1. #7581
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    At this point, the Burning Legion is a non-threat. Lacking Sargeras leadership, it is guaranteed to have descended into infighting and accomplishing pretty much nothing.

    Pirates might not be threatening to wipe out the universe, but they'd be a much more immediate and relevant threat than the Legion.
    Denathrius could take over the Legion tbh. His Nathrezim were a core part of the command structure.

  2. #7582
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Denathrius could take over the Legion tbh. His Nathrezim were a core part of the command structure.
    That is what I have been suggesting for awhile. It would continue Denathrius's story and he can get a new look and get revenge on Azeroth for interfering with him and...a "Return of the Legion" kinda vibe. Not that they'd do that though.
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  3. #7583
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Denathrius could take over the Legion tbh. His Nathrezim were a core part of the command structure.
    Or, here's a better idea, we can explore more of the Nether and maybe meet a potential Pantheon of Disorder?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    That is what I have been suggesting for awhile. It would continue Denathrius's story and he can get a new look and get revenge on Azeroth for interfering with him and...a "Return of the Legion" kinda vibe. Not that they'd do that though.
    It could happen. Maybe have the Nathrezim hide at the Ruins of Nathreza or maybe even Xoroth?

  4. #7584
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Denathrius could take over the Legion tbh. His Nathrezim were a core part of the command structure.
    Maybe. I think he lacks the raw power needed to make the Demons respect him, though. He'd probably have better luck with the Void.

    Of course, he could also start up a band of space pirates.

  5. #7585
    I see Denathrius and Azshara both as potentially serving a yet unseen theoretical 7th force.

    For Denathrius it makes sense because this Nathrezim have been able to infiltrate the ranks of more than just one cosmic force.

    For Azshara its within character. She sees herself as the equal as whoever if the most powerful at the time. She went from Queen to Empress. So what's the next step for her? A bonafide goddess?

  6. #7586
    Would you guys prefer that Blizz add a new row of talents to the talent tree in the next xpac, or that Blizz just gives us 10 extra points to our current trees (with obviously there being some tweaks/reworks to existing talents, with maybe a talent or two added to some specs to add more balance/variety ofc)?

    I’d prefer the latter.

  7. #7587
    Quote Originally Posted by Telogrus View Post
    Would you guys prefer that Blizz add a new row of talents to the talent tree in the next xpac, or that Blizz just gives us 10 extra points to our current trees (with obviously there being some tweaks/reworks to existing talents, with maybe a talent or two added to some specs to add more balance/variety ofc)?

    I’d prefer the latter.
    Add an extra row

  8. #7588
    Field Marshal Abraxan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Huh, No, it was pure luck.

    He was also lucky as far as the Old Gods are concerned. He was lucky that the heroes travelled back in time to get the Dragon Soul to destroy Deathwing and prevent the Hour of Twilight; he was lucky that the Heart of Azerite, Magni, and MOTHER snapped the heroes out of N'Zoth's mind-control at the last second. If N'Zoth won, Ny'alotha would have been merged with the Chamber of the Heart (the process had already begun in the final phase of the fight as stated in Encounter journal) and the World-Soul would have fallen to the Void.

    The Jailer couldn't possibly have known for certain that the heroes would defeat Deathwing, Sargeras, and N'Zoth, it was obviously a gamble. Drop the bias, he's not that smart.

    The Jailer was very lucky, he was even lucky that Sylvanas is an idiot who doesn't understand anything. His luck happened to run out in Zereth Mortis.
    Related to your point, another frustrating thing about the jailer, aside from everything else.. his characterization could have been adjusted slightly and greatly improved the story (imo).

    I have no idea why they tried to make him a "master planner" who arranged a perfect -nearly impossible to believe- sequence of events. Planning meticulous sequences of events seems more in-line with the void or the light, which both care a great deal about shaping the flow of events.

    Death doesn't have to plan for anything to achieve its goal, all death has to do is wait. We all die someday.

    Cut the convoluted story beats and retconning. Make the jailer a very simple villain: He has waited and grown more powerful over the decades that we have been funneling mortal souls into the SL with our seemingly bottomless appetite for war. Now he's able to pierce the veil and directly attack Azeroth, to do whatever it was he wanted to do with the world soul.

