1. #17341
    I don’t know why people particularly want a 10.3. It’s not necessary. The main storyline of the expansion is the Primal Incarnates, of which seems to be due resolution in 10.2. The Tyr storyline is an important one but it’s not the primary narrative. It could easily be resolved in a 10.2.5 story patch or be used as a plot hook for a future expansion.

    Just give us fated raids, a new or revamped dungeon and some story and world content in 10.2.5 with the next expansion looming and everyone’s happy. The main story of DF is resolved, with the smaller ones being wrapped up in a story patch or used for future expansions. There’s no need to drag DF out longer.

  2. #17342
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    I don’t know why people particularly want a 10.3. It’s not necessary. The main storyline of the expansion is the Primal Incarnates, of which seems to be due resolution in 10.2. The Tyr storyline is an important one but it’s not the primary narrative. It could easily be resolved in a 10.2.5 story patch or be used as a plot hook for a future expansion.

    Just give us fated raids, a new or revamped dungeon and some story and world content in 10.2.5 with the next expansion looming and everyone’s happy. The main story of DF is resolved, with the smaller ones being wrapped up in a story patch or used for future expansions. There’s no need to drag DF out longer.
    Not really. The main plotline is the Dragons and their relationship to the Titans. The Incarnates are just an offshoot of how the Titan Keepers interact with Dragons, showing us a version of the aspects that don't trust the Titan Keepers, and for reasons that have still not been fully explained.

    Once Tyr returns it's just a question of time until the other shoe drops and he decides to do something or other in order to further how own agenda at the cost of what the Dragons actually want. At that point the Incarnate storyline will actually have some payoff, as the aspects will have to ally with Vyranoth in opposing him.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  3. #17343
    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    thats my point.

    DF "big bad bosses" are pretty much done. Unless we dig up Murazond or Tyr in 10.2.5/7....
    But overall- next raid IS last raid tier of the expansion.

    And I'm somehow glad for it.

    Storytelling in DF was on SL level if you ask me. Waaaaaaaay too disneyfied.
    I loved the villains though

    Fyrakk especially

  4. #17344
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Not really. The main plotline is the Dragons and their relationship to the Titans. The Incarnates are just an offshoot of how the Titan Keepers interact with Dragons, showing us a version of the aspects that don't trust the Titan Keepers, and for reasons that have still not been fully explained.

    Once Tyr returns it's just a question of time until the other shoe drops and he decides to do something or other in order to further how own agenda at the cost of what the Dragons actually want. At that point the Incarnate storyline will actually have some payoff, as the aspects will have to ally with Vyranoth in opposing him.
    It isn’t though. The Titans and their relationship with the dragons is definitely a plot point but it isn’t driving the narrative - the Incarnates are. They’re the reason why we go to the Dragon Isles, and they’re the catalyst for everything going on there. Right from the levelling experience to the first raid with Raz freeing her siblings up to 10.1 with Fyrakk going into the caverns to get Shadowflame and free the Djaradin, to 10.1.5 with Iridikron working with the infinites and now 10.2 with Fyrakk assaulting the dream and Vyranoth finally joining us.

    It has been the driving force of the Dragonflight story. The Tyr story whilst an important one has been a lot more understated and in the background instead of the more pressing theme. It’s Dragonflight’s B-plot.

    Saying the Tyr storyline is the main storyline of Dragonflight is like saying the Illidan & X’era storyline was the main Legion storyline. Yes it was an important storyline that spanned the expansion, but again it was in the background and didn’t take precedent. The main storyline there was the Legion invasion, backed up by the Illidan’s destiny story.

    There’s literally no way imaginable that the Tyr storyline is the main story of Dragonflight over the Primal Incarnates. It’s a story that takes place over a few quests at max level that’s spanned a couple of patches with some hidden lore in one dungeon.

  5. #17345
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    It isn’t though. The Titans and their relationship with the dragons is definitely a plot point but it isn’t driving the narrative - the Incarnates are. They’re the reason why we go to the Dragon Isles, and they’re the catalyst for everything going on there. Right from the levelling experience to the first raid with Raz freeing her siblings up to 10.1 with Fyrakk going into the caverns to get Shadowflame and free the Djaradin, to 10.1.5 with Iridikron working with the infinites and now 10.2 with Fyrakk assaulting the dream and Vyranoth finally joining us.

    It has been the driving force of the Dragonflight story. The Tyr story whilst an important one has been a lot more understated and in the background instead of the more pressing theme. It’s Dragonflight’s B-plot.

    Saying the Tyr storyline is the main storyline of Dragonflight is like saying the Illidan & X’era storyline was the main Legion storyline. Yes it was an important storyline that spanned the expansion, but again it was in the background and didn’t take precedent. The main storyline there was the Legion invasion, backed up by the Illidan’s destiny story.

