1. #18241
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Something like this;

    Would make someone feel claustrophobic?
    Really awful example, because yes, of course it would. The cavern ceiling is right there bearing down on the tops of the buildings.

  2. #18242
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That's definitely possible. It would explain the crapload of Azerite there and around Kezan. Not to mention the mineral Kaja'mite which makes Goblins smart.
    It always thought that Goblins were going to have a major role in BFA: the Kajamite was like an ancient type of Azerite.

  3. #18243
    I simply cannot see the difference between a fully Underground, fully Underwater, or an Emerald Dream expansion, they all feel very limited aesthetically.

    Yes, I agree that a couple of zones like that would be cool... but a whole expansion inside a cave? Hell no!

  4. #18244
    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    I simply cannot see the difference between a fully Underground, fully Underwater, or an Emerald Dream expansion, they all feel very limited aesthetically.
    I mean, the difference is pretty stark: the Emerald Dream is by it's very nature a very niche set of biomes. It's verdant, overgrown wilderness or verdant overgrown wilderness to which something has happened (e.g is on fire, is turned spooky by nightmare corruption, etc.) It has a strong specific theme and heavy deviation from that theme just makes locations feel out of place or like that purported theme doesn't actually hold true. If you have a sun-baked, skeleton-filled desert zone in the Emerald Dream, how is it the Emerald Dream?

    "Underground" dictates nothing about biomes or what is in a location, just the overarching (literally) physical structure, i.e. it has a ceiling above. Forests like Ashenvale can be undeground, vast sandy deserts can be underground, even "sun"-baked ones with simple things like a particular sort of blinding crystal on that part of the ceiling above, icy glaciers, mountains, sprawling cities. You can stick pretty much any zone in the game into a "cavern", including the truly out there ones like Netherstorm. If you stick Netherstorm into the Emerald Dream, there's just confusion, because why the hell is a verdant life-nature place some weird rocky, lifeless arcane place?

    "Underwater" sits somewhere inbetween the two. It's not as restrictive as the Emerald Dream, but not as totally unrestricted as the "Underground" environment, because for a cohesive thematic experience, biomes aside, there's going to be nautical/sea/water themes everywhere, in every enemy and city and item. You can still actually put pretty much any environment but some bits have to be thematically shifted--your sun-baked desert is basically sandy abyssal dunes, but you're going to struggle to get the dry/scorching aspect unless you remove the water element and basically make it an subarea that is just underground/underdome.

  5. #18245
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Really awful example, because yes, of course it would. The cavern ceiling is right there bearing down on the tops of the buildings.
    That massive waterfall in the background that's descending from even higher than the tops of a castle wouldn't alleviate that feeling a bit?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KainneAbsolute View Post
    It always thought that Goblins were going to have a major role in BFA: the Kajamite was like an ancient type of Azerite.
    Yeah, they definitely didn't go as far as they could have with the Azerite concept in regards to Goblin and Gnome tech advancements. They also wasted Mogul Razdunk.

  6. #18246
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That massive waterfall in the background that's descending from even higher than the tops of a castle wouldn't alleviate that feeling a bit?
    Phobias, by definition, aren't very rational. On the other hand, that also means a large cavern isn't going to trigger every claustrophobic. That setting might even hit an agoraphobic harder.

  7. #18247
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That massive waterfall in the background that's descending from even higher than the tops of a castle wouldn't alleviate that feeling a bit?
    Is being at the bottom of a well not claustrophobic because you have the sky directly above you?

    You can't have most of a zone pressing in on a player, and pressing in on it's own environment, like having the ceiling look like it could crush or cave in on buildings at any point, and not expect claustrophobia from people. Claustrophobia isn't a fear of not being able to see the sky, it's a fear of confined spaces. If you're going to avoid it, an environment has to feel wide and open, like the extremely vaulted dome of Deepholm. It needs to be designed with a rhythm and sense of space that pulls outwards, not pushes inwards.




    You're still not going to completely eliminate the feeling of claustrophobia, just like you're never going to escape the fear of heights on a continent/archipelago that is "flying". But you can mitigate it.
    Last edited by Hitei; 2023-09-20 at 02:03 AM.

  8. #18248
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Towelie just posted this.

  9. #18249
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post


    Towelie just posted this.
    lol its true

    https://twitter.com/towelthetank/sta...02429221900570

    Is he even allowed to do this, unless he's trolling?
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2023-09-20 at 02:42 AM.

  10. #18250
    Two (young?) people - looks more like the untitled survival game than Warcraft.

  11. #18251
    Where's all this Undermine talk coming from?

  12. #18252
    Quote Originally Posted by Seasz View Post
    Where's all this Undermine talk coming from?
    Toweliee

    Hopefully, it's just a set of zones.

