1. #8241
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    All things are part of their grand design. Also, you must really hate things like Cosmic Inflation, fictional things like the Overvoid, or even creation beliefs of God then, cause the Light usually comes after the fact or is simply just an extention of said ordeal.
    Firstly, for a bit of clarification, I am obviously distinguishing between Light and light. In the instance I would prefer, the Light would be the self-existent being from which everything else springs, like it was described as in Chronicles. I think this would be a bit more interesting because it wouldn't demystify the cosmic forces so much by slotting them into a six-pronged chart of the components the First Ones used to make the universe like the current lore does.

    This is not analogous to saying light should've come first because I'm not saying Light is light. To avoid further confusion, I'll go ahead and use "Pheta" to refer to the self-existent being that the humans of Azeroth call the Light: I'm proposing that Pheta ought to be the self-existent being(s) in place of the First Ones, since the latter's fallibility, familiarity in terms of how their structures work, and the fact that they seemingly had to employ advanced technology to produce the universe all seem very odd and atypical for self-existent beings on which everything else is inherently contingent. This doesn't actually preclude the First Ones from existing, and actually allows for them to have a more particular niche since it puts them below something and gives them a more precise role beyond "titans but so big they made literally everything".

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Also, the First Ones aren't a traditional "alien civilization", but they are beings that wouldn't really fit the term "god/gods" either, as the Gods are their children. We simply just use the term that's given to us, which is just that, Progenitors, or First Ones. Some may even say Architects, Precursors, or Creators. Cause that is what they are.
    This much I am fully aware of. However, I still have difficulty viewing them as anything infallible or even particularly powerful. Insofar as they operate, their fallibility and apparent creative limitations mitigate their capacity and mystique. Of course, this isn't my primary narrative concern, as I'm about to get to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    And the Titans are still the same conceptually. They just always fit that role in regards to Azeroth and our known universe. They never really fit that ancient precursor role beyond that however.
    That is precisely my concern. The First Ones are precisely analogous to the titans, albeit on a larger scale, and that larger scale seems to be most of what differentiates them. They are the other pantheon of inscrutable cosmic beings whose technological wonders underpin everything we know, but these inscrutable cosmic beings did it to the whole universe instead of just one planet. Though this is a distinction in terms of scope, it is not a distinction in terms of their actual role from the perspective of the reader. Because they are only the same thing as something we already knew and loved, but bigger, they offer little of value that the titans didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    The Gods are still the Gods. They are still meant to be worshipped and they are still insanely powerful. The First Ones being a thing doesn't diminish any of that, especially when you consider that in universe, almost no one knows about the First Ones genuinely outside of the Pantheons, the Heroes of Azeroth, and some Brokers.
    Now, this is what helps to really frame my concern in terms of how this will impact the future. The central element of the First Ones problem, and more precisely the core of why I am concerned about their addition, is that they provide nothing that the titans don't, yet do this through conceptually-mitigating all the other cosmic forces and effectively reducing them to cogs in the machine of the super-titans. Rather than add anything, they effectively take away the mystique around the cosmic force just to inflate a concept we already had before to cosmic proportions and retread it.

    I definitely can't see how you could take exploration of the cosmic forces in future expansions as something valuable or interesting if they're nothing more than 3d-printed cogs in the machine the First Ones slapped together, much less after realizing from Shadowlands that it's pretty much impossible for the First Ones to be anything other than (only) one of extremely stupid or outright malevolent. Anything beneath the First Ones are diminished even more than they would be if they were merely natural phenomena because they are now artificial constructs, though I suppose the very introduction of the First Ones highly equivocates the difference between the artificial and natural. This is a level far more direct than intelligent design of natural phenomena, because it manifests as a strictly-technological phenomenon.

    Most prominently, whenever we explore the realm of a cosmic force, we know what to expect: an array of 3d printed false gods, a Zereth behind it, a particular role it plays in the framework of the First Ones, and how the baddie plans to take over/rewrite the universe (presumably through the use of tools left by the titans).

