1. #15001
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zebir95 View Post
    "biggest class/spec overhaul"

    you mean putting abilities we already had on a new tree without any thought put into it to the point multiple reworks have been necessary through the expansion
    Yes. Putting all the abilities that never coexisted with each other and never in such number. And if they would be putting them "without any thought", then you don't even realise what a true mess it would be.

    But you seem to be adamant that DF is a content-less failure. And it took only a possibility of not having 10.3 to trigger that. Whatever, it is in my top 3 expansions so far.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2023-09-05 at 08:49 PM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  2. #15002
    Quote Originally Posted by Zebir95 View Post
    10.1.5= another reskinned legion assault
    10.1.7= yet another reskinned legion assault
    Hey, Legion Assaults had content. They had multi step scenarios with events and NPCs reacting to them.

  3. #15003
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaggler View Post
    They were all protodragons, some of them were elevated to dragons by Tyr and then they took eggs and infused them with titan juice, which the Incarnates opposed. It's not a really deep story, but everything is there and laid out.
    Do we know that though? We know Vyranoth didnt want the Titans messing with her eggs, but we don't know whether it was because Tyr did this in general, or because it was her eggs specifically. Based on her words she didnt seem too upset that the Aspects accepted the Order magic, just that Tyr forced it on HER eggs, which is a vital point.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  4. #15004
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    10.2 announcement will be VERY interesting. Maybe they'll explain its the last patch, maybe they'll clarify the future of patch models and what exactly is up with 11.0 (if they are being so transparent this year per Mike Ybara's nopirates).

    Also I don't think shorter expansions have any connection to M+ at all, and if anything it may have to do with too much player-bleed from launch to final patch historically for expansions.
    I don't think 10.2 will be the last raid tier of Dragonflight. But this does raise a predicament I just thought of. 10.2 will probably come out shortly after Blizzcon: So how does Blizzcon announce the next expansion without spoiling what happens in the rest of Dragonflight? The Shadowlands reveal was irrelevant to N'zoth. The Dragonflight reveal was delayed and unrelated to the Jailer. I guess this would mean that the premise of the next expansion is likely unrelated? Maybe it'll just be a cinematic of Thrall fighting some jobbers & a title reveal.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2023-09-05 at 08:58 PM.

  5. #15005
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    So what should be happening according to this is that the M+ dungeon rotation only has 6 dungeons for a month or so while the Megadungeon gets to run it's course as a storytelling device that everyone, including the lowest of casuals can run. And only then do you make it a M+ dungeon?

    Why not just have two extra dungeon taken from literally anywhere, and then also a raid for alternative gearing? As well as giving all the bonuses expected from a raid, like an AotC mount, raid armor sets, Glory Achievement, LFR, Mythic WF race, etc.

    I mean, by this logic why have raids at all? Why not just make all future raids megadungeons? Surely that would be better then?
    Oh mate, come on. This is an extreme response to my post and isn’t what my post was suggesting at all and you know it.

    No reason to get rid of any content. But we’ve seen expansions can end with the .2 patch. Just think a possible avenue for Blizzard to explore would be to end the expansion with a new dungeon or mega dungeon as opposed to a raid in a smaller .2.5 patch that won’t last as long as a “full” patch that to keep us tided over until the next expansion.

    Don’t really see how raiders are getting fucked over, it’s just Blizzard potentially recognising that mythic+ is their most played endgame these days and adjusting accordingly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Honestly, they should just bite the bullet and just tell the story in BOTH formats. Imo raids should be available as dungeons (and maybe use some of the dungeons as mini raids). Obviously the mechanics and encounters would work differently in the two formats but the assets can be shared. So have leveling dungeons and then have Megadungeons that also function as raids. Give everyone more content.
    Yeah this is a good shout. I like this.

  6. #15006
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Hey, Legion Assaults had content. They had multi step scenarios with events and NPCs reacting to them.
    I suppose the question that should be asked is whether it's better to get one big thing, or several smaller things.

    If just one of the many events in 10.1-10.1.7 was all we had, but it was also much more in-depth. Would that be objectively better than all these different ones that while more boring, can give far more varied rewards.

    Personally I think I do enjoy having several small things. Because while individually kinda boring, I do prefer the tiniest amount of new content, rather than the one big thing at the start that I would have been long since done with by now.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  7. #15007
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    But you seem to be adamant that DF is a content-less failure. And it took only a possibility of not having 10.3 Whatever, it is in my top 3 expansions so far.
    no it took me 10 months of no/low effort content to decide that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Hey, Legion Assaults had content. They had multi step scenarios with events and NPCs reacting to them.
    time rifts aren't bad. but yeah, it's the same concept we've already seen too many times now

  8. #15008
    I am starting to think Revamp is very likely if they are this flagrant with throwing around clues that the expansion is "cancelled".

    Also neither heritage quest has much set-up or closure for stuff, so I wouldn't say they point to much. If anything the Nelf quest being so one-off makes me think we're about to get a shit ton of Nelf stuff, the point that they didn't feel the need to do a meaty heritage for them to "make up" for things like the Forsaken quest(s) did with a rehaul of their culture/government.

  9. #15009
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    Oh mate, come on. This is an extreme response to my post and isn’t what my post was suggesting at all and you know it.

    No reason to get rid of any content. But we’ve seen expansions can end with the .2 patch. Just think a possible avenue for Blizzard to explore would be to end the expansion with a new dungeon or mega dungeon as opposed to a raid in a smaller .2.5 patch that won’t last as long as a “full” patch that to keep us tided over until the next expansion.

    Don’t really see how raiders are getting fucked over, it’s just Blizzard potentially recognising that mythic+ is their most played endgame these days and adjusting accordingly.
    But this is exactly my point though. What makes a Megadungeon inherently better for a smaller patch than a raid? Seems to me that the only reason it should be a megadungeon is because it somehow fits better in a minor patch, unlike a raid which is in a major one. But why does that necessarily have to be the case? Why couldnt we have a raid in 10.2.5?

    Is it because that would justify making it 10.3, which would ruin the idea of shorter expansions? Surely not.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  10. #15010
    Bloodsail Admiral Foreign Exchange Ztudent's Avatar
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    I mean the "We've had 2 major patch expansions prior" argument doesn't really work soundly when you consider what both of those did to the game.

    But, go on kings and queens. Definitely another brilliant argument.
    I no longer reply to quotations beyond if you're asking a genuine question or have a non-confrontational stance.


  11. #15011
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I am starting to think Revamp is very likely if they are this flagrant with throwing around clues that the expansion is "cancelled".

    Also neither heritage quest has much set-up or closure for stuff, so I wouldn't say they point to much. If anything the Nelf quest being so one-off makes me think we're about to get a shit ton of Nelf stuff.
    A world revamp is definitely the only thing that could possibly warrant ending the expansion early. And even then it would be a bit of a leap.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  12. #15012
    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Exchange Ztudent View Post
    I mean the "We've had 2 major patch expansions prior" argument doesn't really work soundly when you consider what both of those did to the game.
    One lead to the most loved post-Wrath expansion (Legion) with frequent updates, and one lead to a well received expansion (DF) with frequent updates. So...

  13. #15013
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Do we know that though? We know Vyranoth didnt want the Titans messing with her eggs, but we don't know whether it was because Tyr did this in general, or because it was her eggs specifically. Based on her words she didnt seem too upset that the Aspects accepted the Order magic, just that Tyr forced it on HER eggs, which is a vital point.
    The difference between proto-drakes & Incarnates are different mothers. And the Incarnates were Galakron'd immediate offspring.

    Seems like it was about the Titans using Order Magic to Ward Azeroths water against Yogg-Sauron. Maybe that caused the Incarnate's clutchlings to also become like the Dragonflight's offspring. It being an unintentional side-effect would wrap that plot up with a little bow. Though the question there is why are there still Proto-drakes? You would think all the water on the planet would be effected.

  14. #15014
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I am starting to think Revamp is very likely if they are this flagrant with throwing around clues that the expansion is "cancelled".
    don't put too much faith into blizzard. look at diablo 4: 10 years of development and it released with no content. now the game is dead after only 2 months.

    don't underestimate how inefficient and incompetent blizzard can be.

