1. #11341
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foolicious View Post
    Could you give a TL; DR? I guess some proof that archimonde is reforming the legion?
    I honestly don't want to give them any attention for obvious clickbait speculation videos.
    Afrasiabi's One Legion In All Timelines brainfart has been quietly retconned out. The Archimonde we killed in WoD was from that timeline, our Archimonde is still out there regerating. He could come back with Legion remnant, co-operating or being manipulated by Denathrius (Archimonde wasn't the smartest one of the triumvirate).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    And Azewrath could just be a timeline the Legion claimed Azeroth against before Sargeras' imprisonment.
    If the One Legion In All Timelines managed to claim Azewrath-Azeroth 10k years ago, why would they still bother with us? They won already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ameonna View Post
    But Tyr is a titan keeper, sure paladins serve the Light but Tyr dont.
    Tyr smashes thing with the Light like any Paladin inspired by him.

    He might not serve the Light like mortal paladins but he clearly wields it.

  2. #11342
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Afrasiabi's One Legion In All Timelines brainfart has been quietly retconned out. The Archimonde we killed in WoD was from that timeline, our Archimonde is still out there regerating. He could come back with Legion remnant, co-operating or being manipulated by Denathrius (Archimonde wasn't the smartest one of the triumvirate).

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    If the One Legion In All Timelines managed to claim Azewrath-Azeroth 10k years ago, why would they still bother with us? They won already.
    Source? Cause that would be a big deal.

  3. #11343
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Afrasiabi's One Legion In All Timelines brainfart has been quietly retconned out. The Archimonde we killed in WoD was from that timeline, our Archimonde is still out there regerating. He could come back with Legion remnant, co-operating or being manipulated by Denathrius (Archimonde wasn't the smartest one of the triumvirate).
    Not the worst idea to retcon some of wod's lore, but from what i understand it's mostly speculation about archimonde. That the timelines work like almost every other multiverse is basically confirmed with timerifts now.
    If he assumes archimonde is dumb enough to be manipulated it's just another reason not to listen to him speculating because that is just wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Source? Cause that would be a big deal.
    Thats speculated in the video that was posted earlier. A few others have also summed it up shortly what he said if you don't want to watch it like me.

  4. #11344
    Quote Originally Posted by Ameonna View Post
    How do you explain that in WoD in 6.2 (the patch when they even explained that there was only one legion) how you explain that we fight alternate Socrethar who became a demon? He?

    And thats the problem here, if there is many differents timeline it means there is many different archimonde and kil'jaeden (who are not yet demons) it means there is even a Velen who did join the Legion, since thee is as many timeline as there is possibilities...
    I also think it was a bad idea, but its the simple explanation that they merge with their other selves the instant they become a demon, and that's what the gift of Sargeras is. Which I have to assume is also what happens when AU Draka did when she died, her alternate selves fused into one being at the time of death. And the Jailer capturing pieces of souls harvested from Frostmorne. And Sargeras & The Jailer used their knowledge of the Shadowlands to harness this power.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Source? Cause that would be a big deal.
    He's talking about a dumb Bellular video that claims this based on some new Datamined demons: But that's the wrong conclusion. Archimonde is not still alive because it was actually 2 Archimondes: Archimonde is still alive because the one we fought in HFC simply went to the Twisting Nether because Sargeras saved his soul. Sargeras wasn't imprisoned yet, so his death in WoD was only as permanent as it was the first time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Why are you saying huh to those things I said? They are not bound to the laws of Time. This is confirmed on multiple occasions.
    Its said they aren't bound to the laws of "life and death". But if they're on a single linear timeline, the same timeline the players are on, they're still experiencing "the laws of time" even though the Twisting Nether exists outside of the timeline the Bronze Dragons are defending. I guess that means they're not bound to "the bronze dragon's laws of time" but they're still experiencing time.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2023-07-29 at 02:27 PM.

  5. #11345
    Mechagnome Ameonna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    I think that influence was just that there was a legend that they took the name from not really any thing direct.
    Yes; they are not aware (at least when they made the order of silver hand) that Tyr was related to the titans or that they (as humans) were even the descendants of the vrykuls who served tyr (and thus titan forged)

    In any case, the Light have no part in all of these events since its all related to titans/Order.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I also think it was a bad idea, but its the simple explanation that they merge with their other selves the instant they become a demon, and that's what the gift of Sargeras is.
    Well its not what dungeon journal says about Socrethar, and we already killed him in TBC and if he died in tbc (thus reforming in the nether) how can be a ghost in alternate draenor? (after we killed him in shatrath) and not be in the nether?

    Its what i love with Socrethar from 6.2 is that in all the cases he is a division by zero ><like nothing makes snese with all the rules they establish in the same patch...

  6. #11346
    Quote Originally Posted by Ameonna View Post
    Well its not what dungeon journal says about Socrethar, and we already killed him in TBC and if he died in tbc (thus reforming in the nether) how can be a ghost in alternate draenor? (after we killed him in shatrath) and not be in the nether?

