1. #17921
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Honestly Warfronts suffered from lack of iterations. I am certain there is a compelling and challenging game mode that requires multiple optimizations behind that gameplay mode. Focus more on forcing defense and making good use of buffs and units and then require at least a couple of players optimized for doing resource runs and you have something very different from a standard raid. Then tune the bosses at the level of a heroic raid.
    And it could be used not just for faction vs faction PvE but could have been used for PvE enemy factions as well.
    Warfronts suffered from being designed for a full group of randoms. Design it for 5 people and tune it for a premade group and I think it would have worked much better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    I don't think they'll do Warfronts again... Not because of the whole faction war aspect, but because of the gameplay.

    It's boring as a PvE game and easy even if you get do the Heroic version of it (the only difference being that you need 20 other players that is even remotely interested in it)

    Warfronts would work better as a PvP Game-Mode with PvE elements. Would it go on for a while? Maybe, but it is a lot more engaging than what we got. Kinda like Isle of Conquest but instead of the players being the army itself trying to push down a lane.. you have to actually manage a squad of NPCs to help take down towers like Classic Warcraft fashion (or even League of Legends style).

    And as it stands, Blizz kinda puts PvP in the back-burner so I don't see something like that coming in a while.
    If it was tuned around 5 people in a premade group (probably with an LFR variant for casuals), I think it could have worked. More focus on NPC management, and heavier focus on letting the waves of allies do the hard lifting.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  2. #17922
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Warfronts suffered from being designed for a full group of randoms. Design it for 5 people and tune it for a premade group and I think it would have worked much better.
    They were supposed to be big battles. 5 man would not cut it.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2023-09-17 at 05:49 PM.
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  3. #17923
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Warfronts suffered from being designed for a full group of randoms. Design it for 5 people and tune it for a premade group and I think it would have worked much better.

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    If it was tuned around 5 people in a premade group (probably with an LFR variant for casuals), I think it could have worked. More focus on NPC management, and heavier focus on letting the waves of allies do the hard lifting.
    I'm with you. Strategy aspect would have been far better as a 3-5 man experience. You would have been able to customize a lot better where you put resources and what objectives you play with the feeling of being impactful in the game. Which was one of the biggest failure of warfronts

  4. #17924
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    They were supposed to be big battles. 5 man would not cut it.
    The big battles should be because of a large amount of NPC allies, not 30 people idly killing everything in a doomstack.
    Big battles sure, but also evoking the feel of an RTS or MOBA where you play the hero unit. And those games don't have a habit of 30 hero units. Armies are built slowly with a focus on small elite units to start with, and ending with large amounts of weaker units crushing everything.

    Instead of 30 players with 2 NPCs each. What is wrong with 5 players with 5, or even 10 NPCs each?
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  5. #17925
    Quote Originally Posted by Terremer View Post
    I don’t think it’s a problem, the people involved are going to look for any optimization so that they have something to do and if it doesn’t interest some, well, they’re going to do something else
    Yea, let's leave the assumptions to people with the data ok? Them being Blizzard. Not some randoms on a random forum

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The big battles should be because of a large amount of NPC allies, not 30 people idly killing everything in a doomstack.
    Big battles sure, but also evoking the feel of an RTS or MOBA where you play the hero unit. And those games don't have a habit of 30 hero units. Armies are built slowly with a focus on small elite units to start with, and ending with large amounts of weaker units crushing everything.

    Instead of 30 players with 2 NPCs each. What is wrong with 5 players with 5, or even 10 NPCs each?
    Exactly this. Warfronts pretty much died due to the way they were made.

    1.) The focus on LFR difficulty or even lower (you need to be able to complete it with a group where only 4 overgeared people do something(who barely join because see 3.))
    2.) Forcing the group to do random objectives, instead of letting players do their own thing and contribute (for example, there was a huge priority to certain areas over others.)
    3.) The rewards being lackluster.

  6. #17926
    Quote Originally Posted by lanerios View Post
    3.) The rewards being lackluster.
    I'd disagree with that. The mogs you'd get from Heroic Warfronts are amazing.

  7. #17927
    Does anybody else think Blizzard should do a small overhaul of the character race system in the near future?