    Yet, in spite of all I've said about how the First Ones will negatively contribute to the lore going forward, we can't get rid of them. As such, here is one proposition to help ease the blow:

    Reveal that Pheta came first. The Shadowlands' denizens elevated the First Ones to the peak of the hierarchy because reaching that point was the objective of the First Ones, not their natural state. The cosmic forces preceded them, but they emerged from Order to enforce their will on the universe and keep it running smoothly. This explains why the Titans are seemingly native to our plane instead of the plane of Order: because the Titans are not the original Pantheon of Order, but instead the ones that replaced them after they fell. Now, you may say, this does seem like it just creates the same issue of retreading the Titans. Although it fixes the other issue, which is that they diminish everything else, you would be correct. So, how do we further distinguish them?

    Well, over time the First Ones fell into hubris. They began to envy Pheta, and decided that they would reorder the universe entirely instead of just keeping the universe and relationship between forces working. This began with the creation of the Shadowlands, which is why their influence is so much more visible there than anywhere else. This also helps to explain why the Shadowlands is such a terrible afterlife (to such an extent that souls can be destroyed there, and are probabilistically far more likely to be destroyed eventually than not, making it more a "second life" than an "afterlife"): it was always designed as nothing more than an anima-extraction scheme, as well as a general error by inferior quasidemiurgic beings. The First Ones were destroyed by the Light or by themselves before they could convert the whole universe like they corrupted death, and became the precursors of Disorder: the tothrezim, which also expands on our knowledge of what precisely oversaw Disorder pre-Sargeras, a question I've seen popping up quite frequently, and which seems to be one of the few parts of the new cosmology I see frequent interest in.

    How would this revelation benefit the narrative going forward? For one, it opens up a new narrative thread with the tothrezim: something they created and his servants, who are now demons themselves, are now loosed upon the universe, and the person keeping them imprisoned—Sargeras—is now out of the picture. It also allows for us to reframe the exploration and narrative role of the First Ones to something new, giving us a new story thread to explore which will give us returns distinct from the returns of learning about the titans. It also opens up the new story threads that would naturally emerge from the disillusionment and horror of learning that the universe has been irrevocably corrupted by a set of evil beings, and that most beings are doomed to go to their soul-grinder unless they fully and unconditionally embrace a cosmic force or just seek to avoid dying forever. This would also obviously be conducive to aligning people with cosmic forces more strongly, and could also give the Forsaken something to do going forward. Finally, it would put all the cosmic forces except Death and Disorder back into obscurity (and the latter would still have plenty going for exploring it, even in lieu of mystique), so we are no longer certain that what we're going to see in exploring them is just an array of 3d printed false gods and a comically-inept structure typically based on inexplicable self-fulfilling prophecies.

    I have written at length about this before: you can read it here if you are interested.

    However, this is all just fanon, and I don't want to end up as one of those single-topic posters that irritate me so in their conduct. As such, I also want to cover how the implications of the First Ones could be explored within the framework CDev intended. This will still diminish the cosmic forces, but it may ease the sting a bit by at least demonstrating acknowledgment of the implications in the writing.

    Firstly, return to my prior observations about how the First Ones are either evil or stupid, or the possibility of people noting that artificial, fallible structures aren't really worthy of worship. Some may worship for power or benefit alone, and may not realize the problem, but those that maintain theological standards (take the Draenei, for instance) may rapidly become disillusioned with what they've been worshiping on false pretenses all along. I could imagine, as I said, a rush towards necromancy or joining the Forsaken to be a particularly fascinating prospect for these people because it's the only way to free yourself from the prison of the First Ones. Some may turn to a kind of pseudognosticism. Alternatively, those who still see the forces as worthy of worship, or at least reverence, may do the other thing that I said and turn to them entirely so that they wouldn't have to go to the Shadowlands when they die.

