1. #9361
    Quote Originally Posted by Mecheon View Post
    We have tons of achievements, we have active zones from BfA that are tied into that whole thing, we have the Dragonflight races just being included next patch. You need backwards compatibility

    There are no mountains between Dakrshore and Felwood. What there is though is a cliff, because Felwood sits massive vertically above Darkshore and people have known this for years. Its why Hyjal's so tall, Darkshore's the shoreline, Felwood's a more alpine part of the forest as you climb the mountain making your way to Hyjal's summit. That's part of the World of Warcraft, part of how this game and world have been presented ever since.. If you remove the massive cliffs between the two, you're not respecting. You're making a tiny mount Hyjal that isn't so massive you can see the thing looking out from Orgrimmar, which we can do today. These are part of the world as we know it, changing them up is disrespecting the world's history

    Frankly if anything, Felwood and Darkshore need more differntiation between them, to let Hyjal be even taller and more mountanous. And we absolutely need Felwood. That's basically the Satyr home turf, it was in WC3 as its own very specific thing, its the place thte Timbermaw Furbolg rep occurs. Felwood alone is more important to Warcraft than like, half the zones in southern Kalimdor.


    There are high and low end zones. People can walk out the front of Orgrimmar and Stormwind, ignoring all the quests, and just going to wander. That's just, how the game is built. You can't take zones built for 60 levels of exploration and go "They're now endgame!"

    Your quillboar necromancer is literately just another big bad villain with all of the re-occurences of Skovald. People want good stories that tie into areas, not pointless long spanning epics for the sake of long spanning epics. They tried long-spanning epic last expansion with the Jailer. It didn't work.

    Welcome to the fun issue of doing a world revamp. You need to keep the world true to what it is. This includes dumb things like "There's a cactus patch where it goes from Tanaris down into Un'goro"
    While I agree with some takes - I really dont see why should we keep some zones just for keeping it. Why not change things that not usable anymore? When was last time any meaningfull things coming from Felwood, or Redridge, or even Ungoro? Cata with last revamp? Why not make world bigger, better and more modern?
    Why not make Hyjal as it was, in WC3 - LARGE tree atop mountain, not some leafs and giant cliff? Why not heal Felwood and make it home for NE? Deal with Satyrs, deal with goblins? And furborgs are not going anywhere, you know? We can expand their lore with current tech and new tribes?
    Like that
    or just like that or even that
    you're not respecting
    Respecting what, original 2003 year engine? Why not make better Kalimdor, and not keeping it just for some old memories?
    Remove if necessary some quest chains, add more to ensure living world, not archaeological museum.
    Last edited by Dancaris; 2023-07-10 at 01:11 PM.

  2. #9362
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    Does someone remember if 10.1 was announced before 10.0.7?

    Really excited to see what happens to Nozdormu and to get information about 10.1.7 (ping system seems interesting), but 10.2 has to be an awesome patch. They know that 10.1, while a good patch overall (IMO), was not enough.
    Yeah, 10.1 got revealed about two weeks before 10.0.7's release date. I'm expecting 10.1.7 to be leaner than the last .7, based on all the feedback that the Reach was dumped way too quickly. It makes more sense for .5 patches to be meatier while .7 patches are more systems focused, given there's a new impending major patch at that point.

  3. #9363
    La la la la~ LemonDemonGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    - The fake Shadowlands map leak that Asmongold and Pyromancer were championing.
    Honestly that was no worse than what we ended up getting
    I don't play WoW anymore smh.

  4. #9364
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    While I agree with some takes - I really dont see why should we keep some zones just for keeping it. Why not change things that not usable anymore? When was last time any meaningfull things coming from Felwood, or Redridge, or even Ungoro? Cata with last revamp? Why not make world bigger, better and more modern?
    Why not make Hyjal as it was, in WC3 - LARGE tree atop mountain, not some leafs and giant cliff? Why not heal Felwood and make it home for NE? Deal with Satyrs, deal with goblins? And furborgs are not going anywhere, you know? We can expand their lore with current tech and new tribes?
    Like that
    or just like that or even that

    Respecting what, original 2003 year engine? Why not make better Kalimdor, and not keeping it just for some old memories?
    Remove if necessary some quest chains, add more to ensure living world, not archaeological museum.
    Its the World of Warcraft. The world of Azeroth. Isn't the whole point of a revamp to inspire that? To revisit these old places done up well? Not remove them?

    Felwood is where Illidan took the skull of Gul'dan and became his powerful half-demon self. Its a blight on Ashenvale (as its part of Ashenvale, not Darkshore) that is the scars of the elves former wars against the Legion. Plus like, its infamous in vanilla for being the place to go to farm consumables. Plus the Timbermaw were the first Furbolg faction. New tribes, who cares? The Timbermaw were there first, guarding the gates to Winterspring and Moonglade
    Un'goro is a historically weird zone, a lush crater with tons of pulp vibes in the middle of a desert, and is not only linked to a similar place up north in Sholazar with the Waygates, but was the site of a now destroyed World Tree if the whole Emerald Nightmare raid is anything to go by, and that's before even looking at the absolute tons of titan technology burried under it
    Redridge is the borderlands, the last outpost of humanity before the northern volcanic wastes. A powerful natural chokepoint and a small town nestled right close to potential destruction if anything should rush down that way. Which was the whole Cata quest for here.