  9. #7589
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxan View Post
    Related to your point, another frustrating thing about the jailer, aside from everything else.. his characterization could have been adjusted slightly and greatly improved the story (imo).

    I have no idea why they tried to make him a "master planner" who arranged a perfect -nearly impossible to believe- sequence of events. Planning meticulous sequences of events seems more in-line with the void or the light, which both care a great deal about shaping the flow of events.

    Death doesn't have to plan for anything to achieve its goal, all death has to do is wait. We all die someday.

    Cut the convoluted story beats and retconning. Make the jailer a very simple villain: He has waited and grown more powerful over the decades that we have been funneling mortal souls into the SL with our seemingly bottomless appetite for war. Now he's able to pierce the veil and directly attack Azeroth, to do whatever it was he wanted to do with the world soul.
    Zovaal did wait, he was waiting the whole time. He just had agents bring about a conspiracy so he could further set out his influence. He was waiting the whole time beyond that, however.

    As for the Anima stuff, idk if you realize this, but only the worst of the worst souls go the Maw, and if it wasn't bad enough, Azeroth is just 1 planet in the infinite beyond. The amount of Anima that would go to Zovaal would be akin to 1/100ths a droplet of water for the Banished One.

    So no, that alternative wouldn't have helped...at all.

  10. #7590
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Zovaal did wait, he was waiting the whole time. He just had agents bring about a conspiracy so he could further set out his influence. He was waiting the whole time beyond that, however.

    As for the Anima stuff, idk if you realize this, but only the worst of the worst souls go the Maw, and if it wasn't bad enough, Azeroth is just 1 planet in the infinite beyond. The amount of Anima that would go to Zovaal would be akin to 1/100ths a droplet of water for the Banished One.

    So no, that alternative wouldn't have helped...at all.
    Nah I still disagree. He did wait, but he waited for his carefully orchested plan to bear fruit. The emphasis in the game is on how many pieces he put into place, how many events he was behind.

    I think blizzard probably did consider his patience as a key part of his character, like you said - he does wait. But the convoluted plans don't work at all with this characterization.

    And the "azeroth is one planet" stuff is whatever. The jailer already said souls from azeroth have the most "will", or whatever the exact quote is. It's clear azeroth is special.

    Edit - my point being that he doesn't even have to make these grandiose plans, regardless of how long he waits for them to pan out. That doesn't fit the characterization of death. It fits the void/light/order.

  11. #7591
    i hate coming in here now i never see anything patch related anymore lol its always the same people talking about lore an random shit unrelated to the patch feels bad zzzz

  12. #7592
    pirates and elements theme? no way. Its cosmic next time babe

  13. #7593
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxan View Post
    Nah I still disagree. He did wait, but he waited for his carefully orchested plan to bear fruit. The emphasis in the game is on how many pieces he put into place, how many events he was behind.

    I think blizzard probably did consider his patience as a key part of his character, like you said - he does wait. But the convoluted plans don't work at all with this characterization.

    And the "azeroth is one planet" stuff is whatever. The jailer already said souls from azeroth have the most "will", or whatever the exact quote is. It's clear azeroth is special.

    Edit - my point being that he doesn't even have to make these grandiose plans, regardless of how long he waits for them to pan out. That doesn't fit the characterization of death. It fits the void/light/order.
    Did the Jailer say that? I know Azeroth is a world where a lot of things have happened, hence why Anima supplements there are so high, but that's not enough for him to be amped up. Besides, other worlds likely went through a bit also.

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    And the plans can work with it. Just means Zovaal wanted to establish a clear foundation so that, once he starts taking action, his goals will be easier to reach overall.

