Dragonflight 10.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Worldshaper]

I agree with you.

Yeah, agreed. Not much more to add other than you're right.

This just reminded me of Ankahet. The Nerubians are technically using Titan technology. I'm surprised they never again brought up the incubation technology. Maybe an expansion exploring underground or 'Hollow Azeroth' wouldn't be bad after all, throw in Nazjatar proper for good measure.

I think there's room for a second domain of Azshara, question is where. She's supposed to return to rule over the land, sky, and sea, so she needs a palace somewhere I bet. Maelstrom 2.0?

Yep, this humanization is also what puzzles me most about the theme. While the game itself is super enjoyable and alt friendly and the outdoor zones are well executed the main theme "dragons" could have been implemented a bit better. dragons are f*cking huge, massive, ancient creatures that live long and mostly EAT humans as snacks. Also spit fire and live in caves. What we see experience in those omni observer perspective are dialogues between elves with fancy armor talking about their feelings and the past. As players the dragons shift more often from human to dragon form but while I often fled from elite jarradins in zaralek I never thought "oh shit there is a dragon" while moving outdoor. Never.
Just imagine you go into a dark cave to search for some quest giver/objective. You can barely see anything. Suddenly glowing eyes appear and "DRAGONname xyz is about to spit fire" on the screen. Either you gtfo or you are instant dead. Because eventually dragon fire should burn you to death i guess?
Not that cataclysm would have been any better there but just look at this awesome trailer where this massive deathwing kills all goblins while emerging on azeroth (plus this awesome voice acting )

While shadowlands story logic was very questionable with sylv and the jailor at least sylvanas had some danger vibes. Same as the maw. I died quite often, especially with poor geared/leveling alts.

I hope they find a theme for the next xpac where villiains and danger is easier to excecute

Yeah that's all true.

I hope that in 11.0, with the new Age of Dragons having officially begun and their numbers replenished somewhat, the dragons will fight at our side against the Void. Not in Visage form, but as huge, hulking beasts of the sky. They'll finally carry out their ancient charge and help save Azeroth from the Hour of Twilight.

Otherwise what the heck was the point of Dragonflight? Just to get the enemy what they needed? No, the Dragons must be used in a big way soon.

[Nymrohd]

I think there's room for a second domain of Azshara, question is where. She's supposed to return to rule over the land, sky, and sea, so she needs a palace somewhere I bet. Maelstrom 2.0?

Imagine this. You dive into the Maelstrom, see the wound in the crust of the world and find Naga structures all the way to the depths and beyond. You pass through to a massive Naga city in a shallow underground ocean with massive spires rising above the water and the World Soul shining like a sun above you. Naga sea witches manipulate the ocean stretching massive tentacles of water that stretch all the way to the core, encircling it

[Pheraz]

See, they don't have to live in caves. But they should live somewhere. Valdrakken has all but one indoor space designed for dragons. It seems that WoW dragons are humanoids who can shapeshift into giant lizards instead of the opposite. How many of the buildings in the isles can two dragons fit in when crossing next to each other?

Well, Valdrakken is certainly cool and my critique is not a 1/10 critique or rant or anything.
But I guess they exactly wanted us to live beside dragons. "Wouldn't it be cool if players would feel like living beside dragons?"
Well, no this is kinda contradicting the whole mystery of humans vs dragons.
Sigurd vs fafnir
the d0rfs vs smaug
or "Drachenelfen" by bernhard hennen (no idea if this is available in english, though his "the elven" book is, which is fantastic but this is kinda o.t.)
All those portrait this much better. In the latter the dragons are the first creatures created by the "albs" (kinda godlike beings). They are huge, almost imortal, massive, telepathic and can prbly even make karate or judo, you get my point. For "lesser" jobs they have super special elves (dragon elves saga is the prelude to the elf saga where elves rule the world) specifically selected among elves. The elves train themselves for those jobs or sometimes are trained by the dragons with some telepathic tips or sth. But they fear the dragons and sometimes they are just killed because XYZ. The dragons fight against some super demons but this is a gain o.t.
But those are really only some elves like 10-20 per dragon "swarm"/aspect/cave. Most of humans, dwarfs and other elves just gtfo whenever there are dragons in sight.
Somehow dragonflight feels more like jurassic park when you exchange massive lizards with dinosaurs. It is certainly an interpretation for this theme that is not invalid but it is just not my cup of tea and I prefer dragon stories like the one from bernhard hennen

[Nymrohd]

And the thing is, it's not like doing whimsy with dragons is bad. Gorgonzormu is such a funny concept and it works because his market stall of cheeses preserved and aged with Bronze time magic just works. But then most of the city is clearly built for the Dragonkin, not the dragons.
Maybe dragons just don't need housing. What will a little rain do to them anyway?

[Foolicious]

The dude didn't start the idea of an underground expansion. There has been a lot of speculation and "leaks" regarding the idea of going below the ground, for example using the undermine.

It's also pretty much suggested by the current lore if you pay attention.