    Secondly, what produced the First Ones? Are they really self-existent? They violate the law of parsimony, as I said, so it seems difficult to believe that. What does the real self-existent being think of them, if it more like a theistic God than a singularity? This could also contribute to the emergence of the aforementioned pseudognostics.

    As I said, the prospects within the framework we already have aren't the best, but they are existent, and this is where I'd like the exploration of the First Ones to go in the future within the framework of what is realistically-plausible for Blizzard.
    Last edited by Le Conceptuel; 2023-06-29 at 01:38 AM.

  2. #8242
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No. That'd just be a giant ass-pull with absolutely no rhyme or reason to it.
    You mean like BfA and SL?

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    Yrel comes to our draenor
    Finds it destroyed
    Wants revenge
    Comes to Azeroth
    Blames us for all the bad stuff because we just left
    Starts a war

    Turalyon and other paladin groups are seen as untrustworthy and BAM Manduin pops up now with the powers of light and shadow much like the fabled child of light and the void. He reveals he has come to understand all forces good and bad are necessary for the balance and as such he aims to maintain it taking a stand against Yrel.

    Turalyon doesn't like this but sees his wife and goes with it until the scarlet brotherhood appears and assassinated her framing anduin so Turalyon sees him as a traitor and takes defectors with him.

  3. #8243
    The Unstoppable Force Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guro-tchai View Post
    could be - they did use the faction war, Nazjatar and N'zoth in a single expansion. however, that approach doesn't leave a lot of space to develop the themes, which is lamentable. up to you to decide whether Nazjatar and its surroundings deserved a whole expansion of its own.



    arakkoa, ogres and Yrel are from AU Draenor, which was being converted during our visit there back in BfA, in the mag'har recruitment scenario. these people are kinda cool, no wonder people expect them to come to Azeroth if we're getting a Light invasion from Draenor.
    also, i don't think scarlet propaganda ever made it to live servers, but i could be mistaken.
    there's no fixed pattern, as in hints in a prior expansion point directly to the next one or the one after the next. imo, it depends purely on what's happening in the cdev dojo. it's just that we've been getting a reminder about the Light's danger for three expansions in a row, eventually it has to result in something. although it is possible that the idea was partially abandoned.
    I def think Azshara deserved her own expansion. Maybe Nazjatar would only be 1 or 2 zones with other islands and a seafaring expansion. There was just 1 too many cooks in that kitchen. Eithe the faction war or Nzoth needed to go. Ideally there would have been a much smaller focus on faction. The main antagonist would have been Azshara with her releasing Nzoth in the final patch raid. Perhaps Nazjatar would have been a mini continent with only 1 or 2 zones being accessible at launch but a huge patch zone with per palace being unlocked in the final patch.

    But enough about the past. I dont want to derail the thread.

    I do think theres room for 2 themes in an expansion but any more than that starts to become a mess like BFA was.

    Tbh I would want 11.0 to be world revamp(kalimdor and EK) and light bad plot.

    Revamp with basic enemies in 11.0 but slowly the light comes into focus leading to our showdown of Taralyon and Alleria VS the army of light aka Yrel.

    11.0 main boss could be a cool Scarlet crusade raid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    Nice logo.

    I hope someone makes an HD version of the Awakenings logo, just to add more fuel to the fire:

    For half a second I thought it was a leak and then i remembered. I do think I would enjoy that expansion if it were real though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    Feels like to me that a Light based expansion would be Blizzard’s “break glass in case of emergency” expansion similar to Legion.

    Illidan’s return(as his destiny is said to involve the Light greatly if X’era is to be believed), Scarlets, Yrel, Denathrius/Dreadlords, Turalyon possibly going bad with an antagonistic Alliance for a change.

    To me that seems like the next big epic expansion to be brought out when things are looking dire, like with Legion.

    I just can’t see us returning so soon to anything grand and cosmic in scale after how poorly Shadowlands was received, with Blizz acknowledging that.
    Throw in a world revamp and you have be hooked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    In BFA with the Mag'har Orc quest line where Yrel first appears as an antagonist.
    During Shadowlands, Yrel's BNET avatar popped up among other BNET avatars which were all Shadowlands related except for hers.