    We keep these realms around because its Azeroth, the World of Warcraft. You've said it yourself, its a living realm. These are parts of the realm and world of Azeroth, we can't just ditch entire zones, especially ones so important. Making the world bigger, sure, why not. You run into my other issues. But removing places? Absolutely not. Its the World of Warcraft, not the "A few nice zones I guess" of Warcraft

  5. #9365
    I think that a revamp is very much necessary at this point. Sure, getting new continents may be cool for the old players, but the playerbase is shrinking. Dragonflight managed to figure out how to retain the playerbase. As of right now, Blizzard is pulling out all the stops to bring players back, with free gear for returning characters and a semi-permanent 50% discount for Dragonflight. But guess what? The "old" playerbase are adults now. They have jobs and families. No matter what Blizz does, they will slowly lose them to the "real world". So the priority for Blizzard right now is to recruit new players. The young blood. Zoomers, who need a reason to care about this world, as they did not grow up with Warcraft 3, nor did they experience the time when WoW was the coolest thing ever.
    And what Blizz has for them to offer right now is just plain bad.

    REASONS FOR THE REVAMP

    * BfA being the default expansion makes absolutely no sense from the perspective of a new player. New players do not get to experience the WORLD of Warcraft, they do not understand the locations, races, or history of the world. From the point of view of a new player, we start with Horde and Aliance being a collection of random races that hate and kill each other for no clear reason, then they collect blue crystals until you hit lvl 60, and suddenly the bad grey lady is gone and everyone is friends again in Dragonflight. This is an absolutely terrible narrative experience.

    * Adding dragonriding to Azeroth is nice, but it will show even more strongly how dated the old world is. The zones are comparatively small and flat, with ridiculous mountain ranges between them (ridiculous in both their shape, detail, and execution). Flying on a dragon through the old world, we will be jumping between zones and biomes every few seconds. In vanilla, the old world felt like a WORLD because you were slow and on foot, with narrow corridors between zones forcing you to maneuver around the map, extending the travel time even further. You had a much shorter draw distance, so the zones felt endless. That's why it felt massive. These days, it's no longer the case; the world feels tiny, you can see Mount Hyjal and Gorribal from half a continent away. Honestly, it's kind of ridiculous and immersion-breaking.

    * Most of the old world is stuck 15 years ago in a very specific time. Nothing ever gets resolved, you jump through time when going between zones. You are in the ruins of Undercity with a big battle scar going through the Tirisfal Glades, the next second, you are in Cataclysm-era Silverpine Forest, and a few moments later, you teleport to BC-era Silvermoon. It is a total narrative mess.

    PROBLEMS WITH THE REVAMP

    * Of course, a legit revamp of the old world would be a massive undertaking. Yes, they managed to revamp the world in Cataclysm, but this was much smaller in scope than what is needed right now. We need new assets, maps, terrain, quests, basically everything. The world needs to be rebuilt from the ground up to hold up to today's standards. A half-assed revamp in the style of Cataclysm will not do in 2023, it would be just a waste of resources. You cannot base the endgame around the old world if the old world is not up to the standards of Dragonflight. You cannot awe the new players if the old world is not up to the standards of Dragonflight. It's all or nothing, and I don't think Blizz can, in the long term, afford "nothing".

    * I think Blizz knows all that, and they have been working on the big revamp for quite some time now. It is a much bigger task than a single "normal" expansion, and they may even have a separate team dedicated to the revamp that works in parallel with the regular "current/next" expansion teams. Keep in mind that they've been getting more and more people for quite some time now. We have been seeing small signs of a revamp all over the place for quite some time now.

    MY VISION

    So how do I imagine the world revamp?
    * The old world is rebuilt from the ground up, with all the same zones (or perhaps some more where it would make sense?). The topology is rebuilt to be more believable: the zones are bigger and no longer homogeneous in their feel, mountain ranges are integrated into the zones so they become part of the world instead of simply "zone walls", there are more passages between zones through the mountains, and the transitions between the zones are made much more natural.

    * Bonus points if you add the South Seas islands to the mix and place both Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms on one map, allowing you to travel (perhaps slowly) between all of the zones / continents on a boat. Is it necessary? No. Would it be cool and make the world feel more like a real place? Definitely.

    * The leveling up experience is once again part of the game. The new players are forced to level through the old world, visiting many zones and getting to understand the world. Then, once they have a max level character, they can level their subsequent characters through Chromie time just like today, so they are not forced to repeat the "long leveling" more than once.

    * The leveling experience would not necessarily make use of the full zones; some parts of the zones could be delegated to purely max level content. This could perhaps help with the travel time, which would be longer should the zones be enlarged.

    * The "cata world" becomes instanced and available through Chromie.

