1. #10041
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    I saw this on reddit, apparently that time travel inn thing some people are wondering if it hints toward anything:



    Personally I think its just a little tease at how it could be but isn't (after all all the time rift stuff is all "what if" stuff), but who knows.
    Omg I'd love that
    It's the black empire expansion in all it's glory

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I think the Tyr vs Odyn beef is a red herring. In the Uldaman book, Tyr vouches for free will for the dragons which puts him at odds with Odyn. This was prelaunch and set up the idea of "Odyn bad Tyr good".

    HOWEVER, as the story goes along we are mostly seeing that TYR's machinations are shady or, at the very least, are hidden to the dragons (vault quest, silver scale). We also get a very skewed perception of him (aspects love him, Khoranos and the Tyrguard venerate him) that just begs to be flipped on its head. And this has already been set in stone with the fact that Alex will "betray him" (unless she ACTUALLY gets corrupted, which I really doubt).

    I think the twist, if it exists, is that Tyr will eventually side with Odyn after all. Maybe when he comes back, finds the aspects have actually all been corrupted (besides Alex), and then Alex does something that he considers a betrayal.
    He's gonna come back
    Wonder why all life wasn't ordered like the aspects
    Try to turn all proto-dragon beings into something ordered
    Get defeated by us
    We realize we weren't always the heroes
    Xal drains him

  2. #10042
    Warchief Catastrophy349's Avatar
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    Maybe unpopular opinion, but I love the cosmology chart and cosmology lore. I just want it to be set up better before going head first, which it seems like they are doing a bit better now than with BFA---->SL.

  3. #10043
    Quote Originally Posted by Ceveris View Post
    I can't wait to see Amirdrassil grow up... the Green flight is definitely my favorite (Night Elves too <3).



    Don't worry, it's not an unpopular opinion... i love too.
    SL was just weird
    The writing team couldn't stick to one thing and instead we got like 5 different explanations for the eternal ones

  4. #10044
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post



    If true, can't wait to hear how their retroactive and nonsensical explanation as to why there are only seven seats in the Seat of the Pantheon.
    Easy Make her Like Hestia from greek myth who while part of the Olympian gods did not have a throne on Mount Olympus. Given the little lore we got for her we know personality wise is actually similar to Hestia so its not that far fetched

  5. #10045
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    I would love to see more of the cosmic forces lore and stuff happen in game. However, it needs to be properly set up. If 9.0 set up the SL, then 10.0 we went into the SL, I think it could have worked.

  6. #10046
    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    I would love to see more of the cosmic forces lore and stuff happen in game. However, it needs to be properly set up. If 9.0 set up the SL, then 10.0 we went into the SL, I think it could have worked.
    As someone that dislikes cosmic planes exploration (not forces), I think they could work if they were presented by playable races' perspectives and inner conflicts; let me explain:

    In WC3 we learned about the Burning Legion and Scourge through Humans/Orcs/Elves' eyes, not through Demons/Undeads; the plague and the legion invasion started in their homeland, and the turmoil created the reason to push forward at the same time that iconic characters from the playable factions were being developed to take a role from the enemies perspective, such as Illidan (Night Elf) and Arthas (Human), that's why WC3 is so iconic.

    That's what I think WoW is missing recently, build-up. The only story that I liked in Dragonflight is the Black Dragonflight resolution because it's the only story that's following a great arc that started back in Vanilla and gave more context to characters such as Sabelian introduced in Burning Crusade, Wrathion introduced in Cataclysm, Ebyssian in Legion, and ofc Deathwing (Neltharion), but other than that, the Incarnates/Primalist plot feels weak as most of SL was... I think if Blizzard had used Twilight's Hammer instead of this new faction to give more context to these Incarnates, the story would improve a lot.

    Shadowlands announcement, for instance, I think would've been a lot more exciting if in BFA we had learned more about Zovaal and the Maw after 8.2, and instead of fighting N'zoth and the Black Empire in 8.3, we could have fought a reformed Scourge with forces mostly from Shadowlands led by Sylvanas and Nathanos, and an empowered version of Nathanos could've been the last boss, after defeating him we would learn through the cinematic that Sylvanas went to Icecrown to open the rift.

