1. #18801
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Blizzard has already confirmed they are not going to do expansions that have little variation in theme. They specifically mention Old god expansion. I think for similar reasons Void will never be its own expansion, but more like a X.3 type of thing, like Argus.
    Eh sorry, not just void. Void vs light exp. Maybe with some dread lords and sire D thrown in.

    There's a ton they could use. It won't be just a purple mess.

  2. #18802
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    I've wondered this.

    For the Pantheon's case, Norgannon's spell saved their spirits after Sargeras mollywhopped them. If not for that spell... they would have been perma-killed...?


    ...but Sargeras killed Aggramar waaaaaay before the events of "Legion" and Aggramar returned twisted during the Antorus raid. Is it possible you cannot kill a titan soul so easily? Is it possible Sargeras used a similar spell to save Aggramar's soul to (at that time) save and use at a later time?
    If they're like demons, their body die but their souls survives. What I find weird is that it doesn't come back to the plane of Order?

  3. #18803
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Blizzard has already confirmed they are not going to do expansions that have little variation in theme. They specifically mention Old god expansion. I think for similar reasons Void will never be its own expansion, but more like a X.3 type of thing, like Argus.
    Legion was a Disorder-expansion, yet it had lots of variety. From all the zones of the Broken Isles, to the quests surrounding the Order Halls and Artifact Weapons. We even had interesting raids and dungeons, not all of which were about the Burning Legion.

    Heck, they even managed to create some amount of variety in Shadowlands, the Death expansion. Who would have guessed we'd get a magical fae forest in there?

    11.0 is a Void expansion. But it won't be just tentacles and starry skies.

  4. #18804
    Quote Originally Posted by Phinx View Post
    I'm curious where they are going to put Amirdrassil, after it has been pulled from the Emerald Dream. Maybe we do get rid of the Sword in Silithus after all and the tree will be placed there to close the wound.
    The Nightelfs will destroy Orgrimmar and place the tree there. It will be a bloodbath similar to Teldrassil. Since Orgrimmar is build inside cliffs and having only 3 exits, it will be easy to block them all. Everything will be set on fire, the remaining survivors that looked for shelter in lakes etc. will be executed afterwards. The tree will be born with blood and revenge. The troll settlement to the south of Orgrimmar will also be eradicated quickly after the Orgrimmar incident. The remaining survivors will move to Mulgore. If the last Horde Bastion of Kalimdor will fall is not set in stone as the Tauren have more in common with the Nightelf than the rest of the Horde. A change of allegiance of the remainers in Mulgore is an option if the pledge to destroy every last Undead is done. The preparations to attack Lordaeron are ongoing and not too soon the crusade to kill every last Undead will be starting.

  5. #18805
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    I've wondered this.

    For the Pantheon's case, Norgannon's spell saved their spirits after Sargeras mollywhopped them. If not for that spell... they would have been perma-killed...?


    ...but Sargeras killed Aggramar waaaaaay before the events of "Legion" and Aggramar returned twisted during the Antorus raid. Is it possible you cannot kill a titan soul so easily? Is it possible Sargeras used a similar spell to save Aggramar's soul to (at that time) save and use at a later time?
    Aggramar died/was destroyed at the same time the other titans where. Sargeras and Aggramar fought at one point, but aggramar retreated and called the rest of the pantheon for help. Eonar was able to escape somehow(probably with elunes help) and Aggramar was simply the first to give in to sargeras corruption and torture in antorus.

  6. #18806
    Quote Originally Posted by Arai View Post
    The Nightelfs will destroy Orgrimmar and place the tree there. It will be a bloodbath similar to Teldrassil. Since Orgrimmar is build inside cliffs and having only 3 exits, it will be easy to block them all. Everything will be set on fire, the remaining survivors that looked for shelter in lakes etc. will be executed afterwards. The tree will be born with blood and revenge. The troll settlement to the south of Orgrimmar will also be eradicated quickly after the Orgrimmar incident. The remaining survivors will move to Mulgore. If the last Horde Bastion of Kalimdor will fall is not set in stone as the Tauren have more in common with the Nightelf than the rest of the Horde. A change of allegiance of the remainers in Mulgore is an option if the pledge to destroy every last Undead is done. The preparations to attack Lordaeron are ongoing and not too soon the crusade to kill every last Undead will be starting.
    I can only applaud... Bravo! The Nightelf in me sings!

