1. #17541
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Now that I think about it, Tyrhold bringing the Pantheon back would make more sense.
    It was hinted that Elisande was involved in the next chapter of Tyr quests. I guess that means going back into the past?
    What better to bring the Titans back, than the one and only Eye of Aman'thul?
    I will not reply to posts that are non-constructive or contain flaming and/or trolling.

  2. #17542
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    It was hinted that Elisande was involved in the next chapter of Tyr quests. I guess that means going back into the past?
    What better to bring the Titans back, than the one and only Eye of Aman'thul?
    Do they need to be back though, I mean why?

    They're currently keeping sarg in lockdown.

    It would take something that would threaten the cosmic balance to have them come back. Dunno if the return of Tyr is enough.

  3. #17543
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    It was hinted that Elisande was involved in the next chapter of Tyr quests. I guess that means going back into the past?
    What better to bring the Titans back, than the one and only Eye of Aman'thul?
    I think what it means is that Nighthold is a cool asset and they wanted to reuse that.

  4. #17544
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    Because Blizzard treats them as filler to prop up the Incarnates who are the real villains aka the real meat of the expansion. The primalists take a backseat to have more focus on the Incarnates.
    Why do you talk about them as if they were two seperate groups? The Incarnates are part of the Primalists. If the Incarnates are the real meat, then that makes the Primalists the real meat.

  5. #17545
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Why do you talk about them as if they were two seperate groups? The Incarnates are part of the Primalists. If the Incarnates are the real meat, then that makes the Primalists the real meat.
    Does that mean the Old gods/deathwing are also part of Twilight's Hammer? Because I see primalist being in a similar position.
    I will not reply to posts that are non-constructive or contain flaming and/or trolling.

  6. #17546
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Does that mean the Old gods/deathwing are also part of Twilight's Hammer? Because I see primalist being in a similar position.
    They’re Old God forces so yeah, anything Twilight Hammer related is going to be Old God related. The exact same as the Primalists with the Incarnates.

    I honestly cannot believe people in this thread are trying to differentiate between the Incarnates and the Primalists. Is the Lich King not a scourge villain?

  7. #17547
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    Are you joking? Anyone saying that the Primalists are filler in this expansion are out of their mind. It’s much like saying the Scourge, Iron Horde, Legion etc are filler in theirs. It doesn’t matter if they aren’t fleshed out as enemies in terms of named characters. They are literally the main antagonistic force led by the expansions primary antagonists.
    When I say they're filler, I'm talking about how fleshed out they are as a force, how much they integrate into the overall setting and with the other factions, etc.

    The Scourge and Legion have affected too many peoples and entrenched themselves so deep into the setting that you could never just vanish them into the ether. It's not just them having memorable characters and leaders that can both showcase the goals and philosophy of their faction while also sticking out as their own individuals, it's that those undead and demons, as forces, are intrinsically tied to both the ancient backstories and present stories of many races. They're a part of Warcraft's identity.

    The Primalists don't have these ties. They don't have a grounding origin story that explains where they came from, nor are they fleshed out and well established in the expansion itself. The issue with the Incarnates being their leaders is that the Incarnates don't seem to care about them at all and can move on without them. Arthas probably didn't care about the Scourge as a whole, but can you imagine Arthas without the Scourge behind him? It just doesn't work.

    Two of the four Incarnates are almost certainly dead by the end of 10.2. Vyranoth has switched sides and her quests involve bringing outcast dragonflights into the fold, nothing to do with Primalists. Iridikron's left the whole conflict altogether, and while we don't know where that's going yet, it seems more Void-focused than anything else. You could compare them to the Twilight's Hammer, but that group is explicitly insane fodder, and not very interesting either.

    Maybe the Primalists will stick around and get fleshed out more after 10.2, but the direction of their writing seems to be just treating them as fodder that the good Incarnate doesn't acknowledge and the evil Incarnate up and ditched. It's just as likely they totally vanish in 11.0, as quickly as they showed up. The Iron Horde is a decent analogue because they also just showed up and then left because barely anything of note or consequence happened in WoD aside from getting Gul'dan to start the next expansion.

  8. #17548
    I feel like the cults of the Primalists/Twilight's Hammer are distinctly separate from the things they "worship" ie the Old Gods/Primalists. Whereas the Scourge and Lich King or the Dragon Aspects and their flights are more intrinsically linked together. The cults are disgruntled wannabes and are allies to their respective entities but aren't really an "in group" with the entities themselves. Once they help/serve their purpose they are just cast aside.
    Last edited by ChairmanKaga; 2023-09-15 at 06:24 PM.