    I just think it's a big bess with Allied Races, and the various customisation options added in Shadowlands and Dragonflight.

    It would be amazing if they streamlined it, so you had the following races:

    • Human
    • Dwarf
    • Kaldorei
    • Gnome
    • Eredar
    • Pandaren
    • Dracthyr
    • Orc
    • Tauren
    • Troll
    • Quel'dorei
    • Goblin
    • Vulpera

    Then as you click each race, you see different "sub races" (for lack of a better word). You can pick a backstory, nation or culture, which opens up for example "Stormwindians", Kul Tiran, Worgen and Forsaken. Obviously some will be faction-locked. Your racial abilities might be locked to your chosen "sub race" for the easy route, or they could have a sort of talent tree similar to the PvP talent tree, which lets you select from a few depending on the race you chose.

    As an added bonus, this could open up the ability to easily add more flavour in the future, and to open up some current restrictions. For example, they could give Wildhammer Dwarves some more attention, as well as San'layn elves. There might even be a new form of Lordaeronians that join the Alliance (backstory-wise) or a more neutral form of Quel'dorei (High Elves) that either side can pick.

  8. #17928
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Does anybody else think Blizzard should do a small overhaul of the character race system in the near future?

    I just think it's a big bess with Allied Races, and the various customisation options added in Shadowlands and Dragonflight.

    It would be amazing if they streamlined it, so you had the following races:

    • Human
    • Dwarf
    • Kaldorei
    • Gnome
    • Eredar
    • Pandaren
    • Dracthyr
    • Orc
    • Tauren
    • Troll
    • Quel'dorei
    • Goblin
    • Vulpera

    Then as you click each race, you see different "sub races" (for lack of a better word). You can pick a backstory, nation or culture, which opens up for example "Stormwindians", Kul Tiran, Worgen and Forsaken. Obviously some will be faction-locked. Your racial abilities might be locked to your chosen "sub race" for the easy route, or they could have a sort of talent tree similar to the PvP talent tree, which lets you select from a few depending on the race you chose.

    As an added bonus, this could open up the ability to easily add more flavour in the future, and to open up some current restrictions. For example, they could give Wildhammer Dwarves some more attention, as well as San'layn elves. There might even be a new form of Lordaeronians that join the Alliance (backstory-wise) or a more neutral form of Quel'dorei (High Elves) that either side can pick.
    I imagine racials are the difficult part to balance properly against eachother. Some races have several flavor racials, some have one. Some have several utility or DPS racials, some have just one big one. How do you for instance balance a big utility racial like Shadowmeld or EMFH?

    Maybe it could work, but I think racials in general would need to be more homogenized for it to work.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  9. #17929
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I imagine racials are the difficult part to balance properly against eachother. Some races have several flavor racials, some have one. Some have several utility or DPS racials, some have just one big one. How do you for instance balance a big utility racial like Shadowmeld or EMFH?

    Maybe it could work, but I think racials in general would need to be more homogenized for it to work.
    You're right. I do think racial abilities are due for an overhaul as well, tbh.

    I would love to see a simple tree like the one we have for Dragonriding. Pick between some cosmetic abilities, unlock a few stronger ones everyone get within that race, etc. But none of them should impact instanced or competitive gameplay to a large degree.

    As long as the new cosmetic options are super cool, I think a lot of players are willing to forgive losing out on a little bit of power. It'll also encourage picking what you prefer based on theme, instead of power.

    A Quel'dorei might unlock some type of "Silvermoon Arcanist" or "Thalassian Ranger" ability regardless if they're a Void Elf, a Blood Elf, a High Elf or a San'layn Elf. But each also has a selection of unique ones to mark that difference.

  10. #17930
    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Exchange Ztudent View Post
    Hi, I have a genuine question. Is there any map in recent history that has Tel'abim marked off on a map.



    Just wanted to see if anyone has the original source for such a map, thanks.
    It is in the chronicle map. It's not marked but an island appears in the location we know Tel'abim is at.

  11. #17931
    The Lightbringer Izalla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Again, that's cool and I hope they keep making more of the content you enjoy.

    For me, part of the allure of fishing as it currently works is precisely that is is fairly brain dead. It's not the activity itself that matters most, but that you're out in nature doing it, getting all immersed by the music and the landscape. Pretty much like fishing with a simple rod and bobber by a lake IRL, which is different from sportfishing.

