Turalyon will do stuff in midnight, and they're setting up Alleria as a main character in the previous expansion (also there's some stuff with magister umbric for the void elves), so they're probably having some protagonism in midnight as well. Draenei could be loosely connected with the whole "light vs shadow" stuff Velen has been saying for years, but that could be scrapped just like orcs got ignored in legion. NE could play a role as well as part of the "elf unification" but I easily see those out of the picture.

    From the horde we know we're getting goblin stuff in TWW, maybe some troll stuff with harronir, although they look closer to NE thematically and physically, amani stuff in midnight for sure and of course BE.

    TLT is a bit harder to predict. Titans and ulduar are related directly to dwarves, gnomes and humans of course, but we could get some taunka and drakkari troll stuff.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Factions don't need to dissolve, just remove gameplay barriers and make every player be able to gain reputation with all races and visit all capitals just like you can do with the ones from your faction. You can still be affiliated to the alliance/horde in lore and have some exclusive flavour text/quests. This way they can remove elves from the horde in lore and make night elves and undead independent factions that can ally with the others when needed.
    If sometimes in a future we get stiry with Rokhan, Zekhan and Talanji as main characters - that would do. But given current iteration of devs - 0 or around 0 Horde-aligned characters is a norm from now forwards.
    So no trolls, no taurens aside Baine, no forsaken, no orcs aside Thrall

  10. #69010
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    If sometimes in a future we get stiry with Rokhan, Zekhan and Talanji as main characters - that would do. But given current iteration of devs - 0 or around 0 Horde-aligned characters is a norm from now forwards.
    So no trolls, no taurens aside Baine, no forsaken, no orcs aside Thrall
    A problem they have is the need to always create new races instead of focusing on old ones. We could have had Tauren caravans instead of centaurs, who just settled in ohnara after the isles reawakening and learning about their culture, instead of plot hole centaur that are hard to explain being there and being active and well during 10.000 years of living in a "frozen/dead" island.

    TWW are also focusing on dwarves and humans... By creating race copies from them that have been hiding for millenia somehow, instead of revamping zones for playable dwarves and humans. Suramar was also a copy of the blood elf story.

    The problem with darkspear is that they are the least interesting troll tribe from a lore and worldbuilding perspective, while there are lots of other tribes with their own zones, cities, dungeons...

  11. #69011
    Quote Originally Posted by Reive View Post
    yeah but people on twitter were fucking pissed. sometimes i wish the devs would stick to their writing no matter if good or bad
    I don't believe twitter had any affect on that. At least for the time being, Belameth was always going to be a ceremonial home city, not a functional hub because it would be completely unnecessary.

  12. #69012
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I don't believe twitter had any affect on that. At least for the time being, Belameth was always going to be a ceremonial home city, not a functional hub because it would be completely unnecessary.
    believe me, you're wrong. there is a bunch of people that actively "harasses" the devs to make them change story bits they don't like, and not rarely the devs actually listen to them

  13. #69013
    Quote Originally Posted by Reive View Post
    believe me, you're wrong. there is a bunch of people that actively "harasses" the devs to make them change story bits they don't like, and not rarely the devs actually listen to them
    You're delusional. I'm active on WoW twitter & I've never seen anyone actually arguing they should throw out the new world tree for the sake of rebuilding Darnassus. I've seen people asking for clarification if Darnassus' landmass would be resettled (because apparently Night Elves need to live everywhere) but that's it.

    If you think that means Darnassus' current landmass is going to eventually be the Nelf capital you're also wrong. That island is tiny. The tree made up 90% of its livable surface.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2024-04-28 at 07:59 PM.

  14. #69014
    Quote Originally Posted by Reive View Post
    believe me, you're wrong. there is a bunch of people that actively "harasses" the devs to make them change story bits they don't like, and not rarely the devs actually listen to them
    Some devs are very active on twitter and are part of the circle/echo chamber of the wow-lore twitter users, usually the close circle of the red shirt guy, even if they have less than 2k followers. Some of them know of their influence and demand stuff knowing it will be heard. That circle is very politically correct abd lgtb friendly which fit well with the narrative and overall feel of dragonflight storytelling.