  9. #17549
    Quote Originally Posted by ChairmanKaga View Post
    I feel like the cults of the Primalists/Twilight's Hammer are distinctly separate from the things they "worship" ie the Old Gods/Primalists. Whereas the Scourge and Lich King or the Dragon Aspects and their flights are more intrinsically linked together. The cults are disgruntled wannabes and are allies to their respective entities but aren't really an "in group" with the entities themselves. Once they help/serve their purpose they are just cast aside.
    They’re literally their main fighting force. I don’t know how people are getting this so twisted. They serve the Incarnates, they do their fighting, they do their bidding, they work to achieve the Incarnates goals, they have their loyalty.

    Just like the following:

    - The Twilights Hammer with the Old Gods
    - The Legion with Sargeras
    - The Scourge with the Lich King

    And countless other enemies with their followers and armies. This entire argument is madness.

  10. #17550
    Quote Originally Posted by ChairmanKaga View Post
    Assuming 10.2 is the final raid tier is anyone else disappointed the Tyrhold beacon thing from the opening cinematic didn't come into more prominence somehow? I thought it would turn into some kind of macguffin over the course of the expansion.
    I mean the beacon showed the dragons the way back right? Wasn't that essentially the purpose?
    Turn the Dragon Isles back "on"/"awake" so they can come home?
    Meaning it kinda got resolved in the cinematic far as I was concerned.

  11. #17551
    7 weeks from right now, we'll know what the expansion is about. I can't wait!

    7 weeks ago was July 28th, so you get a rough idea of how long the wait'll be.

  12. #17552
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    7 weeks from right now, we'll know what the expansion is about. I can't wait!

    7 weeks ago was July 28th, so you get a rough idea of how long the wait'll be.
    I'm really hoping for a world revamp. I can easily see what features they would bring :

    >Complete interfaction gameplay. You can quest and queue with your friends
    >Advanced Riding, which would be dragonriding for ground mount. With solo Q BGs it could be a thing. Also, I would love to see new races in the Thousand Needles where you pimp your bike / rocket car.
    >BGs revamped with categories of BG like Capture the flag, king of the hill or simply deathmatch. Would also love to see some old school content become brawl like the WoD Highmaul arena.
    >New Brawler's Guild but in all arena of Azeroth (Gurubashi like in the first WoW trailer)
    >Archeology revamped to work like Secret of Azeroth, with multiple tools for multiple tasks.
    >Cosmetic spells (which will end up in the store, we all know it)
    >Every vanilla class for every race
    >Maybe DH for void elves / nightbornes ?
    >Keyforging for MM+ where you can add new affixes for better rewards (and also replay some of the fun affixes like BFA S2)

  13. #17553
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    They’re Old God forces so yeah, anything Twilight Hammer related is going to be Old God related. The exact same as the Primalists with the Incarnates.

    I honestly cannot believe people in this thread are trying to differentiate between the Incarnates and the Primalists. Is the Lich King not a scourge villain?
    Then how did the Primalists get their elemental power BEFORE they freed Razsageth and way before they freed the other Incarnates?

    The Incarnates never gave the Primalists their power, there was only one instance where a Primalist received the power of one of the Incarnates (that wind boss in Vault of the Incarnates). She used to be a regular wind primalist night elf until she asked Raszageth for some of her power, and Raszageth only gave that one wind primalist a small amount but to a mortal, it was so much power that her body can barely be able to handle it.

    Dathea Stormlash says: They killed my brother! My vengeance requires your power!
    Raszageth yells: Quiet, whimpering fool! If I didn't have need of you, you'd already be dead.
    Raszageth yells: I will grant you a modicum of my strength. It should suffice to deal with these meddlers.
    Dathea Stormlash says: It's... it's too much!
    Raszageth yells: Indeed. This gift will destroy you. Kill them before it does.
    Dathea, Ascended says: I will not fail.
    So wherever they're getting their power from isn't from the Incarnates but something else. Whatever it is, they probably won't show or explain it in DF because the primalists aren't the prime focus, the Incarnates are.

  14. #17554
    Quote Originally Posted by Holdodlig View Post
    I'm really hoping for a world revamp. I can easily see what features they would bring :

    >Complete interfaction gameplay. You can quest and queue with your friends
    >Advanced Riding, which would be dragonriding for ground mount. With solo Q BGs it could be a thing. Also, I would love to see new races in the Thousand Needles where you pimp your bike / rocket car.
    >BGs revamped with categories of BG like Capture the flag, king of the hill or simply deathmatch. Would also love to see some old school content become brawl like the WoD Highmaul arena.
    >New Brawler's Guild but in all arena of Azeroth (Gurubashi like in the first WoW trailer)
    >Archeology revamped to work like Secret of Azeroth, with multiple tools for multiple tasks.
    >Cosmetic spells (which will end up in the store, we all know it)
    >Every vanilla class for every race
    >Maybe DH for void elves / nightbornes ?
    >Keyforging for MM+ where you can add new affixes for better rewards (and also replay some of the fun affixes like BFA S2)
    I'd be really happy for three simple things:

    1. A really immersive revamped Azeroth, with lots of little cosy locations where the music, weather, landscape, ambience and everything else just comes together perfectly.

