1. #18261
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Controlled leak? Probably not. But I could see Blizzard wanting to slightly adjust our course in our speculation.

    Mike already said no pirates, they put the lil fish mount in the Emerald Dream, and they made a post slightly making fun of our ideas.

    Not only that, but you could interpret Ion's interview as preemptive damage control. "We hear you, we know you want a world revamp, and it will come at some point", so people don't freak out at BlizzCon when they see... caves.
    People have been sure a revamp was going to happen for like four expansions now. I don't see why they'd bother going out of their way to damage control this particular instance.

  2. #18262
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Controlled leak? Probably not. But I could see Blizzard wanting to slightly adjust our course in our speculation.

    Mike already said no pirates, they put the lil fish mount in the Emerald Dream, and they made a post slightly making fun of our ideas.

    Not only that, but you could interpret Ion's interview as preemptive damage control. "We hear you, we know you want a world revamp, and it will come at some point", so people don't freak out at BlizzCon when they see... caves.
    Yeah I'm not sure that damage control is going to help...thematically I cant possibly see this recapturing lapsed players. They need something along the lines of Legion or WoD(thematically) thats very core "Warcraft" and that everyone can kind of resonate with.

  3. #18263
    Although I was mostly expecting Khaz Algar for a 10.3 patch. I could see a potential expac with Khaz Algar and Undermine as respective faction zones.

    I really don't believe blizzard is incapable of making a journey to the centre of the earth expansion without it feeling claustrophobic. There is a great deal of possible biomes and environments to draw from. Nerubian kingdoms, goblin and dwarven styled capital cities, peaceful underground lakes and waterfalls, fungal biomes. My only issue is why the hell wouldn't Neltharion had investigated these zones prior, and if he did, that themeing in my eyes is done and dusted for now with forbidden reach and 10.1. Although an expansion racing Iridikron to the centre of the planet to Uldaz, possibly a titan made machine as close to the world soul as possible, would make sense.

    The whole phobia topic is honestly ridiculous. I've lost count of the amount of people requesting less spiders in the game because their phobias stop them from exploring areas with spider mobs over the years, alas we still get spiders.

    Let's remove flying. Imagine having a phobia of flying or heights and being forced to play dragonflight where the entire premise of the expansion was flying. That's just cruel. What a torturous prison those players are trapped in for 2 years right?

    As terrible as it is for people with life altering phobias to go about certain activities, you just wouldn't play the game. Subnautica is a great example. I have pretty bad thalassaphobia, subnautica has been the scariest gaming experience of my life. A friend gave me that game and I sat down with sorround sound headphones and scared the shit out of myself everytime I went down under the water, I had to stop multiple times mid playthrough to stand outside and calm myself down, it was exhilarating, it was terrifying, but it allowed me to experience and find moments of beauty in the things I am most terrified of. It was a gaming experience I will probably always remember.

    I adored Vashir, and Nazjatar was a shred of the zone it absolutely could of been, and deserved to be. Sometimes it's okay to have mildly uncomfortable situations in a gaming experience, sometimes it's beneficial. Hollow knight made me uncomfortable, that's another amazing gaming experience. Coincidentally completely underground.

    My friend has a extreme fear of bugs to the point bug noises and appearances in films and audio can make her physically throw up. I recommended hollow knight. Pushing that fear boundary is giving them an adrenaline fuelled experience and they're loving it, and if they decide they can't handle that? They're an adult and can grow up and stop playing. It's that simple.
    Last edited by Nibelheimy; 2023-09-20 at 05:22 AM.

  4. #18264
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I’m sure the usual people will roll their eyes, but it’s a very real possibility. There’s more than enough lore there to support an expansion, and Blizzard stated that it was something they wanted to do, but didn’t have the resources to pull it off at the time. There’s also Gallywix running around as a potential low-level antagonist and a potential need for another support class if Blizzard is going in the direction it appears to be going with support.
    I'd have to agree, despite being joke races, goblins and gnomes have something that most of the other races have lost to time.... PERSONALITY.

    If they can make a "joke race" like Pandarens and expand their lore to where they aren't much of a joke anymore, why not the same for Goblins? (Gnomes already have some pretty depressing lore... literally 70% of their population in Gnomergan was decimated due to troggs and radiation and the ones that survived turned into Leper Gnomes driven to madness. Granted I don't like mechagnomes as an Allied Race (you can just slap those mechanical limbs on a regular gnome and you wouldn't miss anything)...but the concept of a Mechagnome is actually cool and probably only time WoW ever actually dives into the concept of transhumanism.)