    Yeah, there's nothing we know of in DF yet, but then again it could be right under our nose and we just don't realize it. The most blatant hints for DF were two mechanical dragons, and only one of those dragons appeared in Shadowlands and it was a pet. The other popped up at the very end of BFA.

    Also there's nothing to say that Yrel's light invasion wouldn't incorporate Avaloren or the world revamp.

    There's also the small fact that 2024 (11.0's release year) would be the 10th year anniversary of WoD.
    I imagine any datamined hint will be in 10.2 datamining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    As much as Avaloren sounds enticing for the setting a new expansion on Azeroth, it also sounds very appropriate as the final setting for a traditional fantasy expansion about dragons. I don't think it gets more traditional or grounded in fantasy than something based off Avalon.
    Tbh, it makes more sense to save it for a back to Azeroth breather expansion imo.

    11.0 world revamp.
    12.0 Journey to Karesh and the void.
    13.0 Back to Azeroth and other side of Azeroth aka Avaloren
    14.0 Everything changed When the Void lord nation attacked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yeah, I could also see a Titan expansion down the line where we explore a titan land mass of some type. In such an expansion, I could see the major lore characters being Brann Bronzebeard and the League of Explorers vs. Rafaam with us caught in the middle in an Indiana Jones type of adventure. New Class: Explorer.

    Beyond that, the idea of a full Titan expansion sounds incredibly boring.

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    This too. Very likely that Avaloren is a setting for 10.3, kind of like Argus, Mechagon/Nazjatar, or Zerith Mortis in previous expansions.
    What about a realm hopping expansion with teleports similar to Cata and Shadowlands. 5 or 6 seperate zones. Each zone is the dead body of a titan panetheon member.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    This is not an invitation to turn this into a classic discussion or talk about classic at all, but because we like looking at official Blizzard logos in regards to comparing it to fake future leaks, here's a bit of a special edition logo.

    Click-y for link to the press site with the 6600 x 5400 version.

    Thats a nice looking logo ngl. Looks a bit like Classic WoW meets diablo 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    God. I think the only way you could possibly make a light-based expansion less appealing to me is to throw Illidan back in as a main character on the player's side.
    I mean Illidan and Sargeras will 100% be back to help us with the Void lords.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    It would fit in with Xe’ra’s obsession with Illidan, as Huth said. It bears remembering that MU Xe’ra’s entire story arc in Legion revolved around her obsession with Legion. Her motivation felt more about converting Illidan to her side as her primary goal, over defeating the Legion.

    I don’t think it’s a certainty that Illidan would play a major role in a Light based expansion. But it’s important to remember during the Legion story, a big part of Illidan’s development was his alleged connection to the Light, his apparent destiny involving the Light, and ultimately him rejecting the Light. And given what we know now about the Light, or rather suspect, those who represent it won’t be all too pleased to see who is perceived to be their potential greatest champion, completely turn his back on it. To top things off, the literal Lightmother of the Naaru has an unhealthy, hostile obsession with him.

    That particular story thread is still there to be explored if Blizz choose to, and I don’t think we should quite dismiss it yet.

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    Well, the Lightbound invasion could happen for both reasons. Yrel wants to forcibly convert the denizens of Azeroth. Xe’ra wants to convert the denizens of Azeroth, but it could be a two bird one stone situation as she continues to pursue her obsession with Illidan. I think it could make for an interesting story, and one more slightly different than what we are expecting. Rather than just having Xe’ra completely focused on converting all folk to the Light, it would make for a refreshing change to have her just be completely unhinged and obsessed with Illidan, wanting to convert him by any means necessary and using the Lightbound as a means to that end. It could also create an interesting schism at some point between Yrel and Xe’ra.