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    Agreed, yeah.
    If you got 1-5 renown for every fish fished out of a pool, or something as simple as that, I would actually have maxed a renown by now. I've not got any of them higher than 13 I think...

    And I don't mean I've already done enough fishing for that. I mean I would have been fishing this whole time instead of just once in a while. I like fishing as it is right now. I just don't need the fish.
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    For the matriarchy.

  12. #17932
    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Exchange Ztudent View Post
    Just wondering what the source of this asset is.

    (Again, I was only curious because I've never seen Tel'abim marked off before and its a Modern WoW style map.)

    As far as I can tell from checking everything this is the first time I've seen Tel'abims Island blob named with a Continent font.
    Fan-made art.

  13. #17933
    Bloodsail Admiral Foreign Exchange Ztudent's Avatar
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    Yeah, I found it my bad. I am really sorry about that.

    I was like "Uh, Blizzard has never marked Tel'abim. So I was like just curious to fact check it."
    Last edited by Foreign Exchange Ztudent; 2023-09-17 at 07:36 PM.
    I no longer reply to quotations beyond if you're asking a genuine question or have a non-confrontational stance.


  14. #17934
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Does anybody else think Blizzard should do a small overhaul of the character race system in the near future?

    I just think it's a big bess with Allied Races, and the various customisation options added in Shadowlands and Dragonflight.

    It would be amazing if they streamlined it, so you had the following races:

    • Human
    • Dwarf
    • Kaldorei
    • Gnome
    • Eredar
    • Pandaren
    • Dracthyr
    • Orc
    • Tauren
    • Troll
    • Quel'dorei
    • Goblin
    • Vulpera

    Then as you click each race, you see different "sub races" (for lack of a better word). You can pick a backstory, nation or culture, which opens up for example "Stormwindians", Kul Tiran, Worgen and Forsaken. Obviously some will be faction-locked. Your racial abilities might be locked to your chosen "sub race" for the easy route, or they could have a sort of talent tree similar to the PvP talent tree, which lets you select from a few depending on the race you chose.

    As an added bonus, this could open up the ability to easily add more flavour in the future, and to open up some current restrictions. For example, they could give Wildhammer Dwarves some more attention, as well as San'layn elves. There might even be a new form of Lordaeronians that join the Alliance (backstory-wise) or a more neutral form of Quel'dorei (High Elves) that either side can pick.
    The problem is that at this point they have several races that have multiple/all of their distinct cultural groups mashed together into a single race option that i don't see how they could possibly seperate and categorize them without upsetting a truckload of people.

    Also, regardless of whether or not CFP is a thing, they'll likely never get rid of the factions prominence on the character creation screen.
    So they have to either add or mash options together just to have the UI balanced on both sides.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  15. #17935
    Quote Originally Posted by Izalla View Post
    If you got 1-5 renown for every fish fished out of a pool, or something as simple as that, I would actually have maxed a renown by now. I've not got any of them higher than 13 I think...

    And I don't mean I've already done enough fishing for that. I mean I would have been fishing this whole time instead of just once in a while. I like fishing as it is right now. I just don't need the fish.
    I hear ya.

    I'm in this odd place where all I really want to do is use /sit underneath some nice tree beside a clear stream, and hear the music and ambience sounds all around me. Zuldazar, Stormsong Valley, Azure Span, and a bunch of other places are perfect for this.

    But alas, actually doing it stresses me out a bit. Because I have a limited playtime (busy job and a toddler), I feel like I need to do the standard routine in order to get any Renown and "keep up" with cosmetic rewards, story, and just general expansion gameplay. So World Quests, some LFR, a few world events, etc. That's it for my playtime.

    But a revamped Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms with a sort of generic Renown that reset with every major patch or expansion, and just let me stack loads of fish, herbs, ore, etc. and turn in for rep and rewards? I'm in! Doesn't even matter if it's less efficient. It'd be my kind of gameplay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terremer View Post
    as in BG3 in brief, it's a system that i have seen much requested
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    The problem is that at this point they have several races that have multiple/all of their distinct cultural groups mashed together into a single race option that i don't see how they could possibly seperate and categorize them without upsetting a truckload of people.