  5. #18265


    This is THE ONLY "cave" zones I accept.

    F*CK OFF WITH ZARALEK-TYPE OF STUFF!

    It was beyond disgusting to do stuff with disney-moles.

    Felt like some random Asian mmo made for children under the age of 8.

  6. #18266
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post


    This is THE ONLY "cave" zones I accept.

    F*CK OFF WITH ZARALEK-TYPE OF STUFF!

    It was beyond disgusting to do stuff with disney-moles.

    Felt like some random Asian mmo made for children under the age of 8.
    Weird, Zaralek seems very similar to this:



    Are you simply having an issue with Niffen? WoW has wolf people, panda people, snake people, cow people, badger people, turtle people and so much more, but it seems that mole people is just too much.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2023-09-20 at 05:14 AM.
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  7. #18267
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    People have been sure a revamp was going to happen for like four expansions now. I don't see why they'd bother going out of their way to damage control this particular instance.
    You gotta admit it's been even more taken for granted this time around, with the anniversary and all the datamined assets.

    I've been arguing for a revamp for years, but it's only now it has really gotten traction outside of these threads imo.

  8. #18268
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    You gotta admit it's been even more taken for granted this time around, with the anniversary and all the datamined assets.

    I've been arguing for a revamp for years, but it's only now it has really gotten traction outside of these threads imo.
    Not really though? People were absolutely 100% convinced before BfA that 8.0 was going to be some sort of revamp, and many of the leaks were dumb Lordaeron revamp leaks. People were pretty sure about a Lich Queen Northrend revamp prior to SL, and even more sure, because of all the datamined assets, and dev comments acknowledging that people wanted something more traditionally fantasy that 10.0 was going to be a revamp.

    Opinions don't seem to be any more consolidated this time around. Something new shows up (see: nautical assets) and people jump on the Southsea/otherside of the world nautical expansion train, then a week later we get something else (updated city assets) and people jump on the revamp train.

    Doesn't make much sense from Blizzard's pov to bother trying to change optics, especially when Blizzard are the ones putting out those suggestive assets in the first place. Especially doesn't make sense to do it through a secondary channel, like telling a content creator to talk about the actual theme.

    They could have just 11.0 folder'd some random mushroom model or rock and people would have jumped immediately on that thing.

  9. #18269
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Not really though? People were absolutely 100% convinced before BfA that 8.0 was going to be some sort of revamp, and many of the leaks were dumb Lordaeron revamp leaks. People were pretty sure about a Lich Queen Northrend revamp prior to SL, and even more sure, because of all the datamined assets, and dev comments acknowledging that people wanted something more traditionally fantasy that 10.0 was going to be a revamp.

    Opinions don't seem to be any more consolidated this time around. Something new shows up (see: nautical assets) and people jump on the Southsea/otherside of the world nautical expansion train, then a week later we get something else (updated city assets) and people jump on the revamp train.

    Doesn't make much sense from Blizzard's pov to bother trying to change optics, especially when Blizzard are the ones putting out those suggestive assets in the first place. Especially doesn't make sense to do it through a secondary channel, like telling a content creator to talk about the actual theme.

    They could have just 11.0 folder'd some random mushroom model or rock and people would have jumped immediately on that thing.
    Yeah, you might be right. Good points.

  10. #18270
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Weird, Zaralek seems very similar to this:



    Are you simply having an issue with Niffen? WoW has wolf people, panda people, snake people, cow people, badger people, turtle people and so much more, but it seems that mole people is just too much.
    Nope. Not at all.
    Did you even play campaign in wc3?

    Know the aesthetics of the place?


    Also, I dont mind the MODEL of the mole people... but how their CHARACTERS and VOICES are done is.... beyond disgusting.
    I always turn sound off when I enter that place.

    They sound like teenage kids before their voice starts snapping.


    All other beast-humanoids you mentioned have 100000x better writing and sound acting.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also... the only cavernous zones I can stand (but actually like as well) are Wailing Caverns and Maraudon.

    Hmmm... dunno if BRD would fit into the same category, but I like the aesthetics of Blackrock mountain too.

    Sadly, we wont see that epic design anytime soon with these devs

    Especially the Maraudon. That place YELLS "adventoure, explorstion, danger" to you once you enter the instance.