  13. #18253
    Quote Originally Posted by Seasz View Post
    Where's all this Undermine talk coming from?
    Towellie teasing underground zones today

    Don't forget that Crystal/"Magni" Dwarves were teased on here by Scaleface's friend, before we'd ever heard of Khaz Algar

  14. #18254
    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    You misunderstand. It doesn't resemble the Maw, being trapped underground for 2 years for someone that hates being in tight enclosed spaces would feel every bit as torturous as going through the Maw for 2 years was.
    That makes no sense. The maw was only closed in theory and we were able to get out since day 1.
    The torturous part was the design where you had limited time there at the start.
    Sorry, but i cannot agree that we can't have a different setting to pander to a few people that feel irrationally claustrofobic in a game.
    Maybe we can't go inside buildings anymore. People might feel claustrophobic. That is ridiculous.
    Also,i very much doubt all zones would be underground in such an expansion.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2023-09-20 at 03:22 AM.

  15. #18255
    He also posted this right before.



    https://twitter.com/towelthetank/sta...03278878789953

    If not Undermine, maybe a "Delves" feature for WoW? Randomly generated caves?
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2023-09-20 at 03:26 AM.

  16. #18256
    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    Toweliee

    Hopefully, it's just a set of zones.
    Out of curiosity, how reliable has he actually been in the past? I know he has some insider knowledge, but what is the actual extent of it?
    "Wounds are for the desperate, blows are for the strong;
    balm and oil for weary hearts all cut and bruised with wrong.
    I forgive thy treason, I redeem thy fall;
    for iron—cold iron—must be master of men all!"


    You'll believe it when you see it for yourself.

  17. #18257
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Out of curiosity, how reliable has he actually been in the past? I know he has some insider knowledge, but what is the actual extent of it?
    Not very. All the times I remember "leaks" from him turned out to be either exaggerations or completely manufactured. He doesnt even get dates for Patch announcements etc. right.

    Maybe occasionally he hears some stuff idk but most of it seems like educated guesses at best. Also ofc he never hears anything negative and its all just amazing and the greatest game ever etc.
    Last edited by justwatching; 2023-09-20 at 04:27 AM.

  18. #18258
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Out of curiosity, how reliable has he actually been in the past? I know he has some insider knowledge, but what is the actual extent of it?
    He's only ever been sometimes reliable about patch/PTR/alpha start dates. He doesn't have a 100% track record on that, and the only other thing he ever does is basically just imply he knows things or has seen things without talking about what the things are. Shit like "there's gonna be a lot of changes" or "I think people will like it".

    I genuinely don't know why people treat him as a source for upcoming information. By the time he actually hints at a date (often a couple weeks prior), the entire community has it already dialed in to likely be +-1 week of that date, and because he is high profile and sometimes works with Blizzard, he is even more stringently not allowed to talk about whatever insider knowledge he might sometimes get.

    This underground/water thing would be the first time he's ever provided information on the order of spoiling the theme/location of upcoming content.

  19. #18259
    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    You misunderstand. It doesn't resemble the Maw, being trapped underground for 2 years for someone that hates being in tight enclosed spaces would feel every bit as torturous as going through the Maw for 2 years was.

    I think we'll be fine.. if people can handle going inside Mechagon, then they can probably handle something like the Undermine.

  20. #18260
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    He's only ever been sometimes reliable about patch/PTR/alpha start dates. He doesn't have a 100% track record on that, and the only other thing he ever does is basically just imply he knows things or has seen things without talking about what the things are. Shit like "there's gonna be a lot of changes" or "I think people will like it".

    I genuinely don't know why people treat him as a source for upcoming information. By the time he actually hints at a date (often a couple weeks prior), the entire community has it already dialed in to likely be +-1 week of that date, and because he is high profile and sometimes works with Blizzard, he is even more stringently not allowed to talk about whatever insider knowledge he might sometimes get.

    This underground/water thing would be the first time he's ever provided information on the order of spoiling the theme/location of upcoming content.
    Controlled leak? Probably not. But I could see Blizzard wanting to slightly adjust our course in our speculation.

    Mike already said no pirates, they put the lil fish mount in the Emerald Dream, and they made a post slightly making fun of our ideas.

    Not only that, but you could interpret Ion's interview as preemptive damage control. "We hear you, we know you want a world revamp, and it will come at some point", so people don't freak out at BlizzCon when they see... caves.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Isn't the 5th Old God in chronicles kinda depicted as a squidface with leaves around it?

    What if "her heart is a crater, and we have filled it" means that Old God in particular has sort of embedded itself around Azeroth's world-soul.

    Maybe Sargeras killed it when he pierced the world with his sword. And now "a dark heart left broken awaits the taking" means the Harbinger wants to claim its power, or resurrect it.

    If that thing is deep underground somewhere on Kalimdor, it could explain why those Earthen got affected by a sort of Primal "Curse of Flesh" at Khaz Algar. It's the Old God of... Life?

    Either way, I could definitely see a secret civilisation living down there. Maybe it's even Avaloren. Heretics. Technologically advanced. Heavy weaponry. Kajamite?
    Last edited by Worldshaper; 2023-09-20 at 04:58 AM.

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