1. #71761
    I think that people should calm down a little bit about Horde and Alliance being one faction.

    We have always worked together against Azeroth's threaths. Always. WSS seems to be yet the biggest battle that we will have to face so of course we will work together, as it should be.

    After that, though, it is just a matter of time that we start killing each other again. The Arathi Empire could be the perfect reason to increase tensions between factions, as there will be Alliance that would like to ally with this Empire.
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.


  2. #71762
    Alleria being the neutral one is just bad writing with no understanding of her character or her origins.
    We need the neutral characters to balance everything out, but absolutely not the WC 1 / 2 cast.

    But yeah, this is no sign that the Horde and Alliance are going anywhere, especially with that other dialogue.
    It has it's place. This whole bout of dialogue is perfectly Warcraft, and actually gives me some hope that the overall direction will be back on brand again, even if they accidentally screwed up which characters are doing what.

    Also, if you're mad about characters acting racist in a fantasy war game, go play another genre or franchise. This game wasn't for you; stop trying to force it to change.

  3. #71763
    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    His whole schtick back in the day was to go to another planet to save other worlds from destruction by the Horde or later by Legion. You know, because only a white male is capable of leading the Army of Light, and not the thousand-year-old draenei. I was afraid something similar would happen on Khaz Algar, but I later saw a screenshot of his interaction with Geya'rah, so my fears were unfounded.



    Oh yeah, I finally saw it. Now I'm super happy. Since Turalyon is portrayed negatively, they're clearly setting him up to become a villain in Midnight. I don't believe this is just friendly banter between them. The entire questline shows how outdated and incompetent WC2 heroes are with their faction biases. Only Alleria is right when she notes that the Horde and Alliance no longer matter.

    And I hope you're kidding because being overtly racist is not "based".
    Are you forgetting who attacked first? The Orcs invaded from a whole another planet and then Turalyon and co pushed them back and entered their own world to end things for good. They didn't go there to "save" anyone except the people on Azeroth, and they basically sacrificed themselves.

    I don't believe this is just friendly banter between them.
    No one said it is. And reading it, it doesn't even seem anything remotely close to "friendly" banter. Stop trying to find excuses to confirm your irl biases. In WoD the Orcs decided to conquer and enslave even without the Legion's influence. What's your excuse for that?

  4. #71764
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    I think that people should calm down a little bit about Horde and Alliance being one faction.

    We have always worked together against Azeroth's threaths. Always. WSS seems to be yet the biggest battle that we will have to face so of course we will work together, as it should be.

    After that, though, it is just a matter of time that we start killing each other again. The Arathi Empire could be the perfect reason to increase tensions between factions, as there will be Alliance that would like to ally with this Empire.
    The whole faction war thing has been incredibly forced and that poor horse has been long dead and rotting/decomposing yet ppl still beatin the hell outa poor girl

    It's been beyond time that the factions merged or however it ends up being, I thought in BFA they were finally working towards that, but as usual blizz half-asses it and chickens out on making the big decisions

  5. #71765
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Him letting go of it was nonsensical and Turalyon, who's relationship with the Light began at large from deciding he had to purge all orcs, who incidentally also killed his mentor, still disliking orcs is good. It also isn't at all contradictory with being allowed to visit Silvermoon, a city he and the elves helped protect from those very same orcs. The idea that orcs and elves should be treated identically because they're ostensibly part of the same polity makes little sense even more so in the current Horde, which is a hollow husk with no defining racial, cultural or even interest-based reason to exist.

    Not that I expect much to come of this, the overall position of TWW and very likely the saga at large is to go full tilt on the Unifaction until they hit the wall. Having exhausted 'Anduin and friends fight unrelated ghosts in space' and 'post-Unifaction unrelated characters team up in a Hearthstone spin-off' we've moved onto 'Anduin and friends plus the chimeric Unifaction fight baddies on Azeroth' stage of Blizzard relearning the basics of their own franchise. We're still a ways off and a lot of complaining away from them realizing that clashing groups and races is the meat and potatoes of the story. If it assuages you, this below is the actual TWW faction position:

    I wish we knew how she came to this conclusion.