    At this point, the wow forums and mmo champion are irrelevant, twitter is the main channel to voice your concerns about anything in wow so if you get in that circle, your feedback will matter much more.

  15. #69015
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    You're delusional. I'm active on WoW twitter & I've never seen anyone actually arguing they should throw out the new world tree for the sake of rebuilding Darnassus. I've seen people asking for clarification if Darnassus' landmass would be resettled (because apparently Night Elves need to live everywhere) but that's it.
    not rebuild darnassus but using hyjal as new home. bal'ameth was 100% supposed to be the new nelf capital and that was changed during development

    I wonder why
    Last edited by Reive; 2024-04-28 at 08:03 PM.

  16. #69016
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    I feel like people are putting way too much emphasis on twitter.

    As someone who does follow the dataminers and lore nerds on twitter, let me tell you that the wow twitter discourse and the discussions we have in here tend to be almost identical.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  17. #69017
    Quote Originally Posted by Reive View Post
    not rebuild darnassus but using hyjal as new home. bal'ameth was 100% supposed to be the new nelf capital and that was changed during development

    I wonder why
    Bal'ameth is the nelf capital in all the ways that matter. It might have all the functionality of a classic hub when the world revamp is done but it has no reason to have that right now.

  18. #69018
    I just realized that in the "Anduin is Lost" scenario he can die like Varian. Why not? they need to kill someone and this is the ideal candidate. Although it's funny if Anduin dies in a cheap in-game scene.

  19. #69019
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Bal'ameth is the nelf capital in all the ways that matter. It might have all the functionality of a classic hub when the world revamp is done but it has no reason to have that right now.
    https://www.wowhead.com/news/updates...renamed-339034

    NEW DIALOGUE
    Greetings, friend. I am Talar Oaktalon.
    It has been many years since my first voyage to Gilneas. That was a different time for both of our people. A different world, even.
    To think now, after all the suffering both kaldorei and Gilneans have endured, we can make this return journey with no trepidation but merely... tranquil purpose.
    <Talar inhales deeply before exhaling with a smile.>
    Welcome aboard the Moonlit Rose.
    OLD DIALOGUE
    I am excited to sail from Bel'ameth to Gilneas and back.
    In many ways, both the Gilnean and us are alike. Losing a home and then getting a new one, or simply reclaiming that which we had lost can uplift every soul.
    Perhaps one day I will have the time to visit the Greymanes. I hear Tess is the one, how do they say it, pulling the strings in Gilneas now. I am happy that I was able to bring the Greymanes to safety when they needed our help.
    Both our people have suffered enough. May the Rut'theran's Reminiscence bring us ever closer.

    bal'ameth was supposed to be a "new home" for nelves. that's definitely not the case anymore.

  20. #69020
    Quote Originally Posted by Reive View Post
    https://www.wowhead.com/news/updates...renamed-339034

    NEW DIALOGUE
    Greetings, friend. I am Talar Oaktalon.
    It has been many years since my first voyage to Gilneas. That was a different time for both of our people. A different world, even.
    To think now, after all the suffering both kaldorei and Gilneans have endured, we can make this return journey with no trepidation but merely... tranquil purpose.
    <Talar inhales deeply before exhaling with a smile.>
    Welcome aboard the Moonlit Rose.
    OLD DIALOGUE
    I am excited to sail from Bel'ameth to Gilneas and back.
    In many ways, both the Gilnean and us are alike. Losing a home and then getting a new one, or simply reclaiming that which we had lost can uplift every soul.
    Perhaps one day I will have the time to visit the Greymanes. I hear Tess is the one, how do they say it, pulling the strings in Gilneas now. I am happy that I was able to bring the Greymanes to safety when they needed our help.
    Both our people have suffered enough. May the Rut'theran's Reminiscence bring us ever closer.

    bal'ameth was supposed to be a "new home" for nelves. that's definitely not the case anymore.
    What are you even talking about? The only thing that changed here is that the old dialog was terrible. The only contextual change is that it didn't make sense to call Gilneas the Gilnean's "new home." Belameth is the Night Elves' new home. They traded about a hundred nelf souls for this goddamn tree; now they're going to live on it.

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