1. #15141
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Amazing advice. Do you react same way every time someone want QoL change? "Transmog tab? Pointless, just don't delete transmog you want to keep" xD.

    There are countless way to limit degenerate gameplay, it's just artificial obstacle from you.
    What is considered "degrenerate gameplay" anyways.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  2. #15142
    I think 10.3 could fit if 11.0 releases late Nov.

    The problem I have is this…

    10.2 is more likely releasing at the cusp of Blizzcon, so how would they announce 11.0 without us even know what 10.3 is about?

    I mean has that ever happened? An expansion announcement without us knowing how the current ends?

    They would have to announce 10.3 AND 11.0 at blizz, which doesn’t seem like something they would do

  3. #15143
    Quote Originally Posted by Well Done Steak View Post
    I think 10.3 could fit if 11.0 releases late Nov.

    The problem I have is this…

    10.2 is more likely releasing at the cusp of Blizzcon, so how would they announce 11.0 without us even know what 10.3 is about?

    I mean has that ever happened? An expansion announcement without us knowing how the current ends?

    They would have to announce 10.3 AND 11.0 at blizz, which doesn’t seem like something they would do
    10.3 may not be as related to 11.0 as we think, and/or its a large expansion (revamp) with many storylines.

    Or 10.2 is the last major patch, which isn't unlikely, and will be revealed tomorrow.

  4. #15144
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    What is considered "degrenerate gameplay" anyways.
    I would guess something like fueling all knowledge from multiple chars into one tree. But honestly if I think about it, people who need stuff like that are doing exactly same mass alt leveling for splits.

  5. #15145
    Tomorrow's announcement is so close, I can taste it.

    - Emerald Dream! Gimme all those lovely little cosy nooks inside the dream!
    - Amirdrassil raid!
    - Druids for all races!
    - Paladins for all races (possibly kept for 10.2.5 though)!
    - Night Elf capital city!
    - Amazing transmog!
    - Resolution to the Primal Incarnates storyline!

    Predictions for the raid bosses:

    - Emerald Dream native creature(s) that's gone feral, stressed out by the invaders.
    - Some type of thicket with wild plants seeking to keep everyone out. Thorns, strangling vines, toxins, etc. Perhaps it's the tree itself lashing out at anybody in desperation.
    - A green dragon that has been corrupted in Fyrakk's vision, bursting with Shadowflame and twisted Life magic.
    - A Keeper of the Grove, perhaps with Dryads and stuff aiding it, turned by the living flame and now serving Fyrakk.
    - Some Druid of the Flame badass who's just pure fire and pure rage. Maybe a Night Elf or former dragon.
    - Possibly a manifestation of Death, inspired by the Night Elf souls and Ardenweald. Maybe some spirits turned bad and need to be cleansed from the tree?
    - Some unexpected type of event boss. Maybe a Moonwell or some shrine of Elune which just spouts out wild Life magic. A bit like the Dreamsurges.
    - Some ultimate manifestation of the Shadowflame, with emphasis on Shadow. Perhaps a being of the Void, just to remind us of that part of it.
    - Any remaining leaders of the Primalists and Druids of the Flame. Not sure who remains atm. They might be in charge of corrupting the tree and all wildlife around it.
    - Fyrakk himself, obviously. Perhaps we're being aided by Vyranoth in this one. Probably at the heart of the tree, up top or magically inside of it.

    I hope, dearly, that there will be some type of zone-specific feature involving herbs, fishing, or whatever. Something to really push us out into the pastures for some good old frolicking.

  6. #15146
    My one fear is that the raid takes place in the copy of the World Tree's capital city, and they design it as a raid first and foremost. So the layout gets fucked up similar to Dazar'alor and it isn't a well designed city if/when it gets transported to reality.

  7. #15147
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Tomorrow's announcement is so close, I can taste it.

    - Emerald Dream! Gimme all those lovely little cosy nooks inside the dream!
    - Amirdrassil raid!
    - Druids for all races!
    - Paladins for all races (possibly kept for 10.2.5 though)!
    - Night Elf capital city!
    - Amazing transmog!
    - Resolution to the Primal Incarnates storyline!