    ...but I sincerely doubt Blizz has any desire to become so invested in what would take some decent storytelling to get to the denouement of your narrative. That would actually take...well, work.

  7. #18807
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Archimonde x2, Kil’jaeden x2.
    Kel’thuzad x3.
    Technically Sylvanas x2.
    Technically Onyxia x3
    Nefarian x2
    And…
    Ragnaros x2, who we’re seeing get name dropped and discussed returning (again) in this very thread.

    The list goes on with historical examples that disprove your statement.
    As the top of raids? In other words the final boss more than once? The only ones I’m aware of that did that were Kil’Jadeen and Archimonde, but those were different cases.

    Btw, I didn’t say that Blizzard had never done that, I said that I don’t see them doing that for Azshara, because she simply doesn’t have that mystique anymore because we stomped her and the big bad she was working for. Fighting her again would be a rerun of fighting her in BFA and be rather pointless.

  8. #18808
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolicious View Post
    Aggramar died/was destroyed at the same time the other titans where. Sargeras and Aggramar fought at one point, but aggramar retreated and called the rest of the pantheon for help. Eonar was able to escape somehow(probably with elunes help) and Aggramar was simply the first to give in to sargeras corruption and torture in antorus.
    I think the failure there was that we got the Chronicle's story yet we never found how the Titans got captured. Imagine if Legion had a secondary plot about Sargeras' forces trying to capture the sparks of the Titans that arrived on Azeroth. Heck maybe we could have found Wrathion chained somewhere in Antorus in that he was used to get the last parts of Aman'thul (which would explain why he was missing) and part of the plot for Stormheim would be the Legion trying to bait Odyn so they can capture him for the same reason.

    I honestly would rather not have secondary sources at all if they are going to be contrasted. It's telling that I fully expect that the actual reasons behind the Incarnates' anger will only be available in the novel.

  9. #18809
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I think the failure there was that we got the Chronicle's story yet we never found how the Titans got captured. Imagine if Legion had a secondary plot about Sargeras' forces trying to capture the sparks of the Titans that arrived on Azeroth. Heck maybe we could have found Wrathion chained somewhere in Antorus in that he was used to get the last parts of Aman'thul (which would explain why he was missing) and part of the plot for Stormheim would be the Legion trying to bait Odyn so they can capture him for the same reason.

    I honestly would rather not have secondary sources at all if they are going to be contrasted. It's telling that I fully expect that the actual reasons behind the Incarnates' anger will only be available in the novel.
    What are you talking about? It's not difficult to puzzle together from the clues we have that he grabbed them almost immediately after he destroyed their bodies, interrupting Norgannons plan to transfer to the Keepers on Azeroth.

    By the time Wrathion is born, Aman'thul has been tortured for thousands of years. That wouldn't make any sense.

  10. #18810
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    What are you talking about? It's not difficult to puzzle together from the clues we have that he grabbed them almost immediately after he destroyed their bodies, interrupting Norgannons plan to transfer to the Keepers on Azeroth.

    By the time Wrathion is born, Aman'thul has been tortured for thousands of years. That wouldn't make any sense.
    Do we know they have been tortured for that long? I guess I'll have to check the quotes from the encounter again. It could be that they were only captured recently. The Chronicle meanwhile tells us they escaped and came to Azeroth only the Keepers could not exactly contain them and they kind of fizzled out with most of the Keepers not even figuring out what happened.

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Coven_of_Shivarra

    I reread the quotes and nothing about them suggests they have been at this for millenia
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2023-09-22 at 09:55 AM.