    There’s literally no way imaginable that the Tyr storyline is the main story of Dragonflight over the Primal Incarnates. It’s a story that takes place over a few quests at max level that’s spanned a couple of patches with some hidden lore in one dungeon.
    I think you are confusing main plot with vehicle for main plot.
    The Primal Incarnates are the vehicle through which we are told about the relationship between the Dragons and the Titan Keepers.

    To pull an example from previous expansions. In MoP the main plot was faction war. It's the reason we go there, it's what drives the plot forward, and we get introduced to a similar faction war to Horde v Alliance with Pandaren v Mantid.
    The vehicle through which this is shown is the Sha. All the faction conflict is what is propagating the Sha. It's the physical force that causes the conflict between the Horde and Alliance to destroy he Jade Forest statue. And it's the driving force behind why the Mantid are attacking early.

    The Incarnates in Dragonflight are definitely the main antagonists so far, but the main narrative is still about Dragons and Titan keepers. That is after all the entire reason the Incarnates are fighting us to begin with.
    Titan technology is what kept the Incarnates trapped. Titan keepers experiments on Dragon eggs is what radicalized Vyranoth. Iridikron is specifically out to get the Titans. And the Titans and Titan keepers are what made Dragons possible to begin with, making Galakrond go insane, and making the Proto-dragons ascend to elemental Incarnates, as well as modern Dragons and aspects.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  6. #17346
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    With how some people view AI when it comes to anything that has to do with art, I don't blame them. Some people see the word AI nowdays and start seething and frothing at he mouth.
    Ideally, AI could be used to massively facilitate the process of updating assets at minimal cost while keeping the same number of people doing the same amount of work overall, at least on the texture front (as I'm unsure how far AI-generated 3d modeling has gone). However, we know full well that instead of using it to cheaply improve a full product, a company like Blizzard is more likely to use it to cut their art team's staffing and salaries significantly while still producing the same amount of work (albeit shittier).
    "Wounds are for the desperate, blows are for the strong;
    balm and oil for weary hearts all cut and bruised with wrong.
    I forgive thy treason, I redeem thy fall;
    for iron—cold iron—must be master of men all!"


    You'll believe it when you see it for yourself.

  7. #17347
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I think you are confusing main plot with vehicle for main plot.
    The Primal Incarnates are the vehicle through which we are told about the relationship between the Dragons and the Titan Keepers.

    To pull an example from previous expansions. In MoP the main plot was faction war. It's the reason we go there, it's what drives the plot forward, and we get introduced to a similar faction war to Horde v Alliance with Pandaren v Mantid.
    The vehicle through which this is shown is the Sha. All the faction conflict is what is propagating the Sha. It's the physical force that causes the conflict between the Horde and Alliance to destroy he Jade Forest statue. And it's the driving force behind why the Mantid are attacking early.

    The Incarnates in Dragonflight are definitely the main antagonists so far, but the main narrative is still about Dragons and Titan keepers. That is after all the entire reason the Incarnates are fighting us to begin with.
    Titan technology is what kept the Incarnates trapped. Titan keepers experiments on Dragon eggs is what radicalized Vyranoth. Iridikron is specifically out to get the Titans. And the Titans and Titan keepers are what made Dragons possible to begin with, making Galakrond go insane, and making the Proto-dragons ascend to elemental Incarnates, as well as modern Dragons and aspects.
    Not confusing anything. The main storyline of Dragonflight is literally the Primal Incarnates. We don’t go to the Dragon Isles to explore the Titans relationship with the dragons. It isn’t even an aspect of the levelling. It literally takes place in a few story chapters at max level, and with some hidden lore in a dungeon - that’s literally it.

    No one has ever thought that MoP was a Sha expansion. Everyone knows it was a faction war expansion.

    But using your own example against you here. The reason we go to Pandaria is because of the faction war, same as the DI with the Incarnates. The story that drives us throughout the levelling experience is the faction war conflict… just like the Primalists in Dragonflight. Yes the Sha and the Mantid and the Yaungol are threats on Pandaria - much like the Djaradin, Gnolls and Sundered Flame are on the Dragon Isles. What drives the MoP storyline is the faction war. Just like what drives the Dragonflight story is the Primal Incarnates.

    I mean, if we really want to use MoP as the comparison point here, then the Tyr storyline is more comparable to the Wrathion legendary quest chain from MoP. Another important b plot storyline that spans the expansion, takes place at max level and at times interweaves with the main storyline of the expansion. Do you think Wrathion preparing for the Legion’s return was the main storyline of Pandaria? Probably not, because it wasn’t.

