1. #7701
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    https://www.wowhead.com/news/world-o...e-order-333496

    So the reason the Primalists have no lore in game is because... it was saved for a book? I thought they said they wouldn't be doing this anymore.
    Despite the efforts of the Dragonqueen Alexstrasza and her primal friend, Vyranoth, to preserve peace, both sides slip closer to violence, as dragons are forced to choose a side or be swept up in the growing conflict. With battle lines and allegiances drawn, the war amongst dragonkind shakes the foundation of the world. Both sides realize they will have to make sacrifices to secure the future of their kind, sacrifices that will cascade through the ages.
    Oh, they are definitely setting Vyranoth up to end up neutral or friendly.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  2. #7702
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Looks like Vyranoth will turn sides and become an ally at some point. She's mentioned in that article as "Alexstrasza's primal friend". It's mentioned that both of them tried to work out peace. It also fits the woke agenda so I guess it is all but confirmed.
    Based on the blurb, it seems more like Vyranoth and Alexstrasza used to be friends in the early days after the Aspects were promoted, so to speak, and both working to try to preserve peace and amiability between the new Dragonflights and the primal dissenters who opposed Titanic interference. Obviously, their friendship didn't last and Vyranoth chose her Primalist compatriots over Alexstrasza, based on her later imprisonment and continued opposition today.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  3. #7703
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Empire of Dragons logo was debunked quickly and I remember a specific ultra long post highlighting certain parts of the image and explain why it was fake/bad quality. Somehow people hold this one as "the true one" for quite a while. I will never understand why.
    Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but Bolvar photo leak has also been "debunked" by literally digital artists, who scanned it any way possible to prove it's falsity.

  4. #7704
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    It will get cut and Alex will continue to be a plotted plant who's only interaction with the most pivotal part of her on-screen history will be forgiving the people who did it apropo of nothing in a tie-in book.
    I honestly understand the outrage about this on account of the real-world context, but I do worry that Blizzard will misread "this is perturbing on account of all those people that you enabled being raped in real life" as "this is perturbing because you mention rape exists". I could absolutely imagine Blizzard being tone-deaf enough not to realize that people aren't upset because of the dark content, but because of their own history. I'm quite happy to see a course correction towards something a bit bleaker, but I worry Blizzard's tone-deafness may preempt it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebron View Post
    Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but Bolvar photo leak has also been "debunked" by literally digital artists, who scanned it any way possible to prove it's falsity.
    And I do confess I had a moment like that with the Dracthyr, as I was on a near-lethal dose of copium at the time. I'd hardly fault myself, though, given the incredible shift in design direction.

  5. #7705
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Oh, they are definitely setting Vyranoth up to end up neutral or friendly.
    Yep the description makes it quite obvious. I hate how teasers/trailers/blurbs always reveal/spoil so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Based on the blurb, it seems more like Vyranoth and Alexstrasza used to be friends in the early days after the Aspects were promoted, so to speak, and both working to try to preserve peace and amiability between the new Dragonflights and the primal dissenters who opposed Titanic interference. Obviously, their friendship didn't last and Vyranoth chose her Primalist compatriots over Alexstrasza, based on her later imprisonment and continued opposition today.
    While that is true, we have to remember that Blizzard writing often does not make sense. They easily gloss over large timegaps like this because they are incomprehensible to simple people. Also she could be easily swayed/turn after they lose badly (killing Fyrakk/Iridikron). Or after she sees the deep ends Iridikron is willing to go, she's going to be like "fuck that is too far, I'm out". It's lame story telling, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebron View Post
    Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but Bolvar photo leak has also been "debunked" by literally digital artists, who scanned it any way possible to prove it's falsity.
    I can't remember this. It came out way closer to the reveal and it was quite obvious that "this is it".
    I will not reply to posts that are non-constructive or contain flaming and/or trolling.

  6. #7706
    This may have already been discussed, however - going off the War of the Scaleborn synopsis, it seems Vyranoth is the more peaceful leaning Incarnate.

    Perhaps its likely she will defect this expansion? Whether that means she joins the reoccurring cast of characters going forward, or killed by Iridikron this expansion is another discussion.

  7. #7707
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Worse things having happened in warcraft lore doesn't somehow shield this from any sort of criticism.
    Especially when a lot of the hyper terrible shit really didn't need to happen either.
    those "terrible things that didn't need to happen" are part of what made wow interesting. Dragonflight doesn't have any of those moments and it's the most boring expansion ever made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    This is a throwaway daily where we actively help her rape and enslavement, a character we personally and continually have to deal with.
    This quest, despite its theme and implications, is literally put in the same category of quests where we do random whimsical shit like prevent kid-jaina from polymorphin half the Boralus guard.
    Are you helping the orcs chain her? are you helping he consort with the mating process? No. then you're not "actively" helping her rape and enslavement. the focus of the quest is moving the demon soul to it's right place. what happens to alexstrasza is just one of many consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    It really doesn't take much brain power to recognize why people are upset by this.
    It does tho. i can't understand how people can feel so viscerally upset by a fictional dragon getting raped in a fictional work. it's not the first nor the last work where something brutal happens. people just need to touch grass.

