1. #7221
    One thing that has bothered me so far since completing the 10.1 campaign is that none of the other aspects have met Ysera. Should that not have been something that should have happened by now
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyscale View Post
    But then again, in the story, we're pretty brutal murder machines and not really "strategical assets". Just send us in and we'll murder everything in our way!
    So I guess the solution here is simple - we'll murder everyone.

  2. #7222
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaganite View Post
    One thing that has bothered me so far since completing the 10.1 campaign is that none of the other aspects have met Ysera. Should that not have been something that should have happened by now
    Was indeed weird. Like we gave up Malf for what exactly? There needs to be more story than just Merithra. In particular, there needs to be some story with Alex.
    Also after she broke the blockade, what exactly is staying in this world for? Go back to Ardenweald.

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    Btw this probably interests people here:
    https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...in-patch-1015/

    Heart of the Aspects ready for dragonriding. Also looks damn good.

  3. #7223
    Bloodsail Admiral Darkarath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    You cannot rotate dungeons in and out of M+ that rapidly. People need some time to progress through them and learn them.
    Normal timewalking raids are fun but almost no challenge. There is no progression to be had there. Imo for evergreen content to be worthwhile, it needs to involve EVERYONE. So it needs to have something for most raiders to be able to progress through; picking up old raids in at least a HC difficulty (especially considering that some of the older raids predate difficulties) would let those raiders progress but giving just 4-5 weeks would not be enough time.
    And if you make TW zones, well those zones need to have things to do. The daily system up to MoP rewarded through reputations, not directly.
    And ofc there is the issue with rewards. You can balance a season of rewards between current expac and the timewalking rewards. But if it changes rapidly that means if there is some BiS item from the raid or dungeons and they rotate out, you are done. Either the gear from TW will have to be neutered or it needs to be available for the full season or at least for a substantial part of the season. If X.X.5 patches are the midway point of seasons, they could alternate TW there.
    Current Mythic + system is ok regarding the amount of dungeons, no need to add more there. They need to add more to the current TW heroic difficult, throw raids in there divided in wings. Everybody does heroic TW dungeons, even without further incentive, players would still do that a lot. Everyone is currently involved in TW, except in raids, mostly because It does not have a LFG tool.

    I just do not see the appeal of a TW season, that would last for 5-6 months, when we can have them rotate every month with Timewalking zones.

    Plus I think that players would hate having to progress in two different raids.
    Last edited by Darkarath; 2023-05-29 at 09:54 AM.
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  4. #7224
    Dreadlord Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    That's just how every YouTuber has to operate. If you don't feed the algorithm with bullshit, YouTube will bury your video.
    I get it. I understand why people do it. But I still don't watch it.

    And not every YouTuber operates this way. There's a myriad of smaller channels out there that put out purpose-driven informative videos. Raid guides, class theorycrafting, patch overviews and the like. Even lore and theory videos. I don't watch a lot of YouTube, but I generally go there with a question or topic in mind that I'd like to see addressed. Are there people making a living off of these videos? Very unlikely. But to be quite frank, that's not my problem. And to listen to brain-rot regurgitation that the larger channels bait people into just ensures that these smaller, better channels never have a chance. The algorithm feeds people what others watch. The only way to get it to support better content is to watch better content and ignore the stuff designed to manipulate their audience.

  5. #7225
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    Current Mythic + system is ok regarding the amount of dungeons, no need to add more there. They need to add more to the current TW heroic difficult, throw raids in there divided in wings. Everybody does heroic TW dungeons, even without further incentive, players would still do that a lot. Everyone is currently involved in TW, except in raids, mostly because It does not have a LFG tool.

    I just do not see the appeal of a TW season, thats would last for 5-6 months, when we can have them rotate every month with Timewalking zones.
    I don't know, I've experienced it in ESO which has events placed on past content almost constantly and there these events usually last a full month and they stay very active. If Timewalking includes goals for people you need to actually give them time to achieve those goals. And I am not even sure why people would go to a Timewalking zone if it doesn't have current rewards and content. If you are looking for the cosmetics only, it would be much easier to do the zone outside TW when you have no competition and you can one shot everything, no?
    And does everyone really do TW dungeons? I queue as healer or tank only and I don't get completely instant queues but that's not indicative of much, is it fast for dps?