    If you think that the main story of Dragonflight is Tyr & the Titans relationship with the dragons over the Primal Incarnates then I don’t know what else to tell you other than that you’re wrong.

  8. #17348
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    That chart is useless without definition.
    Let's not forget that chart was explicitly made by somebody who is neither objective nor has access to the full picture, especially regarding things not pertaining to the Shadowlands.

  9. #17349
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    If you think that the main story of Dragonflight is Tyr & the Titans relationship with the dragons over the Primal Incarnates then I don’t know what else to tell you other than that you’re wrong.
    The Primal Incarnates are all about going against the Titans and Titan Keepers though. It's Iridikrons entire motivation. It's the backstory of Vyranoth and presumably Fyrakk. Razsageth we don't know, but she was also all about the Dragons being wrong for submitting to the Titans.

    The entire conflict between the Aspects and Incarnates is centered around their differing ideas about the Titan influence on Azeroth. The Incarnates don't like it, and the Aspects do.
    The central character in the whole mess is Tyr, who was the one primarily focused on experimenting on the Proto-dragons. We know he ensured the Aspects came to be, and we know he did experiments on infusing magic into Proto-dragons, creating the Incarnates in some way.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  10. #17350
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The Primal Incarnates are all about going against the Titans and Titan Keepers though. It's Iridikrons entire motivation. It's the backstory of Vyranoth and presumably Fyrakk. Razsageth we don't know, but she was also all about the Dragons being wrong for submitting to the Titans.

    The entire conflict between the Aspects and Incarnates is centered around their differing ideas about the Titan influence on Azeroth. The Incarnates don't like it, and the Aspects do.
    The central character in the whole mess is Tyr, who was the one primarily focused on experimenting on the Proto-dragons. We know he ensured the Aspects came to be, and we know he did experiments on infusing magic into Proto-dragons, creating the Incarnates in some way.
    That’s pretty much like saying that Sargeras feared the Void Lords because they can create Dark Titans, and for that reason Sargeras went mad and started the Legion. So Sargeras relationship with the Void Lords is the main storyline of Legion.

    Yes, the relationship between Tyr, the Aspects and the Primalists is important. Yes, it plays a significant role in the DF story. Yes, Tyr is the central figure to that particular story. It doesn’t change that the literal main storyline of Dragonflight is the story of the Primal Incarnates. Once that storyline with what they’re trying to achieve is wrapped up, then the main storyline of Dragonflight is wrapped up.

    Just like Legion wrapped up with the defeat of the Legion despite their still being Void Lords out there who were ultimately responsible for Sargeras creating the Legion.

    Just like MoP was wrapped up with the defeat of Garrosh despite faction tensions remaining high as evidenced with Varian stating after the raid that the next step is deposing Sylvanas.

    Just like how Shadowlands was wrapped up with the defeat of the Jailer despite the 7th force remaining at large, the reason why Zovaal wanted to remake the cosmos.
    Last edited by Santandame; 2023-09-09 at 12:47 PM.

  11. #17351
    Quote Originally Posted by KayRule View Post
    If 10.2 was the last patch PERIOD, it would still have more content added from launch to end than Legion.
    That copium.
    Did you even play Legion?

  12. #17352
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    That’s pretty much like saying that Sargeras feared the Void Lords because they can create Dark Titans, and for that reason Sargeras went mad and started the Legion. So Sargeras relationship with the Void Lords is the main storyline of Legion.

    Yes, the relationship between Tyr, the Aspects and the Primalists is important. Yes, it plays a significant role in the DF story. Yes, Tyr is the central figure to that particular story. It doesn’t change that the literal main storyline of Dragonflight is the story of the Primal Incarnates. Once that storyline with what they’re trying to achieve is wrapped up, then the main storyline of Dragonflight is wrapped up.

    Just like Legion wrapped up with the defeat of the Legion despite their still being Void Lords out there who were ultimately responsible for Sargeras creating the Legion.

    Just like MoP was wrapped up with the defeat of Garrosh despite faction tensions remaining high as evidenced with Varian stating after the raid that the next step is deposing Sylvanas.

    Just like how Shadowlands was wrapped up with the defeat of the Jailer despite the 7th force remaining at large, the reason why Zovaal wanted to remake the cosmos.
    So your argument is that the plotlines that have been brought up. The motivations of the villains that they have mentioned specifically several times. The actual questlines dealing with the Titans influence. Is in fact all the same as the Sargeras' motivation that he never stated in Legion, was never brought up, and was not pertinent to any real character in Legion.

    I don't know how you could make the Titan plot more obvious. Every single patch has had us attempting to revive Tyr, while simultaneously learning about the shady stuff he did. Every patch has had a villain talking about how much they want to not have the Dragons linked to the Titans.

