1. #17321
    Quote Originally Posted by Zers Editor View Post
    The fish is from Emerald Dream.

  2. #17322
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    The fish is from Emerald Dream.
    Red herring imo. The saddle doesn't look very Emerald Dreamy, or does it? I think it's more Azsharan.

  3. #17323
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    as I said the difference is the last 30 years. The goats aren’t trying to convert people because of the death of Xe'ra who did try to do so to Illidan and the alt goats are both the TBC goats and the light forged who showed up after the “one legions” defeat with there Xe'ra still Alive who joined Yrel.

    Every thing is the same up to the point Garrosh showed 30 years ago and the and them not fleeing Draenor and then us going back in BFA.
    Which is a fundamental shift that is explained in the lore. Without demons to fight, the Naaru shifted the Draenei towards conquering Draenor for their own purposes. It doesn't matter if it was 30 years or 300 years, the point is that the Lightbound experienced a significant shift in history from the playable Draenei race who experienced genocide at the hands of demonic backed Orcs, versus the Lightbound who lost Velen in WoD and didn't experience a genocide. That alters their purpose, their motivations, and their general outlook as a race and makes the Lightbound VERY different from the standard Draenei we know and love.

    The Mag'har (and Orcs) know them, the other races of Azeroth do not.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2023-09-14 at 01:26 PM.

  4. #17324
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    The fish is from Emerald Dream.
    Why would they design a random flying Koi for just the dream? I think the "Southsea" one is a joke but it's a weird choice that doesn't match the rest of the new animals that are overtly nature/druidic.

  5. #17325
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Red herring imo. The saddle doesn't look very Emerald Dreamy, or does it? I think it's more Azsharan.
    Eh, it's literally found in the zone.

  6. #17326
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Eh, it's literally found in the zone.
    What I'm saying is that Blizzard intentionally placed it there as a red herring.

  7. #17327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Yes it is. Illidan will be back as the Bolvar/Magni/Khadgar of an Expansion, not killed off at the start of it.
    What ever you say.

  8. #17328
    Pandaren Monk AngerFork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Thought of another way to explain my theory about the expansions, and the pattern they have. Builders and Spenders (inspired by abilities in WoW).

    A builder expansion build towards something. It comes with different themes and stories to tell. But there's an overarching meta-narrative working in the background.

    A spender expansion is the culmination of something. It goes all-in with a specific theme, and is usually a large scale expansion with a bigger scope than the last.

    Core Expansions

    • The Burning Crusade
    • Wrath of the Lich King
    • Cataclysm
    • Mists of Pandaria

    Modern Expansions

    • Builder - Warlords of Draenor
    • Spender - Legion
    • Builder - Battle for Azeroth
    • Spender - Shadowlands
    • Builder - Dragonflight
    • Spender - 11.0

    Warlords of Draenor had themes such as the Iron Horde, the Draenei and Mag'har, Ogres and Botani, and much more. But it built towards the impending return of the Burning Legion.

    Battle for Azeroth had themes such the faction war, N'Zoth, the Heart of Azeroth, Azshara, and much more. But it built towards the impending return of the forces of Death.

    Dragonflight has themes such as the Primalists and the Primal Incarnates, the elements, dragons and the Dragon Aspects, and much more. But it builds towards the impending return of the Void.

    Legion, Shadowlands, and 11.0, meanwhile, go all in on that theme which was teased in the expansion prior.
    This is largely how I've been looking at the recent expansions as well, though in a slightly different fashion. I've more seen it in terms of antagonists built, then used.

    Warlords was themed around the Iron Horde without a doubt, but if I'm looking for an overall main character at the center of the expansion, I'm not sure there's a better choice than Gul'dan. He was the mana battery that was used for the portal, then was consistently a thorn in everyone's side throughout the expansion eventually being the trigger for Legion. He was killed off mid-expansion, but not before his damage had been more than done.

    BfA was centered around the Alliance/Horde war with N'Zoth as a driving force, but the overall main character at the center of everything was Sylvanas. From Teldrassil to the way she fought with her own people (Saurfang & Baine especially) to the depths she was willing to sink to while fighting the Alliance, she was a constant threat to anyone living and most of the Forsaken too. She was the trigger for us to enter the Shadowlands, and again was defeated in the middle raid tier.

