1. #71841
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Both of the quotes literally said that it has nothing to do with fan feedback? Did you even read the whole quotes before you posted them?
    ???

    Denathrius was saved due to positive feedback from Blizz AND the players, or did you miss the general praise he received in SL? They planned him to be killed in Nathria, but he wasn't. And Bwon role in SL got literally shaped and expanded by "positive fan reaction" from BfA. None of these were due to some prior "big lore plans" Ersula claimed to be.

    So how about that reading comprehension?
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2024-05-24 at 09:46 PM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  2. #71842
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Dudewat? You said "this", then you contradicted him.

    Both of these characters carried on mainly due to reception.

    "Denathrius is voiced by Ray Chase. Blizzard originally planned for Denathrius to die at the end of Castle Nathria, but after being impressed by Chase's voice performance, they decided to keep the character alive so that he could potentially appear again in future storylines."
    So nothing to do with player reception: The character stuck around because the devs liked the actor's performance. A decision made long before players first see Denathrius...like I said. Reading comprehension.

  3. #71843
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    I think this tickles me the most. People insist that this is some modern "woke" pivot but it doesn't even reconcile with that. It's rooted in regressive bubble era bullshit where everyone is treated as identical and there was zero celebration of any cultural differences that the modern zeitgeist wants, whether they succeed with it or not.
    Yes, 'woke' is more correct on this point. Say what you will about blood elf reparations to the Amani or people assmad that tauren don't get their due, but the worldview acknowledges the basic fact of different groups with competing, incompatible interest and the impact of preceding actions. There's a reason that the most politically left author in their stable, Roux, was also the last one to actually portray meaningful cultural distinction and conflict and remember the grievances of component races, while it's largely their older stable who're all out on pushing for world peace and homogenization. The only thing that goes against arguing that a more 'woke' mindset would do well for conflict in the game is that the racial revenge fantasies of the people involved tend to be against pushovers and also lean towards having a defined point of equilibrium, neither of which lend themselves to a narrative of permanent conflict between competing groups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I take two exceptions with that,..
    I generally agree with the premise of both your points, though 'heaps of artistic value' is pushing it. Yes, Warcraft is massively Americanized in so far as the people writing it can conceive only of ideological wars of choice and understand neither resource wars, or ones of territory or ethnicity. Their constructivist view also bleeds into this, which is why their desired endpoint (and that of Starcraft, which manages to be worse even than the current mess) ultimately boil down to everyone assimilating the same values and no more conflict coming out of it. Boiling down conflict to pure good vs. pure evil, which is the only real end point if both groups are ontologically the same and only compete based on belief systems of which one is nakedly correct, is a handicap. This also hurts any anti-war message, which shouldn't be made in the franchise anyway, because casting war as being between good and evil caricatures defuses any real-life applicability.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  4. #71844
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The only thing that goes against arguing that a more 'woke' mindset would do well for conflict in the game is that the racial revenge fantasies of the people involved tend to be against pushovers and also lean towards having a defined point of equilibrium, neither of which lend themselves to a narrative of permanent conflict between competing groups.
    And even then, there's something to be said that I think even that would be received well if the method of them introducing it between Wrath and Cata-era wasn't so awkward and scorched Earth. Pun not intended. You don't even need to like characters that are opposition to conflict: just introduce the catalysts against it without suspending the audience belief over a cliff.

    I don't hate the idea of war, Metzen! I didn't even hate the idea of your Moses boy having to begrudgingly crack skulls almost 20 years ago! I just don't trust y'all to do it right on the logical basis of the established setting.

    Tense, cold war following a soft reboot after Worldsoul Saga let's gooooo

  5. #71845
    Quote Originally Posted by allegrian View Post
    They put bwomsandi in shadowlands for being popular in bfa, they saved denathrius for the same reason. They backtracked from wanting to kill malfurion for ysera permanently in DF and they added the tyrande speech about going back to kalimdor because of twitter whining about night elves leaving their sacred lands.

    And that's only the things we know, many more changes could have happenned internally.
    These changes, and others, are good actually. A SL where Denathrius permadies in the first raid, a BFA which is just a straight worse Mists repeat sans the loyalist questline and a Mists which continues with its intended route of being a Thrall return tour would all be worse than what we actually got.Lines like how the Forsaken are there to 'tirelessly defend the living' are better off in the pits. In turn, DF would be better if it committed to Ysera's return and Malfurion's permanent vacation. The Alex quest was much better than those that ended up being kept and was the most stark portrayal of the Bronze's role made. These things are not points of principle - the lesson isn't 'let Blizzard decide', it's purely one of pushing which things are good and which things aren't and chancing that the loudest lobby group succeeds. For TWW, the next three expansions and beyond, the lobby group going endlessly on about how the removal of factions is a cancer succeeding is the best possible result.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2024-05-24 at 10:28 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  6. #71846
    Epic! Pheraz's Avatar
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    Has this thread become the new general chat or what? I thought I's about speculation of the next xpac
    Zorn | Vynd | Pheraz | Sylwina | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - Plus 20 more...