    For Shadowlands expansion itself, I think the covenants and its zones felt too out of place with so few Azerothian characters, so instead of having only a very few characters as we saw in most zones and covenants, I think the perfect scenario would be having many more Azerothian characters, but as ghosts to keep their aesthetic and resemblance, such as Kael'thas/Garrosh alongside most of their followers in Revendreth, Gronmash/Vashj/Kel'thuzad alongside most of their followers in Maldraxxus, Ysera/Caerne and most Night Elves, Tauren, and Trolls that died before BFA in Ardenweald, Uther/Tyrion/Rakeesh(Velen's Son)/Anasterian Sunstrider/Lirath Windrunner and many others that had tragic death before BFA in Bastion, and in the Maw, we would have, just for nostalgic sake, some Arthas/Lich King followers.

    But sadly we only got a few known faces here and there and a ton of stories about characters nobody gives a s**t about.

    - -

    I'm 99% sure 11.0 isn't a World Revamp at this point, so my last hope is that 11.0 focuses on the playable race's lore and how they're going to handle the new threat, instead of helping foreigns and seeing all the plot from their perspective, as we got in Shadowlands and Dragonflight.
    Last edited by Luck4; 2023-07-23 at 04:55 AM.

  7. #10047
    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    I'm 99% sure 11.0 isn't a World Revamp at this point, so my last hope is that 11.0 focuses on the playable race's lore and how they're going to handle the new threat, instead of helping foreigns, solving their problems, and seeing the plot resolution from their perspective, as we got in Shadowlands and Dragonflight.
    Interesting. What makes you think so? :-)

  8. #10048
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Interesting. What makes you think so? :-)
    The story direction mostly, but also the lack of data mining hints that couldn't be mistaken as "something else" (Trading Post/New Azerothian Continent). Because as it stands now, the only stuff that could indicate a World Revamp are the Human buildings added in 9.1; everything else: the HD gear, the ships, and a bunch of other models could fit in the "something else" category.

    There's also the deja-vu feeling from past expansion speculations. Every time since the 8.0 thread, we thought the next expansion would be a World Revamp early on, but as we move close to the announcement, the hints/interviews/"leaks" make us change to a soft revamp, then partial, then just a few zones, until the reveal came and we have nothing at all.
    Last edited by Luck4; 2023-07-23 at 05:15 AM.

  9. #10049
    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    The story direction mostly, but also the lack of data mining hints that couldn't be mistaken as "something else" (Trading Post/New Azerothian Continent). Because as it stands now, the only stuff that could indicate a World Revamp are the Human buildings added in 9.1; everything else: the HD gear, the ships, and a bunch of other models could fit in the "something else" category.

    There's also the deja-vu feeling from past expansion speculations. Every time since the 8.0 thread, we thought the next expansion would be a World Revamp early on, but as we move close to the announcement, the hints/interviews/"leaks" make us change to a soft revamp, then partial, then just a few zones, until the reveal came and we have nothing at all.
    Fair enough. I will admit that we've all been here before, and it's not a guarantee Blizzard understands how important this stuff is to a lot of players.

    Even if they do, they might not be able to get such an idea approved by the executives.

    Character customisation is one such example, where players just keep begging Blizzard to put together a dedicated team for a continuous stream of new options. It seems like an easy win, but they still haven't done it.

    That said...

    We shouldn't just ignore all the evidence we do possess. Some kind of a revamp seems likely, whether large or small.

    • Why would Blizzard update so many old assets, if they're only meant for some small content update or questline in the old world? We've had content in the old world before, and they never went to the same length in terms of updating buildings, NPC guards, ships, etc.
    • Considering Dragonflight and 11.0 are sequels to Cataclysm, why would they omit such a major component of that expansion? Basically all the rest is here, from the dragons and the elements to the Void.
    • If 11.0, as in-game events suggest, involves Queen Azshara returning to "rule over the land, sky and sea", it makes sense that the expansion will be set on Azeroth. Not only that, but the story seems like it'll involve a major event transpiring on Azeroth with the world-soul.
    • We don't have any obvious locations to go visit next. Avaloren seems like a breadcrumb for future content at best. K'aresh is more of a patch zone. Undermine and various unexplored little islands or locations are pretty scattered and few in number.