    Do I think that’s what Blizz will go with? Probably not. I expect and wouldn’t mind a Light based expansion following the below pattern or something similar:

    11.0 - Light invades, wins Stormwind to their cause. Invades Lordaeron and Quel’thalas. Raid is either a revamped Sunwell or repurposed Deatholme in the Ghostlands. Lightholme?

    11.1 - Lightbound lead an assault on Azuremyst and Bloodmyst. Raid is Defence of The Exodar.

    11.2 - We push the Light back to Stormwind. Elwynn, Westfall, Duskwood and Redridge become daily hubs. Raid is Siege of Stormwind

    Mega Dungeon - I have no idea someone jump in here. Possibly Scarlet Monastery. Alternatively could be Temple of Karabor if we head to Draenor sooner.

    11.3 - We push the Light back to AU Draenor. We land in Farahlon which homes the last remaining bastion of Orcs from AU Draenor. A war campaign leading us from Farahlon to Talador ensues. Raid is Shattrath City.

    But I could also see a heavy Illidan story taking place considering what we know. I think both possible story paths have merit.
    That actually sounds kinda cool ngl.

    It would also reuse a lot of assets in Draenor and if 11.0 was also a revamp the patches would use the same art from the 11.0 world revamp patch. Massive art cot upront but very low art cost for patch content. Could give them the them they need to revamp kalimdor in time for 12.0.

  4. #8244
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    "11.0 world revamp.
    12.0 Journey to Karesh and the void.
    13.0 Back to Azeroth and other side of Azeroth aka Avaloren
    14.0 Everything changed When the Void lord nation attacked."

    Y'all are gonna likely be disappointed by the future expac results, ngl...
    This particular list checks out fine for me, though I'd also like to see an Azjol-Nerub expansion, perhaps merging the 12.0 and 14.0 of this list into one so that 12.0 could be Azjol-Nerub.

  5. #8245
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Hell, I could see us fighting Sargeras before we deal with the Void Lords in any major way.
    I don't think Sargeras if he comes back will be the enemy or friend but just a temporary ally, titans and ilidan probably set him straight so maybe his original plans, thinking changed a little.

  6. #8246
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Imma keep it real with you, there is no way we won't fight Sargeras in some form. It would feel like a waste ngl.

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    Doesn't mean we'll kill him or anything. I just want to knock him down finally.
    Well someone sooner or later will have to remove that sword from Silithus, i don't see other candidates than Sargeras.

    Maybe the sword will become a raid.

  7. #8247
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    For half a second I thought it was a leak and then i remembered. I do think I would enjoy that expansion if it were real though.
    Same! Awakenings is an ongoing FAKE leak since 8.0, if I'm not mistaken, and every time I get excited, even when they're 100% fake. LMAO.

    I hope we get plenty of FAKE Revamps leaks just for the flavor. Dreaming doesn't hurt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    11.0 world revamp.
    12.0 Journey to Karesh and the void.
    13.0 Back to Azeroth and other side of Azeroth aka Avaloren
    14.0 Everything changed When the Void lord nation attacked."

    Y'all are gonna likely be disappointed by the future expac results, ngl...
    K'aresh is probably the only cosmic place I would like to visit because I like Ethereals and this fan concept:



    --

    In regards to World Revamp, Bellular released one last video that explains all the possibilities for it to happen:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMoIuDiGpZI

    I'm not posting the thumbnail to avoid people complaining about promotion, but it's a good video for those interested.

    The most important part for me is when he asks if we really need WoW 2, only to see Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor again; my feelings exactly.

  8. #8248
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    You mean like BfA and SL?
    No, considerably worse. BfA and SL were done poorly, but they didn't come out of nowhere. Your ideas are poor and out of nowhere.

  9. #8249
    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    I'm not posting the thumbnail to avoid people complaining about promotion, but it's a good video for those interested.

