1. #17201

  2. #17202
    Quote Originally Posted by Well Done Steak View Post
    Remember how blizz said they want sepulcher to be a 2 final boss raid?

    I'm thinking Fyrakk is "anduin"...

    Then in 10.2.5 we're going to get an extra mini raid with 2 or 3 bosses with a titanic theme. Either tyr or Odyn as final boss. My guess is Odyn.

    Then 2.7 will close out the exp and 11.0 Release in aug
    Is the Vyranoth questline available on the ptr? Seems like we visit odyn with her and we will finally know which side odyn is on.



    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Speaking of Kirin Tor... what was the point of Khadgar coming to the Isles?
    He also comes with us to defend the dream. As far as i can tell he doesn't have any role in the campaign but he is there i guess.

  3. #17203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foolicious View Post
    Is the Vyranoth questline available on the ptr? Seems like we visit odyn with her and we will finally know which side odyn is on.




    He also comes with us to defend the dream. As far as i can tell he doesn't have any role in the campaign but he is there i guess.
    It doesnt seem we are there to deal with Odyn at all, more like we ask him for the stormdragons. Which is the quest with wrathion and vyranoth.

    No hints for Odyn being evil it seems like... maybe later idk.

  4. #17204
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolicious View Post
    Is the Vyranoth questline available on the ptr? Seems like we visit odyn with her and we will finally know which side odyn is on.




    He also comes with us to defend the dream. As far as i can tell he doesn't have any role in the campaign but he is there i guess.
    Oh shit do we??

    No way!

    God that might be the set up then. Man do I want to stomp out that titanic asshole so bad

  5. #17205
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    The forsaken council current holds.

    Velonara Leader of the dark rangers who were Sylvanas personal troops and who took part in the battle for dark shore.

    Faranell Leader of the Apothecary who helped make and deploy the blight under Sylvanas and was at the battle for dark shore.

    Belmont Leader of the forsaken assassins, also apart of dark shore.

    Lilian Voss Who was at the front of the horde war campaign.

    Calia the only member not involved.

    Every one but Calia and Voss are long standing members of forsaken society and have been leaders since classic or cata and all fully backed Sylvnas until she left them.
    I'm guessing you're one of the "anything that the Night Elves don't like is a war crime" people. Battle for Darkshore was a very standard conflict for this franchise. Do you mean the raising of undead because they already established that's completely consensual; they even added that context to make it explicitly clear. A forsaken can just will themselves to death.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Again we have all of BFA. If you are only “repentant” after your leader calls you nothing and abandons you then you don’t have a leg to stand on. And yes if you were a card carrying Nazi took part in Nazi operations and were fully onboard until you heard of Hitlers death, you are in fact a Nazi.
    I bet you're going to hate that the repentant Fire Druids that want to help too.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2023-09-08 at 03:49 PM.

  6. #17206
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    No hints for Odyn being evil it seems like... maybe later idk.
    You have to fight two people before him in the Halls of Valor, and then "confront" Odyn. So it's not just walking in and talking to him.

  7. #17207
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Ya who can forget when Germany didn’t punish any one other then Hitler and it was still ran by the same Nazi members minus him after the war right?
    ...you might want to check some history books. It took a while to get replacements trained up.

    For that matter, allying up with factions that were recently enemies was a pretty common passtime in medieval Europe.

  8. #17208
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I'm guessing you're one of the "anything that the Night Elves don't like is a war crime" people.
    Genocide tends to be one yes.

    Do you mean the raising of undead because they already established that's completely consensual;
    it’s not as stated explicitly by Sira.

    I bet you're going to hate that the repentant Fire Druids that want to help too.
    Come back when they commit Genocide and then want to help out and I’ll feel the same about them.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  9. #17209
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    You have to fight two people before him in the Halls of Valor, and then "confront" Odyn. So it's not just walking in and talking to him.
    We had to do that in the Halls of Valor to prove ourselves before, so it isn't like this is a new thing to come in and fight and confront him.

  10. #17210
    Damn those Night Elves.

    Being cross with a group that genocided them. Spoiled brats.

  11. #17211
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    ...you might want to check some history books. It took a while to get replacements trained up.

    For that matter, allying up with factions that were recently enemies was a pretty common passtime in medieval Europe.
    How many of theses never faced any consequences and stayed in there positions?

    Because that’s the state of the forsaken with 3/5 of the leaders holding such roles under Sylvanas, one being part of her top operatives during the war and one uninvolved.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  12. #17212
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    it’s not as stated explicitly by Sira.
    Sira doesn't say anything like this. She hated Tyrande before she was raised & continued to hate her the same amount after. The tormented dead she refers to are the people who died following Tyrande.

    Factor 2, hilariously, the Burning was sanctioned by Elune: She needed to get a lot of souls to Ardenweald really fast. This implies Elune might have even burned the tree herself. It's not like nelves are susceptible to any natural disasters anytime soon.

    Also you don't get to complain about genocide anymore when Elune offered every elf who died at Teldrassil the option to come back to life & they chose to make a new tree instead like an idiot. This entire new crisis only exists because of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Damn those Night Elves. Being cross with a group that genocided them. Spoiled brats.
    It was the will of Elune. I know that's wild this storyline was this big of a clusterfuck, but that's canon. Just like how she keeps giving them World Trees even though they serve no purpose other than a thing that's susceptible to corruption. Elune seems to constantly be giving the night elves just enough rope to hang themselves with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    We had to do that in the Halls of Valor to prove ourselves before, so it isn't like this is a new thing to come in and fight and confront him.
    Confronting him, (for all the rape allegories) has very different connotations to some sort of honorable challenge.

    Seems like Tyr won't do a double double heel turn & be evil as Odyn is going to be blamed for whatever happened to the Incarnate's eggs.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2023-09-08 at 04:18 PM.

  13. #17213
    Confronting him, (for all the rape allegories) has very different connotations to some sort of honorable challenge.

    Seems like Tyr won't do a double double heel turn & be evil as Odyn is going to be blamed for whatever happened to the Incarnate's eggs.
    My point is that he's been shown to be a "prove yourself worthy to come before me" sort of deal. So some folks going" omg we're gonna confront him because he's evil" is a bit premature. Though I'll grant the usage of confront is a bit more on the negative side of things.

    But again, people are extrapolating a lot of stuff from some datamined stage descriptions.

  14. #17214
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    How many of theses never faced any consequences and stayed in there positions?

    Because that’s the state of the forsaken with 3/5 of the leaders holding such roles under Sylvanas, one being part of her top operatives during the war and one uninvolved.
    Check the dates. Some of those didn't even get arrested until decades after the war. And there's a lot more on the lower rungs, too.

  15. #17215
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Sira doesn't say anything like this. She hated Tyrande before she was raised & continued to hate her the same amount after. The tormented dead she refers to are the people who died following Tyrande.
    You should really go back to making up fanfic based on things blizzard haven’t touched instead of trying to dispute things that have actually been covered.

    From shadows rising.

    “I see a sad and defeated thing that has chosen a path,” Tyrande replied. “Nothing more.”

    “I chose nothing!” Sira shrieked, and Maiev stepped forward, so close her shoulder brushed Tyrande’s. “I did not choose to return. I would never choose to return. Everything inside me is ugliness and rage, and the only thing that quiets the scream is death. For what was done to me, I will see a hundredfold done upon this cursed realm!”
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  16. #17216
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    You should really go back to making up fanfic based on things blizzard haven’t touched instead of trying to dispute things that have actually been covered.

    From shadows rising.
    I think you might be wasting your time.

    I think this poster's nose is so far up Sylvanas' posterior that he might actually be smelling the blight directly.

  17. #17217
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    You should really go back to making up fanfic based on things blizzard haven’t touched instead of trying to dispute things that have actually been covered.
    Then Sira was coerced into working for the Jailer, because only the Jailer can force a dead person to live, ala Sylvanas. Because the quest goes out of its way to show that raising an unwilling elf turns them into a hostile wisp.

    Or Sira's just lying to make Tyrande feel bad because that's not the sentiment she expresses in the questline where she is raised at all: Her greatest desire is revenge against Tyrande.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    I think this poster's nose is so far up Sylvanas' posterior that he might actually be smelling the blight directly.
    Yes. Just like Elune does. The Battle for Ardenweald cinematic where Elune directly saves Sylvanas? That was so smugly satisfying.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2023-09-08 at 04:32 PM.

  18. #17218
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Check the dates. Some of those didn't even get arrested until decades after the war. And there's a lot more on the lower rungs, too.
    None of the forsaken council members were on the lower rungs they were all high stationed members equivalent to none of the people who got arrested decades later.

    We already had a time skip and none of them members have faced even delayed consequences.

    and of those who were arrested later how many of them kept on in there roles the whole time or even got promoted to even higher roles like representing all of Germany?
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  19. #17219
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    None of the forsaken council members were on the lower rungs they were all high stationed members equivalent to none of the people who got arrested decades later.

    We already had a time skip and none of them members have faced even delayed consequences.

    and of those who were arrested later how many of them kept on in there roles the whole time or even got promoted to even higher roles like representing all of Germany?
    Too many. Germany actually dealing with its baggage didn't happen until the 60s. Before that, people were perfectly happy to just pretend everything was peachy.

  20. #17220
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Then Sira was coerced into working for the Jailer, because only the Jailer can force a dead person to live, ala Sylvanas.
    This is stupidly wrong.

    Dread lords
    Gul’dan
    Arthas
    Liches
    KJ
    Archamound
    Every random necromancer out there.

    Your fanfic is bad and you should feel bad.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

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