  10. #10050
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    We shouldn't just ignore all the evidence we do possess. Some kind of a revamp seems likely, whether large or small.
    It's not being ignored, there 's just lots of holes in the "evidence"

    New buildings and creature models get added all the time, it doesn't mean anything. We got new vanilla human guard towers six years ago, but the past three expansions haven't been revamps, even if the updated models are part of a long term plan to update things, there's nothing about that to suggest that 11.0 is going to be a revamp expansion. It could be 13.0. It could be that 11.2 graphically updates a couple zones like 8.1 did.

    Dragonflight and 11.0 aren't sequels to Cataclysm and I wish you'd stop just treating this theory as factual. Dragonflight is, at best, a spritual successor to the theme of Cataclysm. There is nothing to suggest 11.0 will have anything at all to do with it. This logic isn't even internally consistent. If anything, Dragonflight should be the revamp because it's the one that mimics Cata.

    Six of the nine expansions are set on Azeroth and involve a major event and a villain who wants to take over. Nothing about this is evidence for an expansion. The world soul being important and potentially waking up has been an ongoing plot point for three expansions, three expansions that weren't revamps.

    Avaloren isn't any more "maybe one day" than crap like the heritage armor quests. K'aresh and Undermine aren't any more "patch zone" than any other expansion locale.


    There's very little actual evidence for a revamp coming, and several large pieces of evidence against it: That we know they plan on making Dragonflight the new leveling experience; that they bothered to put effort into a really minor graphical update of Darkshore and Arathi in BfA--something that doesn't make much sense if they've been working for several expansions now on an actual revamp; that the "hints" about storylines moving forward are all shit that isn't going to happen anytime soon (for example, seeds to regrow Durotar were only just planted with the explicit statement that the forest returning would take time.

    It's effectively no different than any other potential expansion concept.

  11. #10051
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    It's not being ignored, there 's just lots of holes in the "evidence"

    New buildings and creature models get added all the time, it doesn't mean anything. We got new vanilla human guard towers six years ago, but the past three expansions haven't been revamps, even if the updated models are part of a long term plan to update things, there's nothing about that to suggest that 11.0 is going to be a revamp expansion. It could be 13.0. It could be that 11.2 graphically updates a couple zones like 8.1 did.

    Dragonflight and 11.0 aren't sequels to Cataclysm and I wish you'd stop just treating this theory as factual. Dragonflight is, at best, a spritual successor to the theme of Cataclysm. There is nothing to suggest 11.0 will have anything at all to do with it. This logic isn't even internally consistent. If anything, Dragonflight should be the revamp because it's the one that mimics Cata.

    Six of the nine expansions are set on Azeroth and involve a major event and a villain who wants to take over. Nothing about this is evidence for an expansion. The world soul being important and potentially waking up has been an ongoing plot point for three expansions, three expansions that weren't revamps.

    Avaloren isn't any more "maybe one day" than crap like the heritage armor quests. K'aresh and Undermine aren't any more "patch zone" than any other expansion locale.


    There's very little actual evidence for a revamp coming, and several large pieces of evidence against it: That we know they plan on making Dragonflight the new leveling experience; that they bothered to put effort into a really minor graphical update of Darkshore and Arathi in BfA--something that doesn't make much sense if they've been working for several expansions now on an actual revamp; that the "hints" about storylines moving forward are all shit that isn't going to happen anytime soon (for example, seeds to regrow Durotar were only just planted with the explicit statement that the forest returning would take time.

    It's effectively no different than any other potential expansion concept.
    Oh ye of little faith.

