1. #74681
    The Lightbringer Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    This is entirely your opinion.
    No Teriz, the definition of the word “new” isn’t an opinion.

    Wasn’t the Forbidden Reach about the size of a standard zone in Dragonflight? It was added in a minor patch.
    Not even close
    Last edited by Nightshade711; 2024-06-21 at 09:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Chen isn't a Monk
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    what exactly makes Dwarves an underground race?

  2. #74682
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Wouldn't the lore around Undermine being the capital of the Goblin race be an example of lore that states that Goblins are an underground race?
    Not when literally everything else about the race's looks, culture, architecture and settlements contradict that idea. Again: all the goblin settlements are made above ground. They're all in open areas. Goblins build up instead of down into the ground.

    You're putting your own headcanon and bias above the lore shown in the game.

    Undermine is their main settlement and the core of their civilization, and its underground.
    Irrelevant, as explained above. It's the exception to the rule.

    You want an example of an actual underground race? Look at the dwarves. Goblins are as much an underground race as taurens are a technological race.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  3. #74683
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timester View Post
    You know how current lore works, right? And the goblins origin was first written, by Metzen, in Chronicles Vol I.
    Was Undermine mentioned in Chronicles?

  4. #74684
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Just read up on the lore prior to Chronicles.
    Why should we bother with outdated lore that is no longer valid/canon?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    This is entirely your opinion.
    It's not an opinion. That's a fact. The Forbidden Reaches was part of the game and technically accessible (by new evoker players) since the Dragonflight pre-patch.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  5. #74685
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Not
    You want an example of an actual underground race? Look at the dwarves. Goblins are as much an underground race as taurens are a technological race.
    And what exactly makes Dwarves an underground race?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Why should we bother with outdated lore that is no longer valid/canon?
    Because Blizzard has a history of implementing “outdated lore” into the game.


    It's not an opinion. That's a fact. The Forbidden Reaches was part of the game and technically accessible (by new evoker players) since the Dragonflight pre-patch.
    Yet Blizzard called it a new zone. So yes, it is an opinion.

  6. #74686
    The Lightbringer Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yet Blizzard called it a new zone. So yes, it is an opinion.
    Blizzard saying something is “new” doesn’t change the definition of the word.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Chen isn't a Monk
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    what exactly makes Dwarves an underground race?

  7. #74687
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Blizzard saying something is “new” doesn’t change the definition of the word.
    But it shows that they're willing to drop a new zone in a content patch with no accompanying raid.

    Your belief of what constitutes "new" is completely irrelevant.

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    The Lightbringer Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    But it shows that they're willing to drop a new zone in a content patch with no accompanying raid.
    .
    Doesn’t show anything if the zone isn’t new by the very definition of the word.

    But anyways there is no point in arguing this further if you don’t know basic English.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Chen isn't a Monk
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    what exactly makes Dwarves an underground race?

  9. #74689
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I wouldn't hold them to that image being canon....why is there a loading screen connecting Veldrakken & Khaz Algar at all?Wait, do they literally say there is a tunnel going all the way from Undermine to Khaz Algar? I was under the, more realistic, impression they came here in boats or submarines & drilled in from underwater. Considering how long that tunnel would be I would have to assume wherever it comes out in Khaz Algar has an entire civilization of Goblins.

    In that case I can see a deeper Khaz Algar zone being added where the tunnel comes out that is populated with Goblins while the Goblin capital of Undermine being the raid. The closest real life analog is the UK - France chunnel tunnel so you know that that means: Train raid. Raid on a train.
    The map is not literal lmaooo

    It's just pinpointing where we're going from the last expansions location.

  10. #74690
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Doesn’t show anything if the zone isn’t new by the very definition of the word.

    But anyways there is no point in arguing this further if you don’t know basic English.
    I’m not the one who called it a new zone. That would be Blizzard, the folks who actually made the zone, and make the game.

  11. #74691
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Yes, it does. Because before it was just the other races (usually tauren and trolls) wanting to kick goblins out for destroying nature haphazardly. Now we have a goblin (Gazlowe) wanting to do that while showing his kin that there are better ways to do business.
    And even before that, we had a minimum of 3 distinct groups with rather different alignments. Trying to act like it's only polluting goblins and non-polluting goblins is both reductive and dishonest.