    The most important part for me is when he asks if we really need WoW 2, only to see Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor again; my feelings exactly.
    When I complain about people posting videos that are ads in disguise or promotions, it's only when it's posted with no message or one that only says something along those lines : "hey look, youtuber X posted this, it's interesting"

    on topic:
    calling wow 2 a come back to Kalimdor or Eastern Kingdom makes little to no sense to me, on that account it would even be wow 3. Then If we come back to either continent, it wouldn't be just for the sake of it but to grow the world. Take the story of humans, elves, taurens, orcs, etc. and let the world evolve. The small bits that we've had up until now are not enough for the world to feel alive and going back to the original continents would help the game feel more modern at the same time of having more interesting and relevant stories to tell.

  10. #8250
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    This particular list checks out fine for me, though I'd also like to see an Azjol-Nerub expansion, perhaps merging the 12.0 and 14.0 of this list into one so that 12.0 could be Azjol-Nerub.
    Instead of Azjol-Nerub which is a very limited theme, you could have a Hollow World concept. We see with Argus that the planet is just a shell with the World Soul in the center. What if the same is true with Azeroth; instead of the magnetic iron core of earth-like planets it has the world soul. Imagine multiple zones like
    An Azerite Sea beneath the Maelstrom were Azshara has founded new Zin'Azshari
    Obviously Ahn'Khanet/Azjol-Nerub
    Lava Tunnels below Blackrock Mountain in what was the original seat of power for Ragnaros during Primordial Times. Ragnaros has actually Respawned here!; who knew all they needed to do to escape the Elemental Planes was die. Salamanders armies are building, preparing to conquer the surface.
    The ruins of a lost dwarven civilization, empty halls and dwarven skeletons littering the Halls as mechanical armies (Blingtrons?) fight each other
    All the zones at their lowest point break to the Hollow core of the planet were you see the World Soul and a massive Titan facility floating around it while the rotting corpses of the Old Gods can be seen breaking through the crust in multiple areas striving to reach Azeroth.

  11. #8251
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    This particular list checks out fine for me, though I'd also like to see an Azjol-Nerub expansion, perhaps merging the 12.0 and 14.0 of this list into one so that 12.0 could be Azjol-Nerub.
    I think we’re going to see Undermine instead of Azjol-Nerub. WoW devs already stated that they wanted Goblin players to experience it, and it was a planned continent in vanilla WoW. Azjol-Nerub is more likely to be a dungeon or raid; Possibly during an Undermine expansion.

    That would also line up well with the introduction of everyone’s favorite class; The Tinker. The concept of Azerite should also be heavily revisited, since Kezan and subsequently Undermine supposedly has a high level of Azerite deposits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    Well, the Lightbound invasion could happen for both reasons. Yrel wants to forcibly convert the denizens of Azeroth. Xe’ra wants to convert the denizens of Azeroth, but it could be a two bird one stone situation as she continues to pursue her obsession with Illidan. I think it could make for an interesting story, and one more slightly different than what we are expecting. Rather than just having Xe’ra completely focused on converting all folk to the Light, it would make for a refreshing change to have her just be completely unhinged and obsessed with Illidan, wanting to convert him by any means necessary and using the Lightbound as a means to that end. It could also create an interesting schism at some point between Yrel and Xe’ra.

    Do I think that’s what Blizz will go with? Probably not. I expect and wouldn’t mind a Light based expansion following the below pattern or something similar:

    11.0 - Light invades, wins Stormwind to their cause. Invades Lordaeron and Quel’thalas. Raid is either a revamped Sunwell or repurposed Deatholme in the Ghostlands. Lightholme?

    11.1 - Lightbound lead an assault on Azuremyst and Bloodmyst. Raid is Defence of The Exodar.

    11.2 - We push the Light back to Stormwind. Elwynn, Westfall, Duskwood and Redridge become daily hubs. Raid is Siege of Stormwind

    Mega Dungeon - I have no idea someone jump in here. Possibly Scarlet Monastery. Alternatively could be Temple of Karabor if we head to Draenor sooner.

    11.3 - We push the Light back to AU Draenor. We land in Farahlon which homes the last remaining bastion of Orcs from AU Draenor. A war campaign leading us from Farahlon to Talador ensues. Raid is Shattrath City.