    It's just a coincidence that WoD and BfA have been perfect bridges from old expansions to a Legion and Shadowlands, each of which then effectively concluded the stories of the Burning Legion and the Lich King. :-)

    It's also totally random that Dragonflight has been doing the same with Cataclysm, and that most hints now suggest a culmination to the story of the Old Gods and the Void in 11.0.

  12. #10052
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    If true, can't wait to hear how their retroactive and nonsensical explanation as to why there are only seven seats in the Seat of the Pantheon.
    My idea would be that she never had a Seat because she was never a member of the Pantheon.
    Until explicitly said otherwise, I stick to the original canon (which has not yet been retconned) that the World Souls were created on the Physical realm as a result of the clash of external forces (originally Void and Light but possibly all six forces). Which means that the Titans' of the Pantheon relationship with Order is not innate. As Zereth Ordos somehow gained the loyalty? of the Pantheon (either be Aman'Thul discovering it or by Order's forces sending emissaries to the Pantheon like e.g. the Constellar?) perhaps Amitus was a different case that was actually contacted by or found the Naaru and Zereth Lumen before the rest of the Pantheon found her. And maybe she departed the Physical Realm and is now part of Light
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2023-07-23 at 09:33 AM.

  13. #10053
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Oh ye of little faith.

    It's just a coincidence that WoD and BfA have been perfect bridges from old expansions to a Legion and Shadowlands, each of which then effectively concluded the stories of the Burning Legion and the Lich King. :-)

    It's also totally random that Dragonflight has been doing the same with Cataclysm, and that most hints now suggest a culmination to the story of the Old Gods and the Void in 11.0.
    Yeah it's so much of a "perfect bridge" to pick sections of an expansion and point out how there are similar random bits in other expansions (but only the ones that help the narrative, don't take note of the fact that Legion's Naga and Highborne storylines were a direct bridge from the Naga and Highborne elements in Cata, or that BfA was already a direct sequel to the story in Cata, because y'know, that'd poke all sorts of holes in the theory).

    11.0, the expansion after the Old Gods are largely all dead and the Void is just a tease is totally the expansion that represents the culmination of the Old Gods and Void.. I mean, by your own logic in this post BfA effectively concluded the story of the Old Gods, exactly the same way that Legion concluded BC and Shadowlands concluded Wrath, so It's confusing why you think 11.0 is going to cpnclude a storyline that's already over.

    It's very easy to see """patterns""" when you pick and choose what connects, ignoring the things that objectively connect but conflict with the pattern and the things that don't really connect unless actively forced.

  14. #10054
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Yeah it's so much of a "perfect bridge" to pick sections of an expansion and point out how there are similar random bits in other expansions (but only the ones that help the narrative, don't take note of the fact that Legion's Naga and Highborne storylines were a direct bridge from the Naga and Highborne elements in Cata, or that BfA was already a direct sequel to the story in Cata, because y'know, that'd poke all sorts of holes in the theory).

    11.0, the expansion after the Old Gods are largely all dead and the Void is just a tease is totally the expansion that represents the culmination of the Old Gods and Void.. I mean, by your own logic in this post BfA effectively concluded the story of the Old Gods, exactly the same way that Legion concluded BC and Shadowlands concluded Wrath, so It's confusing why you think 11.0 is going to cpnclude a storyline that's already over.

    It's very easy to see """patterns""" when you pick and choose what connects, ignoring the things that objectively connect but conflict with the pattern and the things that don't really connect unless actively forced.
    Every expansion contains a multitude of themes, characters, locations, etc. It's never just 100% focused on a single thing.

    What I'm arguing, as you're aware by now, is that WoD and BfA picked up where TBC and WotLK left off, put some steam back into those old storylines (with other things going on as well), and then led us directly into Legion and SL for a dramatic finale to each story.

    WoD very specifically reintroduced Khadgar, Draenor, the Burning Legion etc in the limelight, and it also very clearly set the stage for Legion. Without WoD, Legion couldn't have happened. Legion then let us defeat Archimonde, Kil'jaeden and Sargeras once and for all.