  8. #7708
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebron View Post
    Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but Bolvar photo leak has also been "debunked" by literally digital artists, who scanned it any way possible to prove it's falsity.
    It wasn't really debunked, just had things that seemed off about it pointed out. (like that his body was orange but eyes blue, because it was in the middle of him switching colors, or that there were layering errors; the bolvar image was placed behind the diagonal background bars for the image)

    In fact one of the things that kept it around was that it couldn't be actually debunked. No source could be found for its backgrounds, or the hammer, or the model, much like the Bastion image.

  9. #7709
    Quote Originally Posted by Utsuko View Post
    https://www.wowhead.com/news/three-n...nd-more-333487

    It's very intriguing. The "titan utopia" are supposed to represent titans... in triceratops?
    And these "future robot pets"? tinker teaser?
    Where do you think they come from? From the megadungeon? Or is it hints about the next storylines or maybe Avaloren?
    Could be South Seas? Undermine/Kezan, Tel'Abim, Plunder Isle etc. Would explain the robots and the triceratops could be from a South Seas island. The titan facility Uldaz could be located somewhere in the South Seas too.

  10. #7710
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    It wasn't really debunked, just had things that seemed off about it pointed out. (like that his body was orange but eyes blue, because it was in the middle of him switching colors, or that there were layering errors; the bolvar image was placed behind the diagonal background bars for the image)

    In fact one of the things that kept it around was that it couldn't be actually debunked. No source could be found for its backgrounds, or the hammer, or the model, much like the Bastion image.
    Yeah, yeah I didn't mean it was debunked, since it actually was legit I meant, there were people who made pretty huge effort to point the image wasn't legit, apart from the obvious things that seemed off, like the colors indeed.

  11. #7711
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    https://www.wowhead.com/news/world-o...e-order-333496

    So the reason the Primalists have no lore in game is because... it was saved for a book? I thought they said they wouldn't be doing this anymore.
    I think the implication of what they stated was that only side stuff will be exclusive to books, not core story stuff. So I guess the Primalists are just a small side thing, like gnolls or sand trolls.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  12. #7712
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    It’s not just keeping her locked up though it’s actively using her against her will in multiple ways. If it was just her locked a way for a bit that’s one thing but making us complicate in the things the dragonmaw did to her has to be some of the lowest things in wow.
    I was more trying to say that its not us helping enslave her as she's already enslaved at that point. Its not like we're actually capturing her the first time around. It is, though, us helping keep her enslaved, which isn't much better, I'll admit.

    Honestly I'm not normally one to have issue with dark things (killing Amber for example, and she's a character I particularly liked, too) but this does just feel...much. But at the same time it does show the whole Bronze's "we have to keep the timeline as it is" thing. But that then raises further questions like "so we gotta make sure this happens but you guys can't go back and like, shove the Mag'har orcs from AU Draenor back into the portal?"

    Makes it feel kind of pick-and-choose-y.

    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    Could be South Seas? Undermine/Kezan, Tel'Abim, Plunder Isle etc. Would explain the robots and the triceratops could be from a South Seas island. The titan facility Uldaz could be located somewhere in the South Seas too.
    Again there are time rifts that these are all likely originating from. There's a robot Azeroth, a Titan utopia Azeroth, etc. I wouldn't look overly much into it.

    And as for the book, if nothing else I dig the artwork.

  13. #7713
    Quote Originally Posted by Zebir95 View Post
    those "terrible things that didn't need to happen" are part of what made wow interesting. Dragonflight doesn't have any of those moments and it's the most boring expansion ever made.



    Are you helping the orcs chain her? are you helping he consort with the mating process? No. then you're not "actively" helping her rape and enslavement. the focus of the quest is moving the demon soul to it's right place. what happens to alexstrasza is just one of many consequences



    It does tho. i can't understand how people can feel so viscerally upset by a fictional dragon getting raped in a fictional work. it's not the first nor the last work where something brutal happens. people just need to touch grass.
    It should also be considered that the whole basic concept of these quests is that this stuff does in fact need to happen.

    Jaina just unconcious of the consequences turning people into sheep might seem whimsical, but only if you don't consider the deeper consequences of turning a human into a sheep. There's no indication it's just temporary.

  14. #7714
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    I was more trying to say that its not us helping enslave her as she's already enslaved at that point. Its not like we're actually capturing her the first time around. It is, though, us helping keep her enslaved, which isn't much better, I'll admit.

    Honestly I'm not normally one to have issue with dark things (killing Amber for example, and she's a character I particularly liked, too) but this does just feel...much. But at the same time it does show the whole Bronze's "we have to keep the timeline as it is" thing. But that then raises further questions like "so we gotta make sure this happens but you guys can't go back and like, shove the Mag'har orcs from AU Draenor back into the portal?"