  7. #71847
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    Has this thread become the new general chat or what? I thought I's about speculation of the next xpac
    This is about that. This is in explicit reference to an explicit statement Alleria makes that indicates the entire potential tone of the next 3 expansions.

    There was never any true guarantee there was going to be no interracial or factional conflict over 3 expacs even if it's a big grand finale. This calls that into question.

  8. #71848
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    As a narrative, Warcraft has heaps of artistic value. It is the story of people doing their best to survive with particular extreme circumstances
    True

    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    created by cosmic forces infinitely more powerful than normal people & long before any of the characters were born. That is what resonates with people.
    Groan zone, boring Bakugan chart bullshit that scrapes the characterization out of everyone and everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    So anyone boiling it down to "Alliance good, Horde bad" is undermining the entire narrative.
    Imo it undermines the narrative to try to frame either faction as good or bad, needless pigeonholing

  9. #71849
    Damn after the changes I think I might actually be stronger than the froggers.

  10. #71850
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Damn after the changes I think I might actually be stronger than the froggers.
    I actually was ok with froggers, was nice to join a raid group and be carried

  11. #71851
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Damn after the changes I think I might actually be stronger than the froggers.
    Unless your gear is also 550 ilvl like them, then no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scyth View Post
    I actually was ok with froggers, was nice to join a raid group and be carried
    That would assume you somehow got into groups without being a frogger.

  12. #71852
    Epic! Merryck's Avatar
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    Why isn't there a way to swap timerunner characters into standard characters early?

  13. #71853
    Quote Originally Posted by Merryck View Post
    Why isn't there a way to swap timerunner characters into standard characters early?
    I'd imagine to prevent degen gameplay akin to what happens with class trials.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    This is about that. This is in explicit reference to an explicit statement Alleria makes that indicates the entire potential tone of the next 3 expansions.

    There was never any true guarantee there was going to be no interracial or factional conflict over 3 expacs even if it's a big grand finale. This calls that into question.
    I more assumed they are talking about the MoP Remix discussion, since that has very literally absolutely nothing to do with expansion speculation, at all.

  14. #71854
    Epic! Merryck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    I'd imagine to prevent degen gameplay akin to what happens with class trials.

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    I more assumed they are talking about the MoP Remix discussion, since that has very literally absolutely nothing to do with expansion speculation, at all.
    I would pay to leave. Nothing about this feels good at max level. It's a miserable gameplay experience where level 20s do 4-5x your damage until your tinker sockets proc. It's the final boss of borrowed power and abysmal scaling. And god the dialogue for the quests is so obnoxiously bad. I'm now realizing how brain dead the writing was before Legion. I just want to unlock my heritage armor now but this character is stuck in Pandaria for the next 3 months.

  15. #71855
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merryck View Post
    I just want to unlock my heritage armor now but this character is stuck in Pandaria for the next 3 months.
    Make a new character, pick the same race as your timerunner, tick the class trial box and you'll be eligible for the heritage quests.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  16. #71856
    I'm only now starting my second character and it's so quick, jesus. A few quests and 1 dungeon run and I'm already lvl 17. Not to mention that most mobs die from 1 hit lol

  17. #71857
    I really wonder if we will see thinks like Remix and Fated seasons during the trilogy. Would people be disappointed if we do? I am sure the most likely answer on what Remix people want next would be Legion.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2024-05-25 at 08:06 AM.

  18. #71858
    Quote Originally Posted by Scyth View Post
    I'm only now starting my second character and it's so quick, jesus. A few quests and 1 dungeon run and I'm already lvl 17. Not to mention that most mobs die from 1 hit lol
    Its pretty nice now. I wouldn't mind if the cloak carried over other stats (even diminished) or more than 100% experience at the start but eh, still leveling like crazy.

  19. #71859
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I really wonder if we will see thinks like Remix and Fated seasons during the trilogy. Would people be disappointed if we do? I am sure the most likely answer on what Remix people want next would be Legion.
    I imagine WoD would be next. It has some of the best levelling zones and the transmogs and mounts are great. Also Garrisons could be a fun distraction for a few months. Legion after that, obviously.

    By that point we'd be into the saga after TWW and I wonder if they'd be willing to do TBC and Wrath. They'd have to tailor the raids to LFR too.

    The ideal progression to me would be MoP (we are here now) > WoD > Legion. Then, Classic zones (1-60) > TBC > Wrath > Cata. Then, BFA > SL > DF.

  20. #71860
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I really wonder if we will see thinks like Remix and Fated seasons during the trilogy. Would people be disappointed if we do? I am sure the most likely answer on what Remix people want next would be Legion.
    Even with the faster expansion cycles, there'll still be expansion downtimer, so i don't see why not.

    Though, with how much of a clusterfuck Remix ended up being, i don't know whether we'll see it again.


    Formerly known as Arafal

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