    But I could also see a heavy Illidan story taking place considering what we know. I think both possible story paths have merit.
    Are we even sure that the Naaru empowering the Lightbound army is Xera? Also even if it is, this is an AU version of Xera, she might not give two f*cks about Illidan.

    With that said, your patch concepts are very interesting. Good work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    What about a realm hopping expansion with teleports similar to Cata and Shadowlands. 5 or 6 seperate zones. Each zone is the dead body of a titan panetheon member.
    That’s fine and all, but why are we doing it? Also how are we doing it?

    I like the idea of lost Titan facilities scattered throughout the world. Those are always fun to explore, and the lore can be very interesting. I also like how they align with ancient civilizations in the real world. However, running and down the body of a Titan seems kind of weird.

  12. #8252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    K'aresh is probably the only cosmic place I would like to visit because I like Ethereals and this fan concept
    They got me at this name:

    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  13. #8253
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    Slightly OT: What about the Nathrezim planet.
    Was it also completely deatroyed or unknown?

    We had few people mention the place, but it all seema really outdated. Very fell and legion influenced. We know they can adapt very well to one cosmic force, but as their homeworld it seems a little odd that their focus is on fel, atleast according to wowpedia.

    Could this be the place were the dreadlord went with denathrius?
    Last edited by Alanar; 2023-06-29 at 03:43 PM.

  14. #8254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Slightly OT: What about the Nathrezim planet.
    Was it also completely deatroyed or unknown?

    We had few people mention the place, but it all seema really outdated. Very fell and legion influenced. We know they can adapt very well to one cosmic force, but as their homeworld it seems a little their focus is on fel.

    Could this be the place were the dreadlord went with denathrius?
    Illidan blew it up like out land, could still be some sizeable chunks though.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  15. #8255
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Illidan blew it up like out land, could still be some sizeable chunks though.
    I guess it doesnt mean much in the end, since ka eresh also says its destroyed. As long as the story lends itself the place will be created or retconned. Same story as Zandalar.

    Good to know.

  16. #8256
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    I'm sure we'll see K'aresh or so, whether it be in the near future or farther future, but I do think we'll see the other Cosmic Domains. Ik others don't want to go there, but if said expacs follow the DF roadmap plan, then maybe the other Cosmic Realms and Zereths will be better received?
    I think Cosmic Planes would work if they follow Legion story flow, where we start in Azeroth and then we go to a Cosmic Plane afterward, it also can be done using two expacs, one for lore and threat build-up and one for arc conclusion.

    For some weird reason, Blizzard thought that an unknown story and villains would work in Shadowlands, but in Legion, we knew we were going to face Gul'dan, Kil'jaeden, and possibly Sargeras at the moment the expansion was announced, same thing with Wrath of the Lich King, so it doesn't matter if we know who we're going to kill next if it makes sense lore-wise. Meanwhile, in Shadowlands, they tried to keep everything a secret as long as possible and the conclusion failed to fulfill the expectations created after so many cliffhangers, not to mention the retcons.

  17. #8257


    Green jesus on Blizzcon 2023 art, we will see more of thrall in coming patches besides the orc heritage armor? or maybe in new expansion.

  18. #8258
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheMizAwesome View Post
    Green jesus on Blizzcon 2023 art, we will see more of thrall in coming patches besides the orc heritage armor? or maybe in new expansion.
    I still hope Metzen will be one to annonce next expac on main stage.

  19. #8259
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    I still hope Metzen will be one to annonce next expac on main stage.
    Metzen or actually someone that brings some charisma and energy to the stage..

    Nothing against the man, but i hope john hight won't be even close to doing any announcements..

  20. #8260
    If Thrall is the key Warcraft character for this years Blizzcon then I can’t be too crazy for assuming that would mean a world revamp seems most likely?

    Probably looking way too much into it but I guess you could glean “healing the world” vibes from it as well as a new beginning.

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