  11. #18271
    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    Especially the Maraudon. That place YELLS "adventoure, explorstion, danger" to you once you enter the instance.
    Yeah, must be all those scary flower mobs.

  12. #18272
    I would be up for Undermine, I would prefer a more comprehensive Underdark expansion that includes more areas. So ofc Undermine but also Hyjal Barrows, Azjol'Nerub and potentially other places like an expanded Terramok, the Oracle Caverns, Blackrock Mountain underground, maybe the hives beneath Silithus (with the sword and all the Azerite there) and ofc some Titan facility leading to the World Soul itself. The premise could be a race against the Harbinger who is trying to get to the physical location of the World Soul. You could have the capital of the expansion be in Kezan or you could have us reach the Titan facility and instead be protecting it from Xal or Azshara or whoever it might be trying to come for the Soul.

  13. #18273
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I would be up for Undermine, I would prefer a more comprehensive Underdark expansion that includes more areas. So ofc Undermine but also Hyjal Barrows, Azjol'Nerub and potentially other places like an expanded Terramok, the Oracle Caverns, Blackrock Mountain underground, maybe the hives beneath Silithus (with the sword and all the Azerite there) and ofc some Titan facility leading to the World Soul itself. The premise could be a race against the Harbinger who is trying to get to the physical location of the World Soul. You could have the capital of the expansion be in Kezan or you could have us reach the Titan facility and instead be protecting it from Xal or Azshara or whoever it might be trying to come for the Soul.
    An "Undermine expansion" is 100% never going to just be (or even mainly be) Undermine. It'd be one zone at best, with the capital built into a subsection of it much like Bolarus' actual functional city part was just the area surrounding the docks.

  14. #18274
    Quote Originally Posted by justwatching View Post
    Yeah I'm not sure that damage control is going to help...thematically I cant possibly see this recapturing lapsed players. They need something along the lines of Legion or WoD(thematically) thats very core "Warcraft" and that everyone can kind of resonate with.
    It should be mentioned that I think a world revamp could happen even if we go into an underground region for the expansion.

    I also think a bit like Bellular does, that what old school Warcraft players miss is something cool and easy to get into. Watching its cinematics and cutscenes, and then playing the game, should get you pumped. "For the Horde," and all that.

    WoD, Legion and BfA all had amazing cinematics that helped bring players in. Doesn't have to showcase a human in Elwynn forest for it to fee llike Warcraft.

    For example, the new expansion could be hyped up with a cinematic that echoes the Cataclysm cinematic a little bit. Children of the First Flesh unearth something deep underground. We get a glimpse of a vast underground cave, and perhaps the "Ancient One" being awakened? Maybe the Harbinger narrates it. This cinematic focuses on the impending danger, the doom and gloom. Azeroth is in danger like never before.

    Then they could give us a second cinematic that focuses on the feature that is the World Revamp. Rather than it being the theme of the expansion, it might be something they patch in after a while. This cinematic emphasises the fact that Azeroth's world-soul is waking up and healing (although also at risk of being taken by the Void, of course). So we'll see the world renewed.
    Last edited by Worldshaper; 2023-09-20 at 05:59 AM.

  15. #18275
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    It should be mentioned that I think a world revamp could happen even if we go into an underground region for the expansion.

    I also think a bit like Bellular does, that what old school Warcraft players miss is something cool and easy to get into. Watching its cinematics and cutscenes, and then playing the game, should get you pumped. "For the Horde," and all that.

    WoD, Legion and BfA all had amazing cinematics that helped bring players in. Doesn't have to showcase a human in Elwynn forest for it to fee llike Warcraft.

    For example, the new expansion could be hyped up with a cinematic that echoes the Cataclysm cinematic a little bit. Children of the First Flesh unearth something deep underground. We get a glimpse of a vast underground cave, and perhaps the "Ancient One" being awakened? This cinematic focuses on the impending danger, the doom and gloom. Azeroth is in danger like never before.

    Then they could give us a second cinematic that focuses on the feature that is the World Revamp. Rather than it being the theme of the expansion, it might be something they patch in after a while. This cinematic emphasises the fact that Azeroth's world-soul is waking up and healing (although also at risk of being taken by the Void, of course). So we'll see the world renewed.
    An extensive underdark expansion can also "join" the world together to some extent. If you have caverns from Hyjal to Silithus to Kezan to Blackrock to Northrend all joined together by a central zone at the World Soul. Imagine diving with your flying mount into an opening close to the sword, flying all the way down to the core and then going back up and exiting into Blackrock Mountain through a lava shaft.