    With DF, this is a bit trickier. This expansion has had several characters that have had their time in the sun, notably the aspects from each flight. Yet at the center of it all would appear to be one specific dragon, Iridikron. Even when he was imprisoned at the beginning, a lot of Raszageth's actions can be traced back to her partnership with the Primalists & Iridikron. He very much was behind sending the Dracthyr & Fyrakk down to Zaralek to deal with Aberrus & Shadowflame and was nearly the reason for Murozond's rise. Even the theme for the next patch appears from the trailer to be based on Fyrakk's insanity which can be traced to Iridikron.

    I suspect whatever device he was empowering before escaping through that Void portal will be a large part of the theme for 11.0.

  9. #17329
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Which is a fundamental shift that is explained in the lore. Without demons to fight, the Naaru shifted the Draenei towards conquering Draenor for their own purposes. It doesn't matter if it was 30 years or 300 years, the point is that the Lightbound experienced a significant shift in history from the playable Draenei race who experienced genocide at the hands of demonic backed Orcs, versus the Lightbound who lost Velen in WoD and didn't experience a genocide. That alters their purpose, their motivations, and their general outlook as a race and makes the Lightbound VERY different from the standard Draenei we know and love.

    The Mag'har (and Orcs) know them, the other races of Azeroth do not.
    The time frame absolutely matters, you don’t swap from ten thousand years of tech tactics and so on in such a ridiculously short time span as 30 years when you live thousands.

    the light forged would understand there tech, understand there state of mind, and know what tactics they are likely to use in both approaching allies and dealing with threats.

    All the Mag’har would know is how to get killed by them.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  10. #17330
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    The time frame absolutely matters, you don’t swap from ten thousand years of tech tactics and so on in such a ridiculously short time span as 30 years when you live thousands.

    the light forged would understand there tech, understand there state of mind, and know what tactics they are likely to use in both approaching allies and dealing with threats.

    All the Mag’har would know is how to get killed by them.
    Again, the Lightforged are the Draenei who stayed on Argus to fight the Legion. The Lightbound are alternate versions of the Draenei who fled Argus with Velen thousands of years ago and settled on Draenor. If anything, standard Draenei would be more knowledgeable of the Lightbound than the Lightforged, and the Lightbound are fundamentally different from them as well due to the events that occurred in WoD and its aftermath.

  11. #17331
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    This is largely how I've been looking at the recent expansions as well, though in a slightly different fashion. I've more seen it in terms of antagonists built, then used.

    Warlords was themed around the Iron Horde without a doubt, but if I'm looking for an overall main character at the center of the expansion, I'm not sure there's a better choice than Gul'dan. He was the mana battery that was used for the portal, then was consistently a thorn in everyone's side throughout the expansion eventually being the trigger for Legion. He was killed off mid-expansion, but not before his damage had been more than done.

    BfA was centered around the Alliance/Horde war with N'Zoth as a driving force, but the overall main character at the center of everything was Sylvanas. From Teldrassil to the way she fought with her own people (Saurfang & Baine especially) to the depths she was willing to sink to while fighting the Alliance, she was a constant threat to anyone living and most of the Forsaken too. She was the trigger for us to enter the Shadowlands, and again was defeated in the middle raid tier.

    With DF, this is a bit trickier. This expansion has had several characters that have had their time in the sun, notably the aspects from each flight. Yet at the center of it all would appear to be one specific dragon, Iridikron. Even when he was imprisoned at the beginning, a lot of Raszageth's actions can be traced back to her partnership with the Primalists & Iridikron. He very much was behind sending the Dracthyr & Fyrakk down to Zaralek to deal with Aberrus & Shadowflame and was nearly the reason for Murozond's rise. Even the theme for the next patch appears from the trailer to be based on Fyrakk's insanity which can be traced to Iridikron.

    I suspect whatever device he was empowering before escaping through that Void portal will be a large part of the theme for 11.0.
    You are correct. I agree, and what you say about these three characters is something I've also felt must be true. In my earlier versions of this theory, I've often brought up recurring characters and elements, such as Khadgar, Outland, Jaina, the Lich King, Thrall, etc., with Gul'dan, Sylvanas, and Iridikron being these "key" figures that unlock the next part of the story.

    You could say Garrosh was the first, who gave us WoD after MoP. I think that's when this type of development started. Tom Chilton said as much in interviews at the time, IIRC.

    For anyone in doubt, it's also important to look at it this way:

    Each story continues until it culminates.

    So it's not weird that N'Zoth is in BfA, even if the Void has its final showdown in 11.0. Because the Void storyline is last (after Disorder and Death), it had more time in which to keep developing. It's a longer story.

    You could argue it needed all this time, too. The Disorder story started all the way back in the RTS games, as did the one about Death. The last of the three (Void) only really started in WoW. Maybe you could argue it had some traces back in Warcraft 2 and 3 with Deathwing, Thrall, and various "Ancient One" units, but it was nowhere near as defined a concept as the Burning Legion or the Scourge.

    In WoW, the "Death" story continued from Vanilla all the way until Shadowlands. Then it pretty much stopped.

    The "Disorder" (Burning Legion) story stopped even earlier. It went from Vanilla to Legion.

    The "Void" (Old Gods) trilogy is still ongoing. It will have had 10 expansions' worth of exposure before it finally ends, which it pretty cool.
    Last edited by Worldshaper; 2023-09-14 at 01:57 PM.

  12. #17332
    I think the only things that will directly carry into the theme of 11.0 are the Primalists and Amirdrassil blooming. Tyr will have something to do with it as well.

  13. #17333
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Again, the Lightforged are the Draenei who stayed on Argus to fight the Legion. The Lightbound are alternate versions of the Draenei who fled Argus with Velen thousands of years ago and settled on Draenor. If anything, standard Draenei would be more knowledgeable of the Lightbound than the Lightforged, and the Lightbound are fundamentally different from them as well due to the events that occurred in WoD and its aftermath.
    Again the light bound are both the light forged who show up with Xe’ra after we leave and the Draenei who fled argus and we helped in Wod.

    The light forged would know more about how they make war then the standard Draenei who spent most of the time fleeing instead of fighting.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  14. #17334
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Again the light bound are both the light forged who show up with Xe’ra after we leave and the Draenei who fled argus and we helped in Wod.

    The light forged would know more about how they make war then the standard Draenei who spent most of the time fleeing instead of fighting.
    The lightbound are just evil baby AU lightforged. They haven't spent thousands of years fighting the legion.

    They're just the same vanilla draenie from wod who were then radicalized due to not having the legion to check them. It seems the LB were infused with light in a similar way as the LF, but don't have nowhere near the combat experience the LF.

  15. #17335
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The dread lord willingly converted. He wasn't forced to do so. Further, the Lightforged aren't currently attempting to convert everyone by force on Azeroth.
    According to the Lightforged, that is.

  16. #17336
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    ChatGPT has taken over leak season smh.

    But anyways can’t wait for Blizzcon to reveal no Yrel again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Chen isn't a Monk

  17. #17337
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Well Done Steak View Post
    The lightbound are just evil baby AU lightforged. They haven't spent thousands of years fighting the legion.

    They're just the same vanilla draenie from wod who were then radicalized due to not having the legion to check them. It seems the LB were infused with light in a similar way as the LF, but don't have nowhere near the combat experience the LF.
    They mention Xe’ra the army of the light and have all there tech in quest, they should line up with our light forged up till Turalyon and Alleria join.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  18. #17338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Red herring imo. The saddle doesn't look very Emerald Dreamy, or does it? I think it's more Azsharan.
    https://www.wowhead.com/news/more-dr...48#whiskerfish

    Considering everything else on that list is from the Emerald Dream, I'd find it odd if the Whiskerfish WASN'T from the Dream.
    Plus, a magical flying koi just SCREAMS spirit animal. It doesn't have the physiological components to justify flying unlike other flying creatures we've encountered (no wings, no apparent gas-sac like Sporebats or Marshfangs, etc.)
    Last edited by Auxis; 2023-09-14 at 02:35 PM.
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  19. #17339
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    According to the Lightforged, that is.
    According to Lothraxion himself. We also go through the Lightforging process during the recruitment quest so we know what it entails. It's not something that can be force by its nature since it allows choice. Now whatever X'era was trying to do to Illidan was involuntary but we have no idea if that is something anyone other than her can replicate and how easily she can do it.

  20. #17340
    Quote Originally Posted by Auxis View Post
    https://www.wowhead.com/news/more-dr...48#whiskerfish

    Considering everything else on that list is from the Emerald Dream, I'd find it odd if the Whiskerfish WASN'T from the Dream.
    Plus, a magical flying koi just SCREAMS spirit animal. It doesn't have the physiological components to justify flying unlike other flying creatures we've encountered (no wings, no apparent gas-sac like Sporebats or Marshfangs, etc.)
    I think the point is that it doesn't fit the vibe or aesthetic of the other Dream animals other than it can fly and it has some magical effects. Meaning there is a chance it was just added as a smokescreen and/or tease for what the true purpose of the model is.

    Like, it's the only new Dream model without recolors? Really?

    It would be like putting the Runesaber mount in Highmaul before Legion. Yeah, technically it KIND of fits... but?

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