  6. #71766
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    No one said it is. And reading it, it doesn't even seem anything remotely close to "friendly" banter. Stop trying to find excuses to confirm your irl biases. In WoD the Orcs decided to conquer and enslave even without the Legion's influence. What's your excuse for that?
    They definitely don’t like each other but that doesn’t mean they will go crusading on the other. In fact they still worked towards the same exact goal. I find it hilarious that some go and say : “See! He will be fucking evil”

    The dude has maintained peace for five years, that he doesn’t like orcs doesn’t mean shit compared to that. And how in the hell do people expect faction war to reignite now that the saga clearly has far bigger fish to fry than muh humies and orcs bad.

  7. #71767
    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    Oh yeah, I finally saw it. Now I'm super happy. Since Turalyon is portrayed negatively, they're clearly setting him up to become a villain in Midnight.
    Keep dreaming, about this, and many other things.

  8. #71768
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    I wish we knew how she came to this conclusion.
    Probably seeing the bigger picture. She already knew of the Xal threat. By this point I assume she is aware that the song is Azeroth calling for help. "We're in this together as the mortal* peoples of Azeroth" is a reasonable conclusion, although one I'm sure not everyone shares.
    Samin
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashrana View Post
    So, what would be your reaction, if you found out, that come cata release first patch, blizzard were planning to kill everyone by sending a bear through the mail?

  9. #71769
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    The Rumour Tower
    Posts
    3,641
    I'm doing the Isle of Thunder questline on remix right now, and ngl, the Zandalari there peaked at their design, which for some weird reason BfA never really managed to achieve imo. Prolly because they used player gear on the playable Zandalari and we didn't have skirts yet, which is quite a shame.

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  10. #71770
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    After that, though, it is just a matter of time that we start killing each other again. The Arathi Empire could be the perfect reason to increase tensions between factions, as there will be Alliance that would like to ally with this Empire.
    Before Legion, I still had some delusions that I could write fanfic, or at least expansion concepts.
    Had some ideas: shake up the factions by introducing e.g. Naaru and other Light-associated beings offering help against the Burning Legion, so the Paladin-focused races, Humans and Dwarves, Blood Elves, Draenei and a good chunk of the Tauren would form a new faction, with the Orcs, Trolls, Night Elves and most Tauren going "fuck no" (particularly the Orcs not wanting to submit to yet another cosmic force) and forming an independent faction.
    Another was an expansion hook that some alien empire would sent envoys, they had also driven back the Legion from their world, but were quasi-fascist lawful evil, coercing the faction leaders to comply via hostages and other methods, and there'd be a player choice to either side with these oppressors, or join the resistance, all while the Legion is already invading.
    But your duty to Azeroth is not yet complete. More is demanded of you... a price the living cannot pay.

  11. #71771
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Are you forgetting who attacked first? The Orcs invaded from a whole another planet and then Turalyon and co pushed them back and entered their own world to end things for good. They didn't go there to "save" anyone except the people on Azeroth, and they basically sacrificed themselves.
    A crystal chandelier appeared to Turalyon in a vision and urged him to proceed with his decision to "put an end to the orcs' evil forever". Turalyon then agreed that he could not allow the Horde to invade other worlds. His motivation was precisely to save other worlds:

    "We have to stop them," Turalyon stated firmly. "We can't let other, innocent worlds have this unleashed on them. It ends here. On Azeroth. No one else should have to suffer as we have. The Light shines on other worlds than ours, and it needs our help. It will have it."

    "Sir . . . why don't we just let them go? If they have fresh worlds to take, maybe they'll just go away and leave us alone."
    "Even if it were that simple, we can't let that happen. Don't you understand?" Turalyon said. "We have to stop them. We can't save our world at the expense of countless innocent lives!"

    Beyond the Dark Portal, chapter 13
    And how exactly is Geya'rah to blame for her... Wait, I was going to say "father's sins", but Duratan was an honorable man who opposed the Iron Horde. You know what in the end happened to him, right?

  12. #71772
    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    A crystal chandelier appeared to Turalyon in a vision and urged him to proceed with his decision to "put an end to the orcs' evil forever". Turalyon then agreed that he could not allow the Horde to invade other worlds. His motivation was precisely to save other worlds:



    And how exactly is Geya'rah to blame for her... Wait, I was going to say "father's sins", but Duratan was an honorable man who opposed the Iron Horde. You know what in the end happened to him, right?
    You're twisting this a lot into something it isn't. Him wanting to put an end to the Horde so they don't rampage all over the universe is logical? And you've made it clear that for you this is an issue because he is a "white male".