  15. #15015
    Quote Originally Posted by KayRule View Post
    If they fail to give this expansion a satisfying conclusion and turly have the next expansion be a part two, WoW storytelling is doomed. I cannot believe they would dare to do something so sheerly fucking stupid after only just now finally getting the story experience right.
    The last thing WoW needs to do is throw away an entire expansion's lore again and again. That's how we ended up with Shadowlands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I don't think 10.2 will be the last raid tier of Dragonflight. But this does raise a predicament I just thought of. 10.2 will probably come out shortly after Blizzcon: So how does Blizzcon announce the next expansion without spoiling what happens in the rest of Dragonflight? The Shadowlands reveal was irrelevant to N'zoth. The Dragonflight reveal was delayed and unrelated to the Jailer. I guess this would mean that the premise of the next expansion is likely unrelated? Maybe it'll just be a cinematic of Thrall fighting some jobbers & a title reveal.
    Maybe they're taking a page from FFXIV's book and having X.2 be the last expansion relevant patch, with X.3 being the lead in zone / patch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Status update from everyone's favorite certain Forsaken character!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yUamzm8OAo
    I can't tell if this is gaslighting for Sylvanas lovers or just tone deaf with everything she has done.
    Last edited by PenguinChan; 2023-09-05 at 09:09 PM.

  16. #15016
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Status update from everyone's favorite certain Forsaken character!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yUamzm8OAo
    I hate this.

  17. #15017
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    A world revamp is definitely the only thing that could possibly warrant ending the expansion early. And even then it would be a bit of a leap.
    10.2 datamining might have a clue about 11.0, an item/texture/achievement removal, the usual stuff.

  18. #15018
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I suppose the question that should be asked is whether it's better to get one big thing, or several smaller things.

    If just one of the many events in 10.1-10.1.7 was all we had, but it was also much more in-depth. Would that be objectively better than all these different ones that while more boring, can give far more varied rewards.

    Personally I think I do enjoy having several small things. Because while individually kinda boring, I do prefer the tiniest amount of new content, rather than the one big thing at the start that I would have been long since done with by now.
    I think many of the events need polish. What were the elemental storms? Why were they happening? What was their goal? And they had no real structure. They just started and ended without actually interacting with the players.
    With the Fyrakk Assaults, I assume we will found out what Igira was making in 10.2. Those imo were decent but very small.
    Then Time Rifts. I am sorry but where is the polish there? Everyone who wants to do the new casual content is stuck in a tiny area facing random mobs. Imagine if they were actual rifts and instead of getting a tiny cut area for the final boss, we had 5-6 MoP style scenarios but meant for large groups in different areas. Like the Legion one could take place in a Suramar under constant Legion siege, ending with us stopping Illidan in a fel ship coming to kill Tyrande. Just a 3-5 step scenario using entirely existing assets with some of the steps randomized.

    Then when it comes to rewards, I just think that the casual/world content should just have a structured reward ladder that keeps people engaged for multiple months instead of encouraging grind and ending in 2-3 weeks at most. The example I use as a reward track is the BfA Conquest track; do any number of activities that progress the track during the week and once you fill it in, you get a reward. First 8 weeks give a Normal Raid ilvl reward and then it gives Heroic ilvl rewards until the end of the season (all slots). Unlike the BfA track, make the rewards cumulative (so if you start late you can keep doing activities to fill multiple levels of the track up to the current step). So instead of some easy catch up, you actually have people engage with your content. Because you can make every content reward progression in the track, people can do whatever they like (and the cosmetics will keep them hopping around). Because the rewards would be good, people would actually do them. And they'd be far enough back from what people doing instanced content can get that they don't need to bother with them (but many might still do them for cosmetics).
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2023-09-05 at 09:08 PM.

  19. #15019
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zebir95 View Post
    10.0.7=useless new zone forgotten after 1 month
    10.1.5= another reskinned legion assault
    10.1.7= yet another reskinned legion assault

    30 minutes of quests aren't content. or better, they are not enough to sustain a patch by themselves.
    Of course shit this, shit that, in previous post it was "10 minute story patch", now everything is reskin and 'useless'...

    Eh, I'm tired of it. Keep arguing that expansion with patch every 8 week is low effort with someone else.

  20. #15020
    Quote Originally Posted by Zebir95 View Post
    don't put too much faith into blizzard. look at diablo 4: 10 years of development and it released with no content. now the game is dead after only 2 months.

    don't underestimate how inefficient and incompetent blizzard can be.
    I think it was more like 8 years of development with at least 4 of them wasted because they had no clear vision of what they wanted to do and reset things at least twice. Which yes, is incompetence.

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