    As for progressing in multiple raids; I think there is a sizeable portion of the playerbase that gets AotC in the first couple of months and then simply bashes their head on Mythic for months with little to show for it; they either don't have the roster or the skills to do more than the first 2-3 bosses. If you gave them something alternative to progress in, why would they not do it? We have had tiers in the past that had multiple raids and it was fun switching between raids when we hit a wall in one place.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2023-05-29 at 09:51 AM.

  6. #7226
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaganite View Post
    One thing that has bothered me so far since completing the 10.1 campaign is that none of the other aspects have met Ysera. Should that not have been something that should have happened by now
    It has been annoying me as well. A quick quest or even a short cutscene of the others meeting her, or even Alex only would have been enough tbh lol
    Hopefully we get a lot more of her+other Aspects in 10.1.7 and 10.2.

  7. #7227
    Quote Originally Posted by Scyth View Post
    It has been annoying me as well. A quick quest or even a short cutscene of the others meeting her, or even Alex only would have been enough tbh lol
    Hopefully we get a lot more of her+other Aspects in 10.1.7 and 10.2.
    Heck given Wrathion and Sabellian are going to be following Ebyssian around, maybe the rest of the Aspects could get a "court". Kalecgos just got his, maybe a couple could move in with him at the seat (Azuregos for sure, maybe Haleh) and Merithra could have her mother with her as an advisor.

  8. #7228
    Bloodsail Admiral Darkarath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I don't know, I've experienced it in ESO which has events placed on past content almost constantly and there these events usually last a full month and they stay very active. If Timewalking includes goals for people you need to actually give them time to achieve those goals. And I am not even sure why people would go to a Timewalking zone if it doesn't have current rewards and content. If you are looking for the cosmetics only, it would be much easier to do the zone outside TW when you have no competition and you can one shot everything, no?
    And does everyone really do TW dungeons? I queue as healer or tank only and I don't get completely instant queues but that's not indicative of much, is it fast for dps?

    As for progressing in multiple raids; I think there is a sizeable portion of the playerbase that gets AotC in the first couple of months and then simply bashes their head on Mythic for months with little to show for it; they either don't have the roster or the skills to do more than the first 2-3 bosses. If you gave them something alternative to progress in, why would they not do it? We have had tiers in the past that had multiple raids and it was fun switching between raids when we hit a wall in one place.
    People is happy right now, WoW respects their time. They should not add another raid progression that people would feel as mandatory.

    Everybody does TW dungeons. Queue is almost instant, at least for me. TW zones should have new rewards, they should give you more TW currency, and of course currencies that are not so easy to get these days like the Argent Tournament one.
    Last edited by Darkarath; 2023-05-29 at 11:07 AM.
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  9. #7229
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Well Razsageth did escape before we got to the Isles. And the primal storms were happening before as well. So yeah, Alex mostly invited us to solve her mess for her.
    Nah, the invitation predates that. They just kinda overlap.

    And TBC pre-event i mostly remember demons panically trying to run back through the portal while getting utterly slaughtered before they're even fully through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Heck given Wrathion and Sabellian are going to be following Ebyssian around, maybe the rest of the Aspects could get a "court". Kalecgos just got his, maybe a couple could move in with him at the seat (Azuregos for sure, maybe Haleh) and Merithra could have her mother with her as an advisor.
    Pretty sure the other 3 have one already. It's just more of a political thing, so of little interest to us.

    Blue were so decimated they had little need for one.

  10. #7230
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Pretty sure the other 3 have one already. It's just more of a political thing, so of little interest to us.

    Blue were so decimated they had little need for one.
    The Reds in particular absolutely need a similar questline to what the Blues just got to show their actual surviving NPCs. Heck does Alex even have a consort?