    I get your argument, but I think it's a gross understatement of how integral the Titans are to Dragonflight.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  13. #17353
    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    There are so many unused things being datamined on this expansion that the clue for the next expansion is probably hidden in plain sight.

    It'll be fun when Blizzcon comes out, and the announcement shows something that could've been predicted based on 10.0 unused stuff.
    Oh, definitely. There's much more stuff than has been reported on as well so far, even going back as far as 10.0.0. It'll be a lot of fun to see how many of those predicted dots actually end up connecting, and more interestingly, if not, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    It seems like they are also slowly changing old armour to give it a HD look via AI (because no human would want to go over the tens of thousands of old gear just to give it an high rezz upscale):

    https://twitter.com/kraulspine/statu...42966332297293

    Great news if so, and I really hope they also do this with classic/tbc era mounts next expansion - new stuff is cool, but sometimes I just want to use old mounts/sets and would love them to be on par with modern stuff!
    AI uprezzing (which is different from AI art generated from text, before people go apeshit) might be used there, but also keep in mind vanilla shipped with very small/compressed versions of what were originally much more detailed PSDs which they should largely still have available in their versioning system so a lot of these are probably just re-exports of their original art as well. They are no longer constrained to texture sizes as much as they were back then.
    Last edited by Marlamin; 2023-09-09 at 01:19 PM.

  14. #17354
    Looks like the Gnoll Decay boss is NOT in this patch, interestingly enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    Oh, definitely. There's much more stuff than has been reported on as well so far, even going back as far as 10.0.0. It'll be a lot of fun to see how many of those predicted dots actually end up connecting, and more interestingly, if not, why?
    If next expansion isn't a revamp, based on Ion's comments the only reason it would be that is because they need more time.

  15. #17355
    Damn, i really hope this Lo'Gosh set won't take whole year to release.

    As for revamp i really hope it will become true, but dunno i really have big doubts that it won't happen in the end.

    If it will happen, it could be the longest expansion they've been cooking it behind the scenes.

  16. #17356
    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    That copium.
    Did you even play Legion?
    How is it not true? Did you play 7.2?
    The only thing Legion had a lot of was different class campaigns, and most of those have been grossly overstated in how in-depth they were.

    DF will have two full new zones and a revamped one that didnt do anything at launch. You would have to somehow argue that Argus' three small zones are somehow actually outstripping Dragonflight and it's two full large zones to have the same amount of area added.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  17. #17357
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Looks like the Gnoll Decay boss is NOT in this patch, interestingly enough.



    If next expansion isn't a revamp, based on Ion's comments the only reason it would be that is because they need more time.
    The Gnoll Decay boss surviving screams revamp hook to me. It’s a way of making the Gnoll’s more of a significant threat as opposed to them just being cannibalistic bandits living in the woods. Wratheye can teach decay magic to the wider Gnoll populace and begin to Marshall them under one clan.

  18. #17358
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    How is it not true? Did you play 7.2?
    The only thing Legion had a lot of was different class campaigns, and most of those have been grossly overstated in how in-depth they were.

    DF will have two full new zones and a revamped one that didnt do anything at launch. You would have to somehow argue that Argus' three small zones are somehow actually outstripping Dragonflight and it's two full large zones to have the same amount of area added.
    I mean saying that Legion had only different class campaigns is a really weird statement.

    Legion brought world quests system, legendary drops, m+, weapon artifacts, every class campaigns, artifact farmable and hidden appearances and class mounts, mage tower which was a huge feature up until the end(probably the one of the biggest feature wow ever had), last patch had allied races already added amongts other things, edit: lvling changes/scaling..

    You can just say you didn't like legion or something, but bringing a big lie about it having only different class campaigns - shame on you.
    Last edited by ImTheMizAwesome; 2023-09-09 at 01:31 PM.

  19. #17359
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    Oh, definitely. There's much more stuff than has been reported on as well so far, even going back as far as 10.0.0. It'll be a lot of fun to see how many of those predicted dots actually end up connecting, and more interestingly, if not, why?
    I am curious whether the predictions will follow the same pattern they tend to.
    An obvious candidate will be available long before. In this case Avaloren/Backside of Azeroth. Though world revamp is actually a highly likely one for once, and not just the memes.
    We will get lots of prediction based on the obvious candidate, but as the predictions roll by we will eventually switch tracks to something that is only vaguely set up in the final patch. Dragon Isles leading up to SL for instance.
    Eventually the unlikely prediction will be the only one getting all the in-depth leaks.
    Blizzcon rolls around and lo and behold, it was the obvious choice everyone guessed months ago.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  20. #17360
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    (because no human would want to go over the tens of thousands of old gear just to give it an high rezz upscale):
    its called job. they are paid money to do it. 'want' have nothing with it

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