  14. #7594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeram View Post
    i hate coming in here now i never see anything patch related anymore lol its always the same people talking about lore an random shit unrelated to the patch feels bad zzzz
    Here's my speculation for 10.2:

    primalists want to 'unleash' the emerald dream to overwrite our ordered reality. I think the new zone will be the tree area west of ohnaran planes, after the primalists there successfully bring the dream into/over reality. Or we just go into the dream to stop the primalists there

  15. #7595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Did the Jailer say that? I know Azeroth is a world where a lot of things have happened, hence why Anima supplements there are so high, but that's not enough for him to be amped up. Besides, other worlds likely went through a bit also.

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    And the plans can work with it. Just means Zovaal wanted to establish a clear foundation so that, once he starts taking action, his goals will be easier to reach overall.
    I think in the sylvanas book, based on the wowpedia page. I didn't read sylvanas, so not sure if what wowpedia says is totally accurate:

    He also noticed that out of all the souls he judged, those who came from the world of Azeroth had the greatest potential and strongest wills.[24]

  16. #7596
    I'm surprised people speculate over SL story. It's clearly boring and unrelated

  17. #7597
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxan View Post
    Here's my speculation for 10.2:

    primalists want to 'unleash' the emerald dream to overwrite our ordered reality. I think the new zone will be the tree area west of ohnaran planes, after the primalists there successfully bring the dream into/over reality. Or we just go into the dream to stop the primalists there
    The dream, and the new tree, manifesting on Azeroth is an outcome that we literally helped work towards, and want to happen, and know will happen as per Merithras abd Alex' vision.

    The primalists are the ones that want to invade and destroy it, as they literally did the first time round in the green dragon related quests.
    Iridikron wanting to manifest the dream is also quite contradictory when its a titan-made (at least partially) construct that is anti-thetical to their goal of turning Azeroth back into the primal elemental landscape that it once was and could become again, as we saw in the primalist timeline we visited.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  18. #7598
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxan View Post
    I think in the sylvanas book, based on the wowpedia page. I didn't read sylvanas, so not sure if what wowpedia says is totally accurate:

    He also noticed that out of all the souls he judged, those who came from the world of Azeroth had the greatest potential and strongest wills.[24]
    Let me actually see more into this. This could also be in part with the fact that Azeroth's potential is just that crazy also, so her potential is basically one with her children as a result.

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    But even then, he'd still have to break the machine of Death using pawns, as he wouldn't get many of those souls from Azeroth alone regardless.

  19. #7599
    Field Marshal Abraxan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    The dream, and the new tree, manifesting on Azeroth is an outcome that we literally helped work towards, and want to happen, and know will happen as per Merithras abd Alex' vision.

    The primalists are the ones that want to invade and destroy it, as they literally did the first time round in the green dragon related quests.
    Iridikron wanting to manifest the dream is also quite contradictory when its a titan-made (at least partially) construct that is anti-thetical to their goal of turning Azeroth back into the primal elemental landscape that it once was and could become again, as we saw in the primalist timeline we visited.
    Oh yeah the titans used it as a blueprint/testing ground or right? Not sure why I forgot that. I had been thinking it was like azeroth pre-titan influence.

    Also, I was unclear whether we (night elves) want the tree to come out of the dream, or whether we want the tree to remain in the dream to become their new home.

  20. #7600
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxan View Post
    Oh yeah the titans used it as a blueprint/testing ground or right? Not sure why I forgot that. I had been thinking it was like azeroth pre-titan influence.

    Also, I was unclear whether we (night elves) want the tree to come out of the dream, or whether we want the tree to remain in the dream to become their new home.
    The Tree is basically staying in the Dream rn to mature, so that once it's ready, it can come back to Azeroth as a fully grown World Tree! One that is blessed by both the Winter Queen and Elune!

    And yeah, the Dream was utilized by beings of Order, namely Freya using G'hanir, to attune Azeroth with it, and create many types of Azerothian Blueprints for experimentation and whatnot.

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    The Dream beyond Azeroth's attunement however is a whole other story, and it seems as though, based off implications and certain story beats, that the Dream is most likely Elune's Domain in true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xi Jinping View Post
    I'm surprised people speculate over SL story. It's clearly boring and unrelated
    You can think whatever you like, SL's story is clearly not going anywhere, and it's still affecting the story to this day, and it will continue to affect the story until we deal with this 7th power and whatnot.

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