  11. #18811
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Do we know they have been tortured for that long? I guess I'll have to check the quotes from the encounter again. It could be that they were only captured recently. The Chronicle meanwhile tells us they escaped and came to Azeroth only the Keepers could not exactly contain them and they kind of fizzled out with most of the Keepers not even figuring out what happened.
    Well, Sargeras probably didn't just leave them sitting in a jar for the time. When they were captured isn't really in question.

  12. #18812
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Well, Sargeras probably didn't just leave them sitting in a jar for the time. When they were captured isn't really in question.
    How is it not in question? We explicitly know they escaped his grasp at that moment. We do not know when or how they were captured. Did they remain on Azeroth? Did they slowly drift in space back to their homeworlds or to sanctuaries like Elunaria? None of that is known. The part of them that we absolutely do know remained is what Lei Shen seized from Ra'den and then was acquired by us for Wrathion.

  13. #18813
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    How is it not in question? We explicitly know they escaped his grasp at that moment. We do not know when or how they were captured. Did they remain on Azeroth? Did they slowly drift in space back to their homeworlds or to sanctuaries like Elunaria? None of that is known. The part of them that we absolutely do know remained is what Lei Shen seized from Ra'den and then was acquired by us for Wrathion.
    Which should still be in Wrathion's possession as of today, and as such, cannot be part of this.

  14. #18814
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Which should still be in Wrathion's possession as of today, and as such, cannot be part of this.
    Sure, but that is because the Coven of Shivarra encounter just doesn't work well with what we learn in the Chronicle about Norgannon somehow salvaging the Titan souls. And again, it doesn't explain how Sargeras got them. I am not saying he shouldn't be able to get them but it'd be nice to learn how, where and when.

    Anyway, this is going off topic.

  15. #18815
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Kind of. Her big opportunity was in BFA, and Blizzard made her the top of a raid. You don't get more exposure than that. It's silly to believe that they'll make her top of a raid again.
    Just like Ragnaros, Nefarian, Kel’thuzad, Archimonde, Illidan, Kil’jaeden, Deathwing were all used as the top of their own raids and never used in major roles or as villains and raid bosses again in the future, right?

    All of them, KT and Illidan (actually used as the poster child and main character of an entire expansion instead so an even bigger role) aside were used again at the top of a raid.

    - Ragnaros: MC/Firelands
    - Nefarian: BWL/BWD
    - Archimonde: Battle for Hyjal/Hellfire Citadel
    - Kil’jaeden: Sunwell/Tomb of Sargeras

    Deathwing was used again as penultimate raid boss and a major figure in Dragonflight. Archimonde was used as the main overarching antagonist of an expansion. Kil’jaeden the secondary antagonist and the most immediate of an expansion. Ragnaros used as the secondary antagonist also of an expansion.

    - - - Updated - - -
    @Teriz I’m really struggling to follow how you think Azshara as an expansion boss, with all the possibilities a character such as her would undoubtedly have, would be underwhelming yet you’ve advocated for Gallywix in an azerite mech suit as the end boss for an Undermine expansion.

    The most powerful arcane user in Azeroth’s history who allowed us to beat her previously. A character with links to presumably the Void Lords currently, as well as Sargeras vs. a character that would most definitely be a joke to the player characters powered by a substance we saw plenty of in BfA whilst dealing with similarly powered up constructs.

    Make it make sense.
    Last edited by Santandame; 2023-09-22 at 11:49 AM.

  16. #18816
    Thought:

    Aman'Thul created Odyn, the Prime Designate in charge of the other Keepers (including Tyr), of keeping Yogg-Saron imprisoned, and of Azeroth's safety.

    Aman'Thul also had a vision that the Old Gods would once devour Azeroth, in the Hour of Twilight.

    Aman'Thul therefore also granted Tyr's request to create the Dragon Aspects, to protect Azeroth from this armageddon.

    Odyn never approved of this plan, causing a rift between him and the other Keepers.

    Tyr ended up a hero, however:

    • Helped defeat Galakrond, Yogg-Saron's terrible creation.
    • Indirectly created the Dragon Aspects and their flights.
    • Aided the titan-forged and eventually died heroically in battle against the minions of Yogg-Saron (after Yogg-Saron had corrupted Loken).
    • Inspired the creation of the Paladins.

    Now, Tyr is being resurrected by the dragons, while the new Harbinger of the Void has laid claim to the essence of Galakrond (which allegedly is the essence of Yogg-Saron).

    So...

    Awful lot of stuff coming together here, don't you think?

    I'll bet that the next expansion will involve old Yoggieboi somehow, or at least his essence will be used for something foul (duh).

    Will Odyn mess up somehow? As in, will he finally do something really bad?

    "The Lord of Ravens will turn the key."

    Vyranoth really triggers him in 10.2, I wonder if that will cause a chain of events.

    For example, his forces pursue us to the Dragon Isles in 10.2.5, ready for round 2. End up messing up Tyr's revival.

    Is Vyranoth being honest with us? Is she helping us round up all kinds of Dragons just so they can all be attacked at the same time?

  17. #18817
    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    Merely a setback...
    But it doesn't matter
    Oh no a fated season with every raid and buyable gear THE HORROR

  18. #18818
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    As the top of raids? In other words the final boss more than once? The only ones I’m aware of that did that were Kil’Jadeen and Archimonde, but those were different cases.
    KT, Ony, Nef, and Rag were all also end bosses of a raid twice.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  19. #18819
    Quote Originally Posted by pacotaco View Post
    Glory to the Tel'dorei!

    Cursed, but brilliant, you have my respect

  20. #18820
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    Just like Ragnaros, Nefarian, Kel’thuzad, Archimonde, Illidan, Kil’jaeden, Deathwing were all used as the top of their own raids and never used in major roles or as villains and raid bosses again in the future, right?

    All of them, KT and Illidan (actually used as the poster child and main character of an entire expansion instead so an even bigger role) aside were used again at the top of a raid.

    - Ragnaros: MC/Firelands
    - Nefarian: BWL/BWD
    - Archimonde: Battle for Hyjal/Hellfire Citadel
    - Kil’jaeden: Sunwell/Tomb of Sargeras

    Deathwing was used again as penultimate raid boss and a major figure in Dragonflight. Archimonde was used as the main overarching antagonist of an expansion. Kil’jaeden the secondary antagonist and the most immediate of an expansion. Ragnaros used as the secondary antagonist also of an expansion.
    Re-read what I said. Nowhere did I say it had never happened before. What I said was they wouldn't make Azshara the top of a raid after she was the top of the raid before because of what happened in BFA. Not only did we stomp her, we also stomped the big bad pulling her strings. Again, it'd be like Sylvanas coming back as the main antagonist after we beat her and her master who was pulling her strings in Shadowlands.

    Those examples you mentioned are entirely different circumstances.

    - - - Updated - - -
    @Teriz I’m really struggling to follow how you think Azshara as an expansion boss, with all the possibilities a character such as her would undoubtedly have, would be underwhelming yet you’ve advocated for Gallywix in an azerite mech suit as the end boss for an Undermine expansion.

    The most powerful arcane user in Azeroth’s history who allowed us to beat her previously. A character with links to presumably the Void Lords currently, as well as Sargeras vs. a character that would most definitely be a joke to the player characters powered by a substance we saw plenty of in BfA whilst dealing with similarly powered up constructs.

    Make it make sense.
    Now who's talking about power level? I advocate for Gallywix as a potential antagonist because at least it'll be something different to what we've already experienced in Cataclysm and BFA. We've already fought Azshara (multiple times), her undersea monstrosities, and her Naga in Nazjatar and we've already fought N'Zoth. Believing that Blizzard would have us do that again with Xal'atath as N'Zoth's replacement is bizarre logic.

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