    Predictions for the raid bosses:

    - Emerald Dream native creature(s) that's gone feral, stressed out by the invaders.
    - Some type of thicket with wild plants seeking to keep everyone out. Thorns, strangling vines, toxins, etc. Perhaps it's the tree itself lashing out at anybody in desperation.
    - A green dragon that has been corrupted in Fyrakk's vision, bursting with Shadowflame and twisted Life magic.
    - A Keeper of the Grove, perhaps with Dryads and stuff aiding it, turned by the living flame and now serving Fyrakk.
    - Some Druid of the Flame badass who's just pure fire and pure rage. Maybe a Night Elf or former dragon.
    - Possibly a manifestation of Death, inspired by the Night Elf souls and Ardenweald. Maybe some spirits turned bad and need to be cleansed from the tree?
    - Some unexpected type of event boss. Maybe a Moonwell or some shrine of Elune which just spouts out wild Life magic. A bit like the Dreamsurges.
    - Some ultimate manifestation of the Shadowflame, with emphasis on Shadow. Perhaps a being of the Void, just to remind us of that part of it.
    - Any remaining leaders of the Primalists and Druids of the Flame. Not sure who remains atm. They might be in charge of corrupting the tree and all wildlife around it.
    - Fyrakk himself, obviously. Perhaps we're being aided by Vyranoth in this one. Probably at the heart of the tree, up top or magically inside of it.

    I hope, dearly, that there will be some type of zone-specific feature involving herbs, fishing, or whatever. Something to really push us out into the pastures for some good old frolicking.
    I just want elune to finally make an appearance.

  8. #15148
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Amazing advice. Do you react same way every time someone want QoL change? "Transmog tab? Pointless, just don't delete transmog you want to keep" xD.
    Apples and oranges. Transmog serves an actual function in resolving an actual problem: that there is a very limited amount of bag/bank space and thousands of armor pieces and weapons.

    What problem are you having to drop professions you want to keep for? To pick up engineering so that you can wyrmhole to an old zone slightly faster? To pick up alchemy so you can save a small amount of gold on consumables? To get a negligible increase in rousing element drops of elemental mobs, or more cloth from humanoids? In the current design setup, there isn't any actual "I'm forced to drop professions I want to keep recipes for!" problem to be resolved. You not only have unprecedented access to the crafts of other professions, you also have unprecedented easy access to your own alt's professions.

    There are countless way to limit degenerate gameplay, it's just artificial obstacle from you.
    Lol. "We can figure out a way to try and fix the problem being created" doesn't make the problem artificial. The fact that you are now having to come up with some hypothetical secondary method to block generative gameplay caused by your suggestion should be a red flag that it's not an artificial obstacle.


    Throwing "QoL" doesn't just make a change good. A person could argue that there doesn't need to be different professions, or recipe acquisition, at all. You could just bundle all crafting in the entire game into a single "Crafting" menu where every player can make anything with the mats. That is convenience, what some might call a QoL change. That doesn't make it good gameplay design.

    There has never been less of a need for account-wide professions than there is right now in DF with the current systems.
    Last edited by Hitei; 2023-09-06 at 02:13 PM.

  9. #15149
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    10.3 may not be as related to 11.0 as we think, and/or its a large expansion (revamp) with many storylines.

    Or 10.2 is the last major patch, which isn't unlikely, and will be revealed tomorrow.
    Only way .2 is the final patch is if 11.0 releases around Aug, which I don't see happening since a Nov release is near the 20th anni.
    Last edited by Well Done Steak; 2023-09-06 at 02:05 PM.

  10. #15150
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Vyranoth's turn was collossaly retarded, if entirely expected. The Baine school of moral realization where your siblings drinking extract of old god is fine, but god forbid they destroy the artificial realm set up by your elements or ally with people you'd already hired.

    Fyrakk though is surprisingly solid in this. Not retarded, not deviating from his character route, and for whatever reason I quite liked the line going on about how the druids of the flame don't need compensation since they just want to see things torched. A burning tree raid is what I had in mind for a BFA ending if it stuck to the Mists route, so it'd be a good aesthetic mix to avoid the Firelands repeat.
    my thoughts exactly, I'm more satisfied by the discourse of Fyrakk during the spying than during the cinematic that was released a few days ago.