    And so far from what I've seen of 10.1.5 it seems it is only Nozdormu, Chromie and Soridormi. No Anachronos yet
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2023-05-29 at 11:11 AM.

  11. #7231
    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheMizAwesome View Post
    Do you guys think there is a chance for mage tower like activity in the next patches?

    I think it would be easy to create boss fights for that type of content, since we deal with time travel stuff and something like that would keep player occupied for a long time.
    10.2 has "open world challenges" in roadmap. What it means no one knows, but if Blizzard calls something challenge, it's usually challenge for most players.

    My dream would be Mage Tower with custom dragon skin for your class (different color for each spec, but you can use them all on your class after DF is over).

  12. #7232
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    My dream would be Mage Tower with custom dragon skin for your class (different color for each spec, but you can use them all on your class after DF is over).
    I can't say i would happy with that, because once they enable the use of your other mounts, i will probably never use DF drakes again.

  13. #7233
    Quote Originally Posted by LemonDemonGirl View Post
    Would be cool to see, but I think eldritch beings with multiple eyes would be TOO close to Void beings.
    BE NOT AFRAID
    Technically-speaking, that wouldn't really be biblically-accurate in itself. The "biblically-accurate angels" meme fails to account for the entirety of the angelic hierarchy. However, I could see a different incarnation of that kind of idea working out well and being sufficiently-distinct from the Old Gods or Void Lords; namely, the highest offices of the Light could be held by entities analogous to the Seraphim. Seraphim already distinctly resemble Naaru in silhouette, so something of this stripe would likely resemble an exceptionally—perhaps nigh-incomprehensibly—grandiose Naaru splayed out in a wider shape with a much larger, perhaps blindly bright, core to simulate the appearance of six wings around a central head or eye.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    There is nothing anthropomorphic about the Naaru. I'd assume that whatever the Naaru came from made them in its image. Another option would be for the Pantheon of Light to be pure sound creatures. The most characteristic thing about the Naaru imo is the chime sounds they made. Take a page out of Tolkien and make the original force incorporeal and musical and then the Prime Naaru are those who gain physical form but in doing so are removed from the pure Light.
    That would be quite interesting. I'm plenty willing to see that implemented.
    Last edited by Le Conceptuel; 2023-05-29 at 11:54 AM.

  14. #7234
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post

    That would be quite interesting. I'm plenty willing to see that implemented.
    If familiar with Illuvatar, the idea on Tolkien was that the creator gave its angels the ability to stay with them in incorporeal unity or explore the physical realm by gaining corporeal form (and effectively be exiled). You could easily do the same with the Naaru; their true form is the SOUND they make and the body is what they gained in order to enter the Physical, keeping them forever out from their original plane but allowing them to explore.

  15. #7235
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    If familiar with Illuvatar, the idea on Tolkien was that the creator gave its angels the ability to stay with them in incorporeal unity or explore the physical realm by gaining corporeal form (and effectively be exiled). You could easily do the same with the Naaru; their true form is the SOUND they make and the body is what they gained in order to enter the Physical, keeping them forever out from their original plane but allowing them to explore.
    I must admit that appeals to me. It would not only constitute a sweet little acknowledgment of the effective grandfather of the genre, it would also call back to the more peculiar traits of the Naaru in a fairly satisfying way.
    Last edited by Le Conceptuel; 2023-05-29 at 12:31 PM.

  16. #7236
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    There is nothing anthropomorphic about the Naaru. I'd assume that whatever the Naaru came from made them in its image. Another option would be for the Pantheon of Light to be pure sound creatures. The most characteristic thing about the Naaru imo is the chime sounds they made. Take a page out of Tolkien and make the original force incorporeal and musical and then the Prime Naaru are those who gain physical form but in doing so are removed from the pure Light.
    Anthropomorphism extends to such things as talking.

    But i think the Light should be rather alien in a very angular, geometric and formulaic way, opposing the Void which is just random attributes and tentacles smashed together without much thought or logic. Pure sound would be impractical on a visual level.

    Crystals actually represent the values of the Light rather well on a structural level.