    Its what i love with Socrethar from 6.2 is that in all the cases he is a division by zero ><like nothing makes snese with all the rules they establish in the same patch...
    I really don't get why everybody immediately assumed that it would work that way to begin with. It'd make much more sense for them to become seperate demons. It's not like that'd be a problem for the Legion, they actually needed the manpower. As is, it was never anywhere near big enough to actually pull off Sargeras ambitions.

    But no, for some reason everybody convinced themself that all alternate versions must share the same soul, even though that only causes problems while serving no actual purpose.

  7. #11347
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I really don't get why everybody immediately assumed that it would work that way to begin with. It'd make much more sense for them to become seperate demons. It's not like that'd be a problem for the Legion, they actually needed the manpower. As is, it was never anywhere near big enough to actually pull off Sargeras ambitions.

    But no, for some reason everybody convinced themself that all alternate versions must share the same soul, even though that only causes problems while serving no actual purpose.
    It was literally blizzard that wanted us to believe that's the way it works. When wod came out we where like "ah yes an alternate universe. Makes sense. We know how it works".
    Then they made a lot of stupid clarifications that never made sense to begin with. They just pulled some answers out of their poket because whoever was asked had no idea how they could justify the rule of cool and the transition into legion with skipping half the story.
    There's a reason wod lore is hated.

  8. #11348
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolicious View Post
    It was literally blizzard that wanted us to believe that's the way it works. When wod came out we where like "ah yes an alternate universe. Makes sense. We know how it works".
    Then they made a lot of stupid clarifications that never made sense to begin with. They just pulled some answers out of their poket because whoever was asked had no idea how they could justify the rule of cool and the transition into legion with skipping half the story.
    There's a reason wod lore is hated.
    Except it wasn't Blizzard that first made that claim. In fact, i'm not entirely sure Blizzard even ever said that demons were unique at all. They said there's only one Legion (i.e. the organisation), not that there is only one of each demon. And besides, Socrethar's very existence refutes that idea.

  9. #11349
    I think if the Titans come it won't be them
    It will be a titan forged Illidan because IIRC the Titans are nowhere near full power
    That also means iridikron could stand a chance

  10. #11350
    Mechagnome Ameonna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I really don't get why everybody immediately assumed that it would work that way to begin with. It'd make much more sense for them to become seperate demons. It's not like that'd be a problem for the Legion, they actually needed the manpower. As is, it was never anywhere near big enough to actually pull off Sargeras ambitions.

    But no, for some reason everybody convinced themself that all alternate versions must share the same soul, even though that only causes problems while serving no actual purpose.
    Because its canon? Like did you read Illidan novel? Archimonde and Kazzak from wod dungeon journal? Tomb of Sargeras and A Thouands years war audio drama? as well as some legion quest? Because all of them states it

    All started in 6.2 ptr with a tweet from Afrasiabi which stated that the Legion is unique and there is only one version of each demons...

  11. #11351
    I still don't get why they haven't made it so all timelines outside of the main one are just small what-ifs that stop existing after we've been to them. This timeline debacle is exclusive to reality, so having them exist at all times would just be a headache for the lore, especially in the case of the demons.
    Sure, there could be some exceptions like Draenor, which had Kairoz link it to Azeroth permanently, but otherwise these different timelines should just be temporary anomalies.

    A suggestion for the demons however is to have their mortal forms in the different timelines still be seperate beings, but when they turn into demons their soul merges with the current one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    If Argus is any indication, killing Titans is very hard. But if Aggramar is any indication, destroying their physical form & mind controlling them is really easy.

    Its a safe bet this expansion ends with the Harbinger taking control of the Titans.
    Aggramar's physical body was already destroyed by Sargeras, we're fighting his tortured soul.

  12. #11352
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    If Argus is any indication, killing Titans is very hard. But if Aggramar is any indication, destroying their physical form & mind controlling them is really easy.

    Its a safe bet this expansion ends with the Harbinger taking control of the Titans.
    We never fought a single titan in their actual physical form and full power. Argus was a tortured and prematurely born world soul, who had been used as a battery for a few millenia. Aggramar was tortured, mind controlled and put into an avatar body - his real body was destroyed by Sargeras ages ago. Same with the rest of the Pantheon. The only titan weve seen in his real body was Sargeras himself, and it took the entire Pantheon+ Argus's power to merely imprison the dude.
    Theres nothing so far that indicates the Harbringer would suddenly be able to control titans - mature titans are immune to the voids corruption, its the entire reason the Void Lords started pumping out OGs in the first place. They can only go for world souls.
    If anything, its more likely that Xal is the harbringer, who used to be an OG herself, and since her own body was destroyed, she is now trying to corrupt the world soul of Azeroth this way.
    Last edited by Houle; 2023-07-29 at 07:58 PM.
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  13. #11353
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    I mean tbf with the whole Archimonde thing…
    Technically he didn’t die in the Nether.

    There’s the whole cinematic of him grabbing Gul’dan and throwing him through the portal back on Draenor then dying.

    Sure we fought him in the nether but he died on Draenor.
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  14. #11354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    I mean tbf with the whole Archimonde thing…
    Technically he didn’t die in the Nether.