    I don't like the fact that he pins the bathing into shadowflame on Iridikron when both Vyranoth and Iridikron sends him there

  11. #15151
    Quote Originally Posted by Well Done Steak View Post
    Only way .2 is the final patch is if 11.0 releases around Aug, which I don't see happening since a Nov release is near the 20th anni.
    Or they really do not care about the 20th anniversary. We have never seen them refer to it, so...

  12. #15152
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Tomorrow's announcement is so close, I can taste it.

    - Emerald Dream! Gimme all those lovely little cosy nooks inside the dream!
    - Amirdrassil raid!
    - Druids for all races!
    - Paladins for all races (possibly kept for 10.2.5 though)!
    - Night Elf capital city!
    - Amazing transmog!
    - Resolution to the Primal Incarnates storyline!

    Predictions for the raid bosses:

    - Emerald Dream native creature(s) that's gone feral, stressed out by the invaders.
    - Some type of thicket with wild plants seeking to keep everyone out. Thorns, strangling vines, toxins, etc. Perhaps it's the tree itself lashing out at anybody in desperation.
    - A green dragon that has been corrupted in Fyrakk's vision, bursting with Shadowflame and twisted Life magic.
    - A Keeper of the Grove, perhaps with Dryads and stuff aiding it, turned by the living flame and now serving Fyrakk.
    - Some Druid of the Flame badass who's just pure fire and pure rage. Maybe a Night Elf or former dragon.
    - Possibly a manifestation of Death, inspired by the Night Elf souls and Ardenweald. Maybe some spirits turned bad and need to be cleansed from the tree?
    - Some unexpected type of event boss. Maybe a Moonwell or some shrine of Elune which just spouts out wild Life magic. A bit like the Dreamsurges.
    - Some ultimate manifestation of the Shadowflame, with emphasis on Shadow. Perhaps a being of the Void, just to remind us of that part of it.
    - Any remaining leaders of the Primalists and Druids of the Flame. Not sure who remains atm. They might be in charge of corrupting the tree and all wildlife around it.
    - Fyrakk himself, obviously. Perhaps we're being aided by Vyranoth in this one. Probably at the heart of the tree, up top or magically inside of it.

    I hope, dearly, that there will be some type of zone-specific feature involving herbs, fishing, or whatever. Something to really push us out into the pastures for some good old frolicking.
    There will 100% be a boss related to Xavius. Whether it’s an echo, memory or remnant. He is the quintessential Emerald Dream villain. I know we fought him in the Nightmare before but it would be a massive missed opportunity if Blizz don’t do this. It would be so much better than just a random plant, green dragon or elemental boss. Could even be in the tree form that Malfurion trapped him in before.

    Also think there will be an overtly Void themed boss. We saw the “remnant of the void” that Ysera’s ghost walked towards at the end of the Nightmare raid. This seems like the perfect opportunity to explore it further.

  13. #15153
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Or they really do not care about the 20th anniversary. We have never seen them refer to it, so...
    Of course they care...

    Not only is it the 20th anni for wow, but the 30th for the warcraft franchise AND the 10th exp

  14. #15154
    Quote Originally Posted by Well Done Steak View Post
    Of course they care...

    Not only is it the 20th anni for wow, but the 30th for the warcraft franchise AND the 10th exp
    Several game devs lately have shown little interest in celebrating big anniversaries. The biggest sign that Blizzard cares about anniversaries is the 15th anniversary event in the Caverns of Time which is still not very huge.

    While I think it's unlikely, there's still a decent chance that these cornerstone dates will not affect the next expansion.

  15. #15155
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    What is considered "degrenerate gameplay" anyways.
    Gameplay that represents a deterioration of the intended loop in an excessive and unhealthy way. Like making an evoker, leveling it to 70, doing KP quests, deleting the character, and repeating the process dozens or hundreds of times to max out profession trees. Or the absurd double group order bait farms that were popular early on in DF.

  16. #15156
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Several game devs lately have shown little interest in celebrating big anniversaries. The biggest sign that Blizzard cares about anniversaries is the 15th anniversary event in the Caverns of Time which is still not very huge.

    While I think it's unlikely, there's still a decent chance that these cornerstone dates will not affect the next expansion.
    Perhaps they have something hugged planned and want it to be a surprise

  17. #15157
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    I do not think that it would discourage interactions between players. It might even increase it. The vast majority of players would not level all professions. Hell, I do not think that there are a lot of players that even level their two professions.