    The fact that you even think talking like this is ok is insane to me.

  13. #71773
    This is getting out of hand

  14. #71774
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    You're twisting this a lot into something it isn't. Him wanting to put an end to the Horde so they don't rampage all over the universe is logical? And you've made it clear that for you this is an issue because he is a "white male".

    The fact that you even think talking like this is ok is insane to me.
    You can practice slavery, commit genocide, destroy the environment with pollution and practice dark magic that focuses on torturing souls but as long as your opponent is white-coded, you are obviously the underdog and victim.

  15. #71775
    Brewmaster Enrif's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,493
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    https://www.wowhead.com/news/dalaran...poilers-341085

    And there we go. I guess you didn’t have to keep my comment pinned for that long
    There is nothing new on the topic. that part about magni was already there in the last alpha phases. Try next time when we get real insight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If we somehow do get a void Hunter class, I’ll be the first one to post in this thread to admit my error.
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    I mean, trying to worm out of the way it's the WORLDSOUL saga... yah. It's Azeroth reaching out, not some light fairy.

  16. #71776
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    You can practice slavery, commit genocide, destroy the environment with pollution and practice dark magic that focuses on torturing souls but as long as your opponent is white-coded, you are obviously the underdog and victim.
    The Alliance to Pandarans in Pandaria. The Alliance to the Trolls historically, The Night elves trying to turn southern Kalimdor into a forest is equally messed up what the Forsaken do, considering ecologically, its not destroyed, its just better suited to the Forsaken specifically. That last thing I assume you're talking about is either warlocks or blood magic, which the Alliance has, not to mention enslaving souls against the natural order was invented by Odyn, a vrykul dogma that evolved into the church of holy light.

    The alliance are European imperialist coded based on how they look and what they do. Given the norms of medieval fantasy & various civilizations trying to survive in this chaotic, magical world, the methodology isn't out of the ordinary for any of the major factions. The core difference between the two factions is that the Alliance are extra judgmental about it. They push their culture on everyone because they believe it's better while the Horde accepts different cultural perspectives. Basically, the Alliance is colonialism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    What's there to dissolve, this is already the end state.
    Tell that to Nato. Personally I don't think the invasion of Ukraine by Russia was the result of Nato existing, but a lot of people insist that's the reason.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2024-05-24 at 01:28 PM.

  17. #71777
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    What's there to dissolve, this is already the end state.
    Seriously, do people not realize we're already post-faction? Shadowlands and Dragonflight are your post-faction stories. Hell, Shadowlands is what the GREATER THREAT crowd wants whether they realize it or not; Azeroth is basically a distraction from their desired story at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    I wish we knew how she came to this conclusion.
    The best part of the faction unity story is that they didn't write it. There's nothing to discuss about it because it didn't happen, you just have to infer your own plot that happened offscreen because they didn't feel like writing it. Defenders of the story always make the argument that the best solutions are the ones where Blizzard has to write as little as humanly possible, so it's not surprising that the story frequently feels like it has huge chunks missing. You're supposed to just assume about half the plot happened offscreen.

  18. #71778
    The one Alleria quote is badly written. Per dev statements the factions aren't going away.

    However, they will not do faction battles, skirmishes or political intrigue until they see the profit in it. BFA probably traumatized the devs as much as it did the players... not even getting into how bad the community was at that time, per the sub chart, it had a very small amount of players.

    If the twitter cabal bullies the devs enough you may see some quest text tweaks, but they aren't going to do two-faction expansions for at least 6 years.

  19. #71779
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    I wish we knew how she came to this conclusion.
    So do I, considering even after returning from space her first order of business was to (rightly) talk shit about orcs and attempt to recruit Bob and company into the Alliance. But the answer, as the answer on all these fronts is literally nothing, as @Murlocos said, she just felt the subliminal signal radiating across the planet and joined the hivemind.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  20. #71780
    "Alleria is the main character of the saga, so have her say everything, even the things Jaina or Magni is better off saying"

    That's it. She's the main character because Windrunner because money, just like how Sylvanas's bizarre psuedo-redemption (THAT Sylvanas died but it doesn't feel like it) was a higher up decision. I wish it wasn't that cynicallyobvious but it is.
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2024-05-24 at 01:34 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •