1. #18361
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    With there being a number of factors that make it seem increasingly likely, I honestly have to wonder why they're doing it. The notion that Dragonflight is a purely transitory expansion makes some sense, especially if we're getting a character like Fyrakk as the final boss, and it's really the only reason I could realistically imagine for why a relatively well-received expansion would get a treatment previously exclusively given to expansions that were pretty highly panned and hemorrhaged subscribers.
    I think it because the reason that the shorter expansions were short each time it was for a different reason.

    WOD- Failed development, gave up

    SL- Hate towards setting, story, company and systems (and/or was planned to be short)

    DF- Test to see if they can change how expansions are delivered and/or planned to be short

    WOD wasn't despised before it was cut, it was hated BECAUSE it was cut. Even if you believe SL was cut because it was hated it doesn't explain why DF "gets cut" when its not hated. There's just a different reason each time, and DF being intentionally shorter explains why the content cadence and minor patch sizes are improved.

    tl;dr They probably planned on DF being shorter regardless of whether or not it was liked, and it being liked isn't changing that it's just three raids. DF could be the new normal, or explicitly shorter to transition to whatever 11.0 (normal size) is.
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2023-09-14 at 06:41 PM.

  2. #18362
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    I don't see BFA as a failure. I see BFA as Legion but without the extra dev time from a half assed expansion. BFA was only really bad at the start, but became solid from 8.2 onwards.
    I wouldn't say BfA lacked dev attention so much as it lacked thought put into the systems.
    Maybe the issues would have been smoothed out with another 6 months of effective dev time, maybe not.
    One could perhaps argue that BfA tried to recapture the Legion genie by having loads of new toys for the players to find, and that they didn't have enough time for all of these.

    The story in BfA I don't think would have been fixed by more time though. A faction war expansion predicated on such a shocking moment would never work. If nothing else solely because you cannot have one faction lose in a realistic way.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  3. #18363
    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    The problem is: the current raid design sucks, and participation is very low compared to M+ dungeons, that's why they're focusing a lot more on World Events and outdoor content.

    I don't know if you guys noticed, but we never had this amount of outdoor content that Dragonflight gave us in previous expansions.

    Blizzard is focusing on the content that most people do: Solo Content.

    Aberrus didn't even have a pre-rendered cinematic at the end.

    Hopefully, there will be some changes for raids in 11.0, because raiding nowadays is not as fun as it used to be.
    Also worth mentioning Raids never really had a huge player base compared to just causal content. Remember that back in Cata they introduced LFR because raids werent popular and we might just be seeing the natural progression of that idea where less raid content but more causal content

  4. #18364
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I think it because the reason that the shorter expansions were short each time it was for a different reason.

    WOD- Failed development, gave up

    SL- Hate towards setting, story, company and systems (and/or was planned to be short)

    DF- Test to see if they can change how expansions are delivered and/or planned to be short

    WOD wasn't despised before it was cut, it was hated BECAUSE it was cut. Even if you believe SL was cut because it was hated it doesn't explain why DF "gets cut" when its not hated. There's just a different reason each time, and DF being intentionally shorter explains why the content cadence and minor patch sizes are improved.

    tl;dr They probably planned on DF being shorter regardless of whether or not it was liked, and it being liked isn't changing that it's just three raids. DF could be the new normal, or explicitly shorter to transition to whatever 11.0 (normal size) is.
    WoD sure, but SL was cut short due to Covid, and if DF is cut short it will more likely be because they are planning something big for 11.0.

    This isn't the first time Blizzard will have cut a raid tier, and I doubt they are dumb enough to gamble on the small amount of goodwill they built up being enough to placate the playerbase if the next expansion isn't looking amazing from the start.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  5. #18365
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    tl;dr They probably planned on DF being shorter regardless of whether or not it was liked, and it being liked isn't changing that it's just three raids. DF could be the new normal, or explicitly shorter to transition to whatever 11.0 (normal size) is.
    The latter seems much more sensible, whereas the former seems a bit like a bit of an iffy decision that could invite a bit of controversy and thus would be a bit of a questionable decision in the wake of Shadowlands and the reputation failure that came from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    WOD wasn't despised before it was cut, it was hated BECAUSE it was cut. Even if you believe SL was cut because it was hated it doesn't explain why DF "gets cut" when its not hated. There's just a different reason each time, and DF being intentionally shorter explains why the content cadence and minor patch sizes are improved.
    I think I did fail to account for the other problem, which is troubled development. We know that was a problem for both WoD and Shadowlands, whereas there aren't as many indications of that being the case for Dragonflight. It may just be less egregious and more well-concealed this time, but if it really has been cut short, it absolutely would have to be because the expansion's always been intended to be a transitory expansion that's shorter than the others. I can see—somewhat—what you mean with the patch cadence and larger volume of content in minor patches, but the former already worked with the three-patch Legion; admittedly, however, one can attribute that to WoD before it being cut short.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    This isn't the first time Blizzard will have cut a raid tier, and I doubt they are dumb enough to gamble on the small amount of goodwill they built up being enough to placate the playerbase if the next expansion isn't looking amazing from the start.
    That's my best guess. They'd have to be ridiculously confident in whatever comes next or have made a very terrible mistake to deviate from prior precedent this significantly.
    "Wounds are for the desperate, blows are for the strong;
    balm and oil for weary hearts all cut and bruised with wrong.
    I forgive thy treason, I redeem thy fall;
    for iron—cold iron—must be master of men all!"


    You'll believe it when you see it for yourself.

  6. #18366
    Pandaren Monk Worldshaper's Avatar
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    Just a thought, do you guys think the Void Elf / Telogrus Rift music is inspired by the Ethereals and K'aresh?

    It sounds mildly sort of... Oriental or Arabic or something. Almost out of Aladdin, but more ominous.

    I wonder how they would pull off a K'aresh patch or expansion. They've already brought a planet to Azeroth (Argus), so that's not very original anymore.

    Could K'aresh be in another dimension, sort of ... on Azeroth? I wouldn't like it if we just took another spaceship there. It doesn't fit that theme.

  7. #18367
    Quote Originally Posted by Izalla View Post
    Can I get a source on this? Because I've never noticed anything that confirms there is an alternate Xe'ra or that she went to alternate Draenor. The naaru Yrel follows seems to not actually be named yet (not saying it isn't her, just that I've never seen it confirmed).
    The main justification is that there's a mention of a Light Mother in Yrel's sermon book, which does seem pretty convincing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Izalla View Post
    Yrel doesn't seem to actually have physically joined the Army of the Light, but rather is building up her contribution to it by converting all of Draenor.
    I think this is plausible. It's worth noting that the sermon doesn't mention anything about the Light Mother being physically-present, just that she's somewhere and sent visions to Yrel. It's possible that she's trying to recruit to bolster the forces of the Army of the Light from the Light or elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Just a thought, do you guys think the Void Elf / Telogrus Rift music is inspired by the Ethereals and K'aresh?

    It sounds mildly sort of... Oriental or Arabic or something. Almost out of Aladdin, but more ominous.
    That's plausible. The void elves have a pretty significant connection to the ethereals, given that it was an ethereal that effectively led to the creation of the race.

    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Could K'aresh be in another dimension, sort of ... on Azeroth? I wouldn't like it if we just took another spaceship there. It doesn't fit that theme.
    Don't really see something like that happening. Could see it being that K'aresh is reached through a portal, though. Maybe the Sunwell explodes? Alternatively, one way of doing it that's more distinct from the Dark Portal or Felstorm would be to have a massive portal storm of numerous smaller rifts open for a Void invasion.
    "Wounds are for the desperate, blows are for the strong;
    balm and oil for weary hearts all cut and bruised with wrong.
    I forgive thy treason, I redeem thy fall;
    for iron—cold iron—must be master of men all!"


    You'll believe it when you see it for yourself.

  8. #18368

  9. #18369
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Just a thought, do you guys think the Void Elf / Telogrus Rift music is inspired by the Ethereals and K'aresh?

    It sounds mildly sort of... Oriental or Arabic or something. Almost out of Aladdin, but more ominous.

    I wonder how they would pull off a K'aresh patch or expansion. They've already brought a planet to Azeroth (Argus), so that's not very original anymore.

    Could K'aresh be in another dimension, sort of ... on Azeroth? I wouldn't like it if we just took another spaceship there. It doesn't fit that theme.
    Don't think it's inspired by much besides reversing soundbites to sound weird.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  10. #18370
    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrad Wagner View Post
    @Arafal Can we get the tuskarr soup chef too?
    I'm tempted to suggest some kind of conquistador with the Scarlet insignia, but if Ybarra's comment holds, that won't happen because their destination was presumably the same as the Nightsquall's.
    "Wounds are for the desperate, blows are for the strong;
    balm and oil for weary hearts all cut and bruised with wrong.
    I forgive thy treason, I redeem thy fall;
    for iron—cold iron—must be master of men all!"


    You'll believe it when you see it for yourself.

  11. #18371
    The Lightbringer Izalla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrad Wagner View Post
    @Arafal Can we get the tuskarr soup chef too?
    Make sure it's a snapshot of him from the little cutscene after the soup is made
    give up dat booty
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendra View Post
    <3
    For the matriarchy.

  12. #18372
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    I don't see BFA as a failure. I see BFA as Legion but without the extra dev time from a half assed expansion. BFA was only really bad at the start, but became solid from 8.2 onwards.
    It's a matter of quality vs quantity. BfA had a lot going on at launch: islands, warfronts, Azerite armor, but what damned it all was that the content was either just not fun or felt like a bizarre step back from Legion's iteration of a similar system. It didn't matter that 8.0 had all that content because ultimately it wasn't enjoyable. Essences turned out okay and 8.3 might be one of the most love it or hate it patches ever, but ultimately those launch failures stuck with BfA. Then we saw how SL's systems were received.

    Systems aren't the problem in and of themselves, it's that they've largely just kept designing poor ones over and over for a while now (honestly I don't know where I stand on the debate that Legion's systems were bad too, just shiny and new). To me the chief challenge right now isn't whether they can put out content fast enough, it's whether they're capable of designing good new content or if "new island, M+, public events, raid, megadungeon" is all you can expect.

  13. #18373
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    I'm tempted to suggest some kind of conquistador with the Scarlet insignia, but if Ybarra's comment holds, that won't happen because their destination was presumably the same as the Nightsquall's.
    However, in the instance we want to fantasize and consider it possible anyway, here's a quick edit for that.

    "Wounds are for the desperate, blows are for the strong;
    balm and oil for weary hearts all cut and bruised with wrong.
    I forgive thy treason, I redeem thy fall;
    for iron—cold iron—must be master of men all!"


    You'll believe it when you see it for yourself.

  14. #18374
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Nobody expects the scarlet inquisition.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  15. #18375
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izalla View Post
    Can I get a source on this? Because I've never noticed anything that confirms there is an alternate Xe'ra or that she went to alternate Draenor. The naaru Yrel follows seems to not actually be named yet (not saying it isn't her, just that I've never seen it confirmed). Yrel doesn't seem to actually have physically joined the Army of the Light, but rather is building up her contribution to it by converting all of Draenor.
    I don’t believe it is confirmed as such beyond it being the light mother, though given that they already have all the light forged gear it seems a given they have already joined up as they had none of that stuff in Wod.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  16. #18376
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post


    Nobody expects the scarlet inquisition.


    Can you put this on the planet somewhere

  17. #18377
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Can you put this on the planet somewhere


    Formerly known as Arafal

  18. #18378
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    I feel there needs to be some text on the ancheevie. Maybe #cope?
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  19. #18379
    Such a Masterpiece!

  20. #18380
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Look at those beautiful ships, ascending beyond the stars. Absolutely pristine.
    "Wounds are for the desperate, blows are for the strong;
    balm and oil for weary hearts all cut and bruised with wrong.
    I forgive thy treason, I redeem thy fall;
    for iron—cold iron—must be master of men all!"


    You'll believe it when you see it for yourself.

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