    There’s the whole cinematic of him grabbing Gul’dan and throwing him through the portal back on Draenor then dying.

    Sure we fought him in the nether but he died on Draenor.
    Thats hard to understand since why didn't he regen or respawn quick in Legion. Honestly I think archi is just dead dead at this point.
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  15. #11355
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Archimondes fate is very much up in the air.

    Even in the interview where Kosak confirms that the Mythic phase is supposed to be canon
    , he literally starts out with "We might change it, this might not be canon".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Thats hard to understand since why didn't he regen or respawn quick in Legion. Honestly I think archi is just dead dead at this point.
    Demonic respawn isn't instantaneous.
    Argus just accelerated their natural respawn timer.

    Archimonde died and then the events of Legion happened right after.

    There is more than enough wiggle room to have Archimonde return, with him simply just now finishing his ressurection.


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  16. #11356
    Quote Originally Posted by Ameonna View Post
    Because its canon? Like did you read Illidan novel? Archimonde and Kazzak from wod dungeon journal? Tomb of Sargeras and A Thouands years war audio drama? as well as some legion quest? Because all of them states it

    All started in 6.2 ptr with a tweet from Afrasiabi which stated that the Legion is unique and there is only one version of each demons...
    ...people were utterly convinced it worked that way in 6.0. That's my whole point. So thanks for proving it, i guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Demonic respawn isn't instantaneous.
    Argus just accelerated their natural respawn timer.

    Archimonde died and then the events of Legion happened right after.

    There is more than enough wiggle room to have Archimonde return, with him simply just now finishing his ressurection.
    Also, Argus tethered their souls and let them circumvent the whole "dying in the Nether" thing, which is kinda relevant here. Kil'jaeden is likely toast given how shortly before Argus his death happened. Archimonde had quite a bit of time on the other hand.

  17. #11357
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Also, Argus tethered their souls and let them circumvent the whole "dying in the Nether" thing, which is kinda relevant here. Kil'jaeden is likely toast given how shortly before Argus his death happened. Archimonde had quite a bit of time on the other hand.
    Kil'jaeden exploded of fel. To me it felt like his mind is not able to sustain the corruption anymore.

    Archimonde could still be alive but honestly I don't care for him. He's never had a personnality nor motivations. He was a named sorcerer that couldn't even control his armies

  18. #11358
    Mechagnome Ameonna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    I mean tbf with the whole Archimonde thing…
    Technically he didn’t die in the Nether.

    There’s the whole cinematic of him grabbing Gul’dan and throwing him through the portal back on Draenor then dying.

    Sure we fought him in the nether but he died on Draenor.
    Listen to Tomb of Sargeras audio drama, they literaly tell you that Archimonde is gone for good like OUR Archimonde, not an alternate one is DEAD for good in wod it is exactly what the tomb of sargeras audio says and i think Bellular and ppl should listen to that audio drama :



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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    ...people were utterly convinced it worked that way in 6.0. That's my whole point. So thanks for proving it, i guess..
    Thats wrong, no one thought it worked like this in 6.0 lol, people even said that the Mannoroth that died in the cgi from wod was an alternate mannoroth since our was dead in war3...but devs in 6.2 completly made clear that the Mannoroth we kill in HFC (who also died from Grommash in the cgi) is the same in war3

    And they did this because, as with the Archimonde, no one gave a dam about killing alternate version of demons that already died in the 3rd war, thats why Afrasiabi came up with the "its the same demons for all timeline" because if not ppl would not care...

    So yeah no idea why you bring 6.0 up when i clearly pointed at 6.2 ptr...and people did not think of it working this way UNTIL AFRASIABI SIAD SO!!!!

  19. #11359
    Quote Originally Posted by Ameonna View Post
    So yeah no idea why you bring 6.0 up when i clearly pointed at 6.2 ptr...and people did not think of it working this way UNTIL AFRASIABI SIAD SO!!!!
    Because people were already talking about it in 6.0.This was already a topic before we even knew what 6.2 was going to be.

    Why exactly "our" Mannoroth dying in WC3 would be relevant when them being able to return from death is an established trait is rather questionable as well. Your timeline makes no sense.

  20. #11360
    Mechagnome Ameonna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Because people were already talking about it in 6.0.This was already a topic before we even knew what 6.2 was going to be.

    Why exactly "our" Mannoroth dying in WC3 would be relevant when them being able to return from death is an established trait is rather questionable as well. Your timeline makes no sense.
    It was never confirmed that they could return at this point in time. The only ones that were confirmed to be able to return were the Nathrezim back in Cataclysm.

    They specifically precised that Nathrezim could return but not other demons so people were not sure about others, and most said Mannoroth and Archimonde considering their death in war3 were impactful for the story (the death of Mannoroth was needed to free the orcs from the blood pact which is now a quesiton since he is not truly dead so how could his defeat break the paéct if he is not dead?)

    And btw, here is the answers : https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blo...ore-revelation

    Here the devs clearly tells you that there was only ONE version of demons.

    So here you can stop saying bull about "ho but its players faults" because no its not.

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