    Makes it feel kind of pick-and-choose-y.
    Their charge is to prevent changes to the main timeline's past. Not the present or future. AU orcs coming over had no impact on the past.

    In fact, they'd now have to stop you from trying to prevent those events.

  15. #7715
    Quote Originally Posted by Utsuko View Post
    Is that literally the case? Dragonflight: War between Aspects and Primalists.
    For that matter, the whole Alexstrasza thing was literally about getting dragons to use for war.

  16. #7716
    Quote Originally Posted by Zebir95 View Post
    those "terrible things that didn't need to happen" are part of what made wow interesting. Dragonflight doesn't have any of those moments and it's the most boring expansion ever made.



    Are you helping the orcs chain her? are you helping he consort with the mating process? No. then you're not "actively" helping her rape and enslavement. the focus of the quest is moving the demon soul to it's right place. what happens to alexstrasza is just one of many consequences



    It does tho. i can't understand how people can feel so viscerally upset by a fictional dragon getting raped in a fictional work. it's not the first nor the last work where something brutal happens. people just need to touch grass.
    I mean yes? The Dragon Soul was WHY they were able to chain her thus u are helping with that process.

  17. #7717
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    This may have already been discussed, however - going off the War of the Scaleborn synopsis, it seems Vyranoth is the more peaceful leaning Incarnate.

    Perhaps its likely she will defect this expansion? Whether that means she joins the reoccurring cast of characters going forward, or killed by Iridikron this expansion is another discussion.
    The synopsis definitely makes it obvious she at least used to be the more peaceful one out of the 4 Incarnates. However on the poster she is shown fighting Alex, so who knows what happens between them.
    Maybe she learnt something the Aspects were keeping away from them or Iridikron lied to them.

    Would have been nice to get this book before DF though and not almost at the end of the xpac.

  18. #7718
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    The Twitter outrage has reached so massive levels already that Blizz will never again go anywhere near that plot point.

    Will probably cut Grim Batol from Cataclysm Classic at this point.
    I am more in shock that it hasn't been retconned already. But yeah, a Blizzard cave is completely inevitable unless I missed it and they caved already.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Honestly if they had any sense they would swap it and make it so the dragon maw weren’t going to lose the demon soul and we have to go in to make sure it’s destroyed so Alex can then break free and slay the orcs.
    No, that's a completely different vibe. The whole point of a quest like this and why it and the Amber quest being next to quests where you help give Misha to Rexxar and so forth is, likely unintentionally, a very inspired way to sell what defending the timeline actually implies. It wouldn't just involve ensuring things don't get worse, it's just as much making sure things don't go better. There's no way in which Alex's rape going on slightly shorter has knock-on effects, but if your job is to prevent any disruptions, you still can't let it happen. It would be a soul crushing gig unless you get desensitized.

    @Le Conceptuel

    Sadly, both in the response it has gotten thus far from the Twitterati but also in people going "they should cut it, but for different" reasons you've basically condemned the chances of Blizzard dipping their toes into this kind of theme in the near future. If you can't get away with exploring this implication of the setting in a 2 minute sidequest, you would never dare bring anything close in content to the main story.

    Struggle cuddles aside, I'm getting mixed signals with Vyranoth. I bet serious money earlier that she'd turn good, so I'm not surprised they're pushing this, but then again, she seems aware of the void and on board with Iridikron's plan in what we've seen of her character, so either (likely) there's some miscommunication going on or they might end up with her sticking around as an Odyn like pseudo-neutral character to up the roster of recurring side villains. A big ice dragon is a very different vibe in terms of other returnees like Azshara and Denathrius.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2023-06-15 at 07:52 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  19. #7719
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I am more in shock that it hasn't been retconned already. But yeah, a Blizzard cave is completely inevitable unless I missed it and they caved already.
    In my opinion many of these outraged people on twitter are so freakin selfish, acting like they're only ones that something happened to them IRL, so everything has to be their way so they don't feel uncomfortable.

    You have adult people having mental breakdowns over a quest that is fitting and actually shows more painful stuff that bronze dragonflights has to deal with and is faithful to what happened in the past, optional quest that you can skip.

    Like what these people do IRL? sit in their houses allday, thinking that the fictional world and their characters are real?

    Soon WoW will be only this

    Last edited by ImTheMizAwesome; 2023-06-15 at 09:14 AM.

  20. #7720
    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheMizAwesome View Post
    In my opinion many of these outraged people on twitter are so freakin selfish, acting like they're only ones that something happened to them IRL, so everything has to be their way so they don't feel uncomfortable.
    It's pointless to argue with them except for sport, since it's a zero-sum question. Either a story in this genre can include subject matter, in this case rape, like this and treat it like it does everything else or it cannot address it all or when it does prostrate itself in message mongering. The game gradually took the latter route with its own premise - i.e violence and war and it has unversally suffered from it.

    Honestly, that there was even enough devs to get this off the ground and put this quest in is an encouraging sign or would be if I had any hope they're not about to be crucified on a scale-model of Chromie.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2023-06-15 at 10:24 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

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