  16. #18276
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    An extensive underdark expansion can also "join" the world together to some extent. If you have caverns from Hyjal to Silithus to Kezan to Blackrock to Northrend all joined together by a central zone at the World Soul. Imagine diving with your flying mount into an opening close to the sword, flying all the way down to the core and then going back up and exiting into Blackrock Mountain through a lava shaft.
    That'd be amazing.

  17. #18277
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    It should be mentioned that I think a world revamp could happen even if we go into an underground region for the expansion.

    I also think a bit like Bellular does, that what old school Warcraft players miss is something cool and easy to get into. Watching its cinematics and cutscenes, and then playing the game, should get you pumped. "For the Horde," and all that.

    WoD, Legion and BfA all had amazing cinematics that helped bring players in. Doesn't have to showcase a human in Elwynn forest for it to fee llike Warcraft.

    For example, the new expansion could be hyped up with a cinematic that echoes the Cataclysm cinematic a little bit. Children of the First Flesh unearth something deep underground. We get a glimpse of a vast underground cave, and perhaps the "Ancient One" being awakened? Maybe the Harbinger narrates it. This cinematic focuses on the impending danger, the doom and gloom. Azeroth is in danger like never before.

    Then they could give us a second cinematic that focuses on the feature that is the World Revamp. Rather than it being the theme of the expansion, it might be something they patch in after a while. This cinematic emphasises the fact that Azeroth's world-soul is waking up and healing (although also at risk of being taken by the Void, of course). So we'll see the world renewed.

    You are absolutely right that the rule of cool is important.

    That being said I'm not sure if the current wow team can deliver on that..and if I'm going to be honest they haven't really since Legion. So when I think of an Undermine expansion from this team I think of 10.1 and I cant possibly see that being attractive to lapsed players.

    Now maybe you are correct and its a combination of revamp + undermine zones and maybe that will do but I remain skeptical that they can execute that. In any case they need big changes and lots of fan service to make lapsed players remember why they love Warcraft and you are right that it has to start with the cinematic.

  18. #18278
    Quote Originally Posted by justwatching View Post
    That being said I'm not sure if the current wow team can deliver on that..and if I'm going to be honest they haven't really since Legion.
    BfA delivered Rule of Cool in spades. I mean, Jaina signalling the fleet? That C'thrax invading Dazar'alor? Anything Azshara did?

  19. #18279
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    An "Undermine expansion" is 100% never going to just be (or even mainly be) Undermine. It'd be one zone at best, with the capital built into a subsection of it much like Bolarus' actual functional city part was just the area surrounding the docks.
    The whole idea the Undermine being a sandbox city the size of a continent could work if it was similar to something like Jak II (and Jak III)'s Haven City or even Bullworth from Bully rather than something like in Grand Theft Auto 5.

    The idea of a city being the size of a whole expansion continent however is something that's never been done before in WoW. Having different sections of the city being quest areas with different plots... like one end of the city is a run-down dilapidated area that's been trashed by various gangs at war with each other, another section is a more high-end part of the city but corrupt moguls and trade princes run this area and will snuff out any competition that gets in their way.

    And not every part of the city is liveable.. there's one part of the city where they test out the latest bombs and explosive technology resulting in mad bomber type goblins trying to test their products on real humanoids... or have one section of the city being a former residential zone turned into a quarantined radioactive wasteland where the goblins dump all their hazardous waste from the city. This leads to wild-life pouring in from the city like Troggs and Kobolds.

    And finally the real "major city" aspect is a large plaza full of shops and vendors. The gimmick being that Gallywix owns every shop, but there is a growing group of goblins trying to topple his monopoly, which is how the factions come into play.

    Now whether Blizzard can execute it well or even if they intend to go that route is a different matter all together, but it is possible.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    BfA delivered Rule of Cool in spades. I mean, Jaina signalling the fleet? That C'thrax invading Dazar'alor? Anything Azshara did?
    What about the Tidestone holding back all the water around Nazjatar?

  20. #18280
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    BfA delivered Rule of Cool in spades. I mean, Jaina signalling the fleet? That C'thrax invading Dazar'alor? Anything Azshara did?
    Thinking about it you are right.

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