  12. #74692
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    And what exactly makes Dwarves an underground race?
    Are you literally being willfully obtuse right now? Do you even read what people write in response to you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    No, that's just your headcanon. There is no lore that states the goblins are an underground race. If goblins were supposed to be an underground race, then their culture, architecture, etc, would reflect that, but none of that do. Dwarves are an actual representation of an underground race as even their buildings on the surface are built down into the ground, or into the sides of mountains. They tend to build down, not up. Y'know, like races used to being underground tend to do?

    Goblins do not display this behavior. In fact, not only none of their settlements are underground, but they're all put in big, wide clearings.
    More and more you prove that you're just doing this in bad faith, not reading what people write, just skimming it for specific things to argue against.

    Because Blizzard has a history of implementing “outdated lore” into the game.
    Such as?
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2024-06-22 at 03:54 PM.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  13. #74693
    The Lightbringer Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Are you literally being willfully obtuse right now? Do you even read what people write in response to you?
    That’s just his default when he has nothing more to argue. I’d move on tbh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Chen isn't a Monk
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    what exactly makes Dwarves an underground race?

  14. #74694
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Are you literally being willfully obtuse right now? Do you even read what people write in response to you?
    Relax. I was simply asking a question.

    Such as?
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Mogul_Razdunk

    He only existed in the "outdated lore" of the RPG until he was brought into BFA.

  15. #74695
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Relax. I was simply asking a question.
    A question that shouldn't have been asked if you actually read what people write in the first place.

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Mogul_Razdunk

    He only existed in the "outdated lore" of the RPG until he was brought into BFA.
    That is not outdated lore. That is just lore. "Outdated lore" is lore that has been superseded by new lore that replaced it.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  16. #74696
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    A question that shouldn't have been asked if you actually read what people write in the first place.
    Rest assured, I did actually read your (inaccurate) statements regarding Goblin and Dwarven lore.

    That is not outdated lore. That is just lore. "Outdated lore" is lore that has been superseded by new lore that replaced it.
    Yet you stated earlier that Goblin lore before Chronicles was outdated lore. Mogul Razdunk would be an example of Goblin lore prior to Chronicles.

    Anyway, none of this is relevant to the topic of this thread, so we'll just have to leave this here.

  17. #74697
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Rest assured, I did actually read your (inaccurate) statements regarding Goblin and Dwarven lore.
    You're welcome to your opinion that I made an inaccurate recount of their lore, but you'd be wrong. Not to mention you haven't backed up your statements about inaccuracies, you just stated them. That's not how it works. You have to back up your claims.

    Yet you stated earlier that Goblin lore before Chronicles was outdated lore.
    I said it's outdated because the new lore from the newer books supersedes the old lore. Razgul's lore was never replaced
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  18. #74698
    What are y’all’s predictions for raid #2, raid #3, and the megadungeon?

    Raid 2 is obviously gonna be tied to the goblins in some way, but the big bad of the raid seems unclear

    Raid 3 will probably have something to do with either Elun’ahir or Beladar. The megadungeon will be the other one

  19. #74699
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telogrus View Post
    What are y’all’s predictions for raid #2, raid #3, and the megadungeon?

    Raid 2 is obviously gonna be tied to the goblins in some way, but the big bad of the raid seems unclear

    Raid 3 will probably have something to do with either Elun’ahir or Beladar. The megadungeon will be the other one
    Raid 2: Goblin raid inside Undermine zone with Gallywix the end boss.

    Megadungeon Silthus with Aqir and titan stuff

    Raid 3: Void invasion. Definitely possible for Beledar to play a role.

  20. #74700
    Over 9000! Golden Yak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telogrus View Post
    What are y’all’s predictions for raid #2, raid #3, and the megadungeon?

    Raid 2 is obviously gonna be tied to the goblins in some way, but the big bad of the raid seems unclear

    Raid 3 will probably have something to do with either Elun’ahir or Beladar. The megadungeon will be the other one
    I want to second an Undermine raid and Ahn'Qiraj megadungeon.

    But for the final raid, I think it will be the Worldsoul itself - somekind of fabulous megastructure enclosing the Worldsoul, where Xal'atath will be trying to infuse some Void/Old God corruption.

    We go right down in there, deep.

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