    I do not think that it would affect Work Orders that much, because, let us be real, they are already dead.

    Account-wide progression is like account-wide quests and reputations. A necessary step for the health of the game. Because is such fun to level fishing in your fifth character, right? Or re-learn and find again those rare recipes, right?
    That you think work orders are "already dead" tells me how frighteningly little you understand of the actual state of professions. And that you don't understand that more players would level multiple professions if available account-wide than currently level professions on alts, thus lowering their need to purchase items from other players discourages interactions without the need for someone to "level all professions" tells me you don't understand basic player logic enough to declare anything "for the health of the game".

    If you find fishing unfun, why are you leveling it on a fifth alt for absolutely no reason?

  18. #15158
    Quote Originally Posted by Revamp Man View Post
    Do you know exactly where they were when they lost their families
    Do you? Either way the improbability of the situation (which is huge) is irrelevant. Bolvar would have known if Calia was the mother of his daughter. If the developers intended it, they could have established if Taelia or Lilian was Calia's daughter at a point in the story that made sense, but they didn't. At this point it would not make sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    If they are taking this long with Tyr, I can definitely see him being either the gate between DF and 11.0 (10.2.5 awakening?) or there being a patch just to deal with him.

    The Tyr's Guard feel like absolute bait and the vibe I get is that they are setting Tyr up to be this wonderful nice guy when that's... not the case we're getting from the hints. I think he's going to go full Evangelion on the baby paladins and they are gonna fight each other.
    Based on Tyr's transcripts, he seems like they were setting him up to be a twist villain, but then they showed him sacrificing his life to defend the mortals. I think that eliminated the possibility of Tyr being a Villain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Also the Forsaken Heritage quest makes it sound like the reclamation of Lordaeron happened after the timeskip.
    I think it happened the way it was deployed.

    Shadowlands > Removing the Blight > Time Skip > Scarlet Crusade Siege

    Although what is extremely jarring is for any new players, it feels like the Dark Ranger Customization questline & the Heritage Armor Questline is one questline. So immediately after fighting the Giant Blight Kaiju the city is getting sieged by Scarlets, with nothing indicating there is a 5 year time skip between those two quests.

  19. #15159
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I think it happened the way it was deployed.

    Shadowlands > Removing the Blight > Time Skip > Scarlet Crusade Siege

    Although what is extremely jarring is for any new players, it feels like the Dark Ranger Customization questline & the Heritage Armor Questline is one questline. So immediately after fighting the Giant Blight Kaiju the city is getting sieged by Scarlets, with nothing indicating there is a 5 year time skip between those two quests.
    Except Voss claims "just as we got settled" or something similar when you first talk to her, and EVERYONE is in the same place as they were in the first questline. Nothing implies that five years passed and as you said it feels and acts as though the two quests are just one long megaquest.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Based on Tyr's transcripts, he seems like they were setting him up to be a twist villain, but then they showed him sacrificing his life to defend the mortals. I think that eliminated the possibility of Tyr being a Villain.
    That very same quest hints that Tyr will fight Alexstrazsa, implying he will be an antagonist.

  20. #15160
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    You don't lose your recipes or progress. And it doesn't have to be account-wide, if only way to earn knowledge will be quests on max level, it will be exactly as limiting at it is now.
    I don't think that's a good idea because it suddenly feels like a disadvantage to have alts. That's my problem with FFXIV: My character can be anything so they feel like they don't have much of an identity & making an alt is going to make me re-do a ton of content that was only fun exactly once. Maybe if they could balance it perfectly where its neither adventageous or disadventageous to have one character or many characters it could work, but if not, full stop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Except Voss claims "just as we got settled" or something similar when you first talk to her, and EVERYONE is in the same place as they were in the first questline. Nothing implies that five years passed and as you said it feels and acts as though the two quests are just one long megaquest.
    Then when did the Scarlet Propaganda get put up? Why are they attacking Lordaeron City if it was just uninhabitable minutes ago? That doesn't make sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    That very same quest hints that Tyr will fight Alexstrazsa, implying he will be an antagonist.
    If one of them gets mind-controlled, sure, but Blizzard has never been big on creative foreshadowing.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2023-09-06 at 02:48 PM.

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