    BfA very specifically reintroduced Jaina, Sylvanas, the memory of Arthas, etc in the limelight, and it also very clearly set the stage for Shadowlands. Without BfA, Shadowlands couldn't have happened. Shadowlands then let us defeat the Jailer and finally put an end to Arthas' legacy of vengeance and sorrow. Each of his main victims got some closure and were made whole again, in different ways.

    Dragonflight very specifically reintroduced the Dragon Aspects, the elements, etc in the limelight, and it is also very clearly setting the stage for a Void showdown in 11.0. It's not like Iridikron is planning for the long run. What he's doing is now, here, right at this moment. The prophecy is being fulfilled and the Harbinger is setting its plan in motion to awaken Azeroth and let Azshara rule. We won't necessarily fight the Old Gods, we'll fight and conclude their legacy.

  15. #10055
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Without WoD, Legion couldn't have happened.
    The only thing you need for Legion to happen is someone to open the Felstorm. It doesn't even have to be Gul'dan, it could be e.g. Varimathras. Azshara could have done it in some 4D chess move to get the Heart of Azeroth created.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2023-07-23 at 10:17 AM.

  16. #10056
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The only thing you need for Legion to happen is someone to open the Felstorm. It doesn't even have to be Gul'dan, it could be e.g. Varimathras. Azshara could have done it in some 4D chess move to get the Heart of Azeroth created.
    His entire point is that there needs to be setup. If you put Legion after mop, there is no setup apart from Wrathion whining about the Legion coming. WoD build up Gul'dan so he could do it. What-if'ing doesn't help. Ever since they started having expansion stories flow over into each other we have seen this pattern. There is always side themes, but 90% of the setup and story carries over. Revamp or not: If 10.3 doesn't close out the void stuff (like BFA did haphazardly in the last patch ), 11.0 will be focused on void stuff.
    I will not reply to posts that are non-constructive or contain flaming and/or trolling.

  17. #10057
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    His entire point is that there needs to be setup. If you put Legion after mop, there is no setup apart from Wrathion whining about the Legion coming. WoD build up Gul'dan so he could do it. What-if'ing doesn't help. Ever since they started having expansion stories flow over into each other we have seen this pattern. There is always side themes, but 90% of the setup and story carries over. Revamp or not: If 10.3 doesn't close out the void stuff (like BFA did haphazardly in the last patch ), 11.0 will be focused on void stuff.
    See, Wrath was set up in Classic, not in TBC. Heck Cata had a stronger set up in TBC than it did in Wrath (Wrath had two minor raids setting up the Twilights but TBC had Sinestra showing up among the Dragonmaw which was a much more direct involvement of Deathwing). MoP had no set up and neither did WoD (not counting the pre-expansion events).

    I am not saying we are not getting some Void related but it absolutely could skip and be in 12.0

  18. #10058
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    See, Wrath was set up in Classic, not in TBC. Heck Cata had a stronger set up in TBC than it did in Wrath (Wrath had two minor raids setting up the Twilights but TBC had Sinestra showing up among the Dragonmaw which was a much more direct involvement of Deathwing). MoP had no set up and neither did WoD (not counting the pre-expansion events).

    I am not saying we are not getting some Void related but it absolutely could skip and be in 12.0
    That was before they had expansions flow over into eachother. WoD started their 2nd version of their development cycles as stated by Ion in that long Preach video. Im not going to 'this is 100% it', but there is a good chance they have a plan of handling larger story threads over the course of 2 expansions instead of one.
    I will not reply to posts that are non-constructive or contain flaming and/or trolling.

  19. #10059
    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post

    I'm 99% sure 11.0 isn't a World Revamp at this point, so my last hope is that 11.0 focuses on the playable race's lore and how they're going to handle the new threat, instead of helping foreigns and seeing all the plot from their perspective, as we got in Shadowlands and Dragonflight.
    Yeah, while I like the idea of Avaloren I am not exactly excited about going into a foreign continent and helping the locals deal with their problems. I'd rather deal with OUR problems.

  20. #10060
    When does the revamp of Uthers tomb pay off?
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

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