  17. #7237
    Quote Originally Posted by LemonDemonGirl View Post
    Would be cool to see, but I think eldritch beings with multiple eyes would be TOO close to Void beings.
    BE NOT AFRAID
    Not really. The Void stuff is mostly ripped from Lovecraft, while the Old Testament stuff could be a perfect counter to that, as it's ripped straight out of the Bible and whatnot.

    Besides, we already have new Testament Angel's in the Kyrian, doing something more extreme design wise for the Light and its Pantheon would be perfect. The Naaru already have that Old Testament vibe to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Anthropomorphism extends to such things as talking.

    But i think the Light should be rather alien in a very angular, geometric and formulaic way, opposing the Void which is just random attributes and tentacles smashed together without much thought or logic. Pure sound would be impractical on a visual level.

    Crystals actually represent the values of the Light rather well on a structural level.
    That is a perfect way of viewing it.

  18. #7238
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Not really. The Void stuff is mostly ripped from Lovecraft, while the Old Testament stuff could be a perfect counter to that, as it's ripped straight out of the Bible and whatnot.

    Besides, we already have new Testament Angel's in the Kyrian, doing something more extreme design wise for the Light and its Pantheon would be perfect. The Naaru already have that Old Testament vibe to them.
    The Angelic Hierarchy wasn't dismantled between the Old and New Testaments. Different classes of Angels are distinct in their appearances. The Kyrians and Naaru both aesthetically evoke the appearance of different Angels on the Angelic Hierarchy.
    Last edited by Le Conceptuel; 2023-05-29 at 12:56 PM.

  19. #7239
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Technically-speaking, that wouldn't really be biblically-accurate in itself. The "biblically-accurate angels" meme fails to account for the entirety of the angelic hierarchy. However, I could see a different incarnation of that kind of idea working out well and being sufficiently-distinct from the Old Gods or Void Lords; namely, the highest offices of the Light could be held by entities analogous to the Seraphim. Seraphim already distinctly resemble Naaru in silhouette, so something of this stripe would likely resemble an exceptionally—perhaps nigh-incomprehensibly—grandiose Naaru splayed out in a wider shape with a much larger, perhaps blindly bright, core to simulate the appearance of six wings around a central head or eye.



    That would be quite interesting. I'm plenty willing to see that implemented.
    I imagine the Pantheon of Light could work akin to the Seraphim, or akin to the Divine Council of God. The Light does seem to have more of that Yahweh, holy creation style to it.

    I would simply like it a lot tho if the Pantheon of Light and it's designs were more complex than even the Naaru/the Prime Naaru lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    The Angelic Hierarchy wasn't dismantled between the Old and New Testaments. Different classes of Angels are distinct in their appearances.
    Gotcha, regardless, the Kyrian already embody the typical Angelic style we're most commonly used it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    If familiar with Illuvatar, the idea on Tolkien was that the creator gave its angels the ability to stay with them in incorporeal unity or explore the physical realm by gaining corporeal form (and effectively be exiled). You could easily do the same with the Naaru; their true form is the SOUND they make and the body is what they gained in order to enter the Physical, keeping them forever out from their original plane but allowing them to explore.
    I mean, the Naaru stuff simply seems to be more like the Angels and their ordeals, primarily in that their forms look alien asf, and that their bodies radiant peaceful music and whatnot to both charm and sooth the soul. Honestly, Light and Void each having their own styles and songs and whatnot is most likely inspired or just straight up inherited, since the Progenitors also do things in song and music and whatnot.

  20. #7240
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Anthropomorphism extends to such things as talking.

    But i think the Light should be rather alien in a very angular, geometric and formulaic way, opposing the Void which is just random attributes and tentacles smashed together without much thought or logic. Pure sound would be impractical on a visual level.

    Crystals actually represent the values of the Light rather well on a structural level.
    The naaru don't talk. They communicate telepathically.

    As for pure sound, I suggested that to be their form in the Plane of Light. I see no value in going into the plane of Light. We could perhaps visit Zereth Lumen down the line but why go to the plane?

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