    * As for the max level characters, instead of a new continent with a few new zones, we get the entirety of the old world to play through at max level. Instead of four zones with their specific campaigns, we get several campaigns that span multiple zones.
    - We could have a campaign about the tentative peace between the Undead and the Worgen, retaking the Gilneas and rebuilding the Undercity.
    - We could have a campaign about whatever happens with the Plaguelands and the Scarlet Crusade.
    - We could have a campaign about the politics of the dwarfs now that Dagran is of age.
    - We could have a campaign about the return of Anduin and the politics of Stormwind.
    - We could have a campaign about rebuilding the night elf civilization.
    - We could have a campaign about the unrest within the Horde, where some are unhappy about the truce with the Alliance.
    - We could have a campaign about the effects of Gorribal on the surrounding areas.
    - We could have a campaign about the pirates that spans from Tanaris, through the South Seas islands to the Stranglethorn.
    ...and these are just some examples. This way, the endgame leveling experience is actually about the WORLD of Warcraft, and we get to tie up all the unresolved plots in the old world.

    * The world would also get the Dragonflight treatment in terms of the endgame gameplay with factions and events, world quests, etc.

    Sure, this might not be what everyone wants, but I believe this is very much what the game needs if it wants to stay relevant and attract new players. A soft reset of sorts. A way to relive vanilla within the modern framework.
    Last edited by KurtMash; 2023-07-10 at 01:54 PM.

  6. #9366
    Pandaren Monk Worldshaper's Avatar
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    Holy moly, that new 6 month sub reward is pretty.

    Also, seems a bit fishy to make such a detailed custom model just for a promotion, eh?

  7. #9367
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Holy moly, that new 6 month sub reward is pretty.

    Also, seems a bit fishy to make such a detailed custom model just for a promotion, eh?
    Explosion of Wrath of the Moustache Azshara expansion confirmed.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  8. #9368
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Holy moly, that new 6 month sub reward is pretty.

    Also, seems a bit fishy to make such a detailed custom model just for a promotion, eh?
    Its certainly detailed but is it that custom? There's a fish mount already.

  9. #9369
    That 6 month sub cat mount had nothing to do with DF so I wouldn't read into it.

  10. #9370
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murlocos View Post
    That 6 month sub cat mount had nothing to do with DF so I wouldn't read into it.
    That cat mount will 100% be used for the Emerald Dream patch this Expansion. And both the phoenix and netherwyrm are used already on the Dragon Isles.

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  11. #9371
    Pandaren Monk Worldshaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    Its certainly detailed but is it that custom? There's a fish mount already.
    I don't know, the moustache and everything makes it seem quite unique. All that stuff has to be animated.

  12. #9372
    The Lightbringer Valysar's Avatar
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    Queen Azshara will be back then

  13. #9373
    What mount is everyone talking about?

  14. #9374
    Pandaren Monk Worldshaper's Avatar
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    While the mount certainly has both Azshara and Pandaria vibes (koi fish), I'm leaning more towards Azshara on this one.

    First of all because of the colour scheme, which doesn't really scream Pandaria. But also because of the saddle, which definitely reminds me of ancient Kaldorei stuff, like what we had in 8.2.

    The moustache is interesting. Probably reading way too much into it, because koi fish do look a bit like this... but it gives off a little bit of a tentacly vibe, doesn't it? I'm thinking of Davy Jones from Pirates of the Caribbean, and even some Old God minions in WoW. Almost as if the fish had been slightly affected by something down there in the water.

    But again, just spitballing. The saddle, the underwater theme, and the rich detail in the mount are probably the three biggest hints.

    Edit: Oh, and time to hop into WoW for the mandatory "I gotta create an underwater explorer type character in preparation of the expansion RIGHT NOW."

  15. #9375

  16. #9376
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    I don't know, the moustache and everything makes it seem quite unique. All that stuff has to be animated.
    Wouldn't be overly hard I imagine, but fair enough. I don't think it is that indicative of anything though.

    One of the previous mounts (the sapphire phoenix) turned out to just be Zereth Mortis for example when bunch of people thought it'd be hinting toward whatever came after Shadowlands. And ditto the cat mount. We'll see where that turns up, if anywhere at all.

    edit: You know, let's say it is a world revamp expansion. And we get a water zone? That really is just Cataclysm 2.0, isn't it? Hah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    What mount is everyone talking about?
    https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-won...-bundle-333923

    New 6 month sub mount.
    Last edited by Kiivar86; 2023-07-10 at 06:11 PM.

  17. #9377
    Pandaren Monk Worldshaper's Avatar
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    Oh, and I just realised 10.2 is probably (at most) 4 months away. The Emerald Dream looms! Finally some closure on all that World Tree and Night Elf business.

  18. #9378
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    That cat mount will 100% be used for the Emerald Dream patch this Expansion. And both the phoenix and netherwyrm are used already on the Dragon Isles.
    That's fair, I guess we'll see.

  19. #9379

  20. #9380
    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrad Wagner View Post
    Pretty sure this fish is a red herring... :clownface:
    Its just bait for people, a supposed hook for the next expansion that they hope will net some people into thinking it'll be water based.

    Its too fishy, but some people...well, its like shooting fish in a barrel.

    ...what other puns can I fit in this...

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