    2. Gameplay systems I feel personally engaged with again, like the Artifacts, Order Halls, etc. of the past. A personal progression system that offers me challenges, rewards, a great story, and something meaningful to do throughout the expansion.

    3. The overarching story improves, and stops moving at a snail's pace. It uses regular lore characters again, gives us an exciting pre-rendered CGI cinematic now and then, and makes big leaps forward with each patch.

  15. #17555
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    Then how did the Primalists get their elemental power BEFORE they freed Razsageth and way before they freed the other Incarnates?

    The Incarnates never gave the Primalists their power, there was only one instance where a Primalist received the power of one of the Incarnates (that wind boss in Vault of the Incarnates). She used to be a regular wind primalist night elf until she asked Raszageth for some of her power, and Raszageth only gave that one wind primalist a small amount but to a mortal, it was so much power that her body can barely be able to handle it.
    The elements. Same place the Incarnates get their power from.

  16. #17556
    Quote Originally Posted by Mecheon View Post
    Because the simple psychology that people value new stuff for spending their $60 dollaridoos on a new expansion, the fact that all of the old world zones are accessible in game right now makes them less valued as a result. Particularly when one competitor is advertising "Let's go to Mexico!" and another just released "Come to the popular World of Books and Tentacles (as see in Skyrim)". The competitors are advertising New, you're paying the type of money that could get you several copies of indie games full of New content, and the last time WoW tried this, the New content, the main draw for endgame, was absolutely at the mercy of the rest of the game being updated.

    Plus, as much as there is a revamp crew, there is an anti-revamp crew (who, honestly, probably have a fair few players jaded by Cata). This thread tends to run revamp positive, but there's plenty of folks just, not excited by the prospect of a revamp.
    I am willing to have one less raid tier if it means the old world is updated to current lore.

  17. #17557
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    They’re literally their main fighting force. I don’t know how people are getting this so twisted. They serve the Incarnates, they do their fighting, they do their bidding, they work to achieve the Incarnates goals, they have their loyalty.

    Just like the following:

    - The Twilights Hammer with the Old Gods
    - The Legion with Sargeras
    - The Scourge with the Lich King

    And countless other enemies with their followers and armies. This entire argument is madness.
    That's the issue I'm highlighting with my above post: why? They have no backstory detailing what drove them to their beliefs and to group up, nor a simple excuse of being brainwashed or otherwise subjugated. The Incarnates both see them as mere fodder and are apparently willing to ditch them without a second thought for other factions and groups. The entire character and purpose of the Primalists is "they serve the Incarnates", and now that the remaining Incarnates are ditching them with no fanfare, will they be given a satisfying reason to keep existing, or just disappear?

    When this stuff feels so throwaway, it strains your suspension of disbelief, which has become a hallmark of the Danuser era of the story. When the new book that's titled as the Definitive Guide to Dragons opens with a disclaimer letting you know that everything within can be retconned at any time, it makes you wonder what the point of trying to take any of this seriously is if the writers can't even be bothered. It's the same feeling I had when listening to Sylvanas's speech in the heritage questline (Danuser said he wrote it on Twitter), and realizing that it only makes sense if she's speaking directly to the player who has read short stories that your character would have no access to. It's the feeling that you're trying to enjoy fiction, but the man refuses to get behind the curtain and hide himself.

    If this the second paragraph of this post feels slightly deranged, it's because partway through I realized that Secrets of Azeroth gave us a literal cosmic mystery box and I never needed a Metzen expansion more than now.
    Last edited by Murlocos; 2023-09-15 at 08:00 PM.

  18. #17558
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    The elements. Same place the Incarnates get their power from.
    And because they’re literally Shamans. Just as Huth has said - the elements. Why do the incarnates need to have given them power for them to serve them?

  19. #17559
    apparently cata classic has been datamined. do you think a world revamp for 11.0 is even more likely now?

    https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/sta...72612898971687

  20. #17560
    Quote Originally Posted by Zebir95 View Post
    apparently cata classic has been datamined. do you think a world revamp for 11.0 is even more likely now?

    https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/sta...72612898971687
    That is speculative datamining, not necessarily fact based so take it with a grain of salt for now.

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