    Also, regardless of whether or not CFP is a thing, they'll likely never get rid of the factions prominence on the character creation screen.
    So they have to either add or mash options together just to have the UI balanced on both sides.
    I agree it'd be difficult, but it would be popular with a lot of players.

    I think a reasonable solution is as follows:

    1. Enter the Character Creation screen.
    2. Pick a race you'd like to find out more about, from the ones listed in my other post. Let's use Dwarf as an example. Nice little info blurb that mentions unique racial abilities etc.
    3. Select an available "culture" or whatever they call it. This is just part of the customisation process.
    4. Customise your character's appearance. Some choice will appear "locked", and hovering the mouse cursor above them informs you why in case you want to change. Just as today with Human skin colours, there are these dependancies in choices further down.
    5. (Optional for bonus points, hehe) choose a backstory for some extra flair, or leave it empty for head canon.
    6. Log in to the game and open up your Talent Tree. There's a section for "Race", which lets you pick between a few. Some appear locked because of your earlier choice. But these become available if you make a switch at the Barbershop. Perhaps switching sub race comes with a price, or a cooldown, especially if it's between factions.
    7. Level up for more Talent points.

    If they want to keep the spirit of the faction choice alive in the character creation screen, then "core" races might be locked to the left or right under appropriate faction banners, while some might be in the middle if they're more neutral.
    Last edited by Worldshaper; 2023-09-17 at 08:16 PM.

  16. #17936
    Warchief Catastrophy349's Avatar
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    47 days until Blizzcon! Get HYPE! 11.0! 11.0!

  17. #17937
    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    47 days until Blizzcon! Get HYPE! 11.0! 11.0!
    For the next couple of weeks, we're in this weird bubble between the hype from 10.2's PTR diminishing, and BlizzCon's marketing picking up.

    Then we head into the Harvest Festival, Turbulent Timeways, Brewfest, Cataclysm Timewalking, Eastern Kingdoms Cup, and Hallow's End all within a couple of weeks. That's when it all starts to get exciting again, really.

  18. #17938
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    For the next couple of weeks, we're in this weird bubble between the hype from 10.2's PTR diminishing, and BlizzCon's marketing picking up.

    Then we head into the Harvest Festival, Turbulent Timeways, Brewfest, Cataclysm Timewalking, Eastern Kingdoms Cup, and Hallow's End all within a couple of weeks. That's when it all starts to get exciting again, really.
    I'd dismiss the Harvest Festival stuff... that in-game holiday doesn't give a lot other than food (and not even the kind that gives buffs) it was sort of a holiday Blizz just abandoned.

    Everything else is kinda exciting especially Hallow's End which got significant changes.

  19. #17939
    I found it odd that there are a lot of Hallows End revamped assets that didn't make it into 10.1.7, but are in the 10.2 files.

    Like what are the implications? They need a new phase? Assets that couldn't get done in time?
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2023-09-17 at 11:58 PM.

  20. #17940
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    As I am not illiterate and recognize extremely common root words of the english language, you are by no means required to clarify these meanings to me.

    While I caught the root word of Vindicaar, I actually didn't catch that Xenedar was drawing from "xeno" because that draws from a descriptive word as opposed to implying a course of action. Regardless, "fairly meaningless" was a miscommunication: my sentiment would've been better communicated with "unthemed" or "disjointed". My central sentiment is that maintaining a Biblical naming scheme would be better than affixing a prefix loosely connected to some general quality of the vessel.
    My point wasn't to belittle your knowledge, it was that ultimately Genesis and Exodus are also greek/latin roots. As the names of the first two books of the bible they work very well as thematic names for a pair of ships--they reference a pair of books but also have very strong English implications that are readily understood, but as Nymrohd pointed out, this isn't an infinite well. They stand out as two specific really convenient examples, but something like Leviticus, even putting aside its unsavory associations, does not work well, nor do the next ~20 book names, and Ecclesedar and Lamenedar don't exactly hit with the same poignancy as Genedar and Exodar.

    So they just went with latin/greek roots for ship purposes rather than attempting to force wonkier names or doubling down on the references and switching over to super explicit and direct name based things like Nazedar or Sinedar or something.

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