• The Harbinger wants the world-soul - where is that? In the planet's core.
• Iridikron is her lackey, and what is his element? Earth.
• Thrall is on the poster for BlizzCon, and what is he? World Shaman and (at least former) Earth-warder.
• We've run out of new continents to visit on Azeroth, and supposedly traveling with the pirates to the other side of the world isn't happening in this expansion.
• The story suggest a major Void showdown is coming up next, and the Harbinger is gathering powerful essences for something. What for? Resurrect some ancient monstrosity perhaps?
• The earthen of Khaz Algar is one of the major hints for future lore, and the Titan facility Uldaz sounds pretty dwafish. This fits with the book 'A Song of the Depths', where it is mentioned that the Harbinger has gathered the Children of the First Flesh, that are now toiling below. Why would this even be mentioned in a Dragonflight prophecy involving the current story, unless it had something to do with her plans?

There are also a lot of hints that either ancient kalimdor was basically build on top of a pre existing continent or that the most primal continent sunk into the sea when the titans ordered the world.
Xal'atath mentions "the scouring" and compares it to the cataclysm and the sundering. The forbidden reach lore book speaks of the sea giants creating kalimdor as either propaganda or unawareness of what lies beneath the waves. The author also talks about how the titans took away the real name of the land which they called kalimdor. The tomb of sargeras is build on top of something and its deepest chamber is very very deep in the earth.
Then we get told "The Legion burrows deep here. If they burrow deeper, they may not like what they find." by knaifu.

It could even be that this is avaloren and the assumption that it is simply a not yet found landmass on the back of azeroth is completely wrong.

[Grazrug]

TBH I liked Oribos more then Valdrakken. I got lost in the dragon city multiple times.

[Teriz]

He also posted this right before.



https://twitter.com/towelthetank/sta...03278878789953

If not Undermine, maybe a "Delves" feature for WoW? Randomly generated caves?

That's interesting, because this popped up a few days ago for Warcraft Rumble;



Mecha Kobolds, which I thought was rather strange, but its not so strange if we're talking about Kobolds in Undermine.

[Santandame]

BFA was the South Seas expansion - we're not getting that

Really wish people would stop spreading this nonsense.

[Worldshaper]

Imagine this. You dive into the Maelstrom, see the wound in the crust of the world and find Naga structures all the way to the depths and beyond. You pass through to a massive Naga city in a shallow underground ocean with massive spires rising above the water and the World Soul shining like a sun above you. Naga sea witches manipulate the ocean stretching massive tentacles of water that stretch all the way to the core, encircling it

Sounds pretty plausible. They must've spent those 10K years on something.

There are also a lot of hints that either ancient kalimdor was basically build on top of a pre existing continent or that the most primal continent sunk into the sea when the titans ordered the world.
Xal'atath mentions "the scouring" and compares it to the cataclysm and the sundering. The forbidden reach lore book speaks of the sea giants creating kalimdor as either propaganda or unawareness of what lies beneath the waves. The author also talks about how the titans took away the real name of the land which they called kalimdor. The tomb of sargeras is build on top of something and its deepest chamber is very very deep in the earth.
Then we get told "The Legion burrows deep here. If they burrow deeper, they may not like what they find." by knaifu.

It could even be that this is avaloren and the assumption that it is simply a not yet found landmass on the back of azeroth is completely wrong.

That's interesting. Although, are you sure the Scouring isn't a reference to the Scourge? I might have misunderstood that whisper. But now that I think about it, that seems a little silly. A 'scouring' isn't defined as an army of the undead marching across the land. The word is just vaguely similar to the Scourge, so I guess I glossed over it.

We also have a bunch of other old quotes, such as:

"Its surface blazes bright, masking shadows below."

"Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it."

"He gave himself to the deep places. He gave himself to me."

"She will show you the way. Come... come. The hour approaches when all eyes shall be opened."

"At the hour of her third death, she ushers in our coming."

"This blade is more than a mere dagger. It is a torch that shall light our path forward."

"Five keys to open our way. Five torches light our path."

"Dat blade has shiny eye. Always watchin us. Why you no see it?"

"It is ironic that the weakest of us may be the ultimate victor. C'Thun, Yogg-Saron, Y'Shaarj, and... well. Only one would remain to consume the world, that was always meant to be."

"The master hungers...the Heart shall feed his waking dream..."

"It appears the prison of N’zoth is not as strong as it once was. What you see is a tiny growth of the behemoth that may yet consume your world."

"A pity it now lies dormant. But anything that slumbers can be awakened."

"He calls from the depths, our herald has come,
The great eye watches from the darkness,
And it calls, she is the sacrificial lamb,
In the dreaming city she will be slaughtered."

Basically, I am 90% certain that the recurring theme of "Harbingers" is important in the context of the Void. A lot of their "NPCs" used that title over the years. Deathwing was a Harbinger, there were Twilight Dragon Harbingers in Endtime IIRC, Xal'atath is (presumably) a Harbinger, and so on. There's Harbinger Skyriss in the Arcatraz, Harbingers of the Void in Shadowmoon Valley, etc.

Then there's also all those quotes about "usher in our coming", "torches to light our path forward", etc.

I also think that Xal'atah is all but guaranteed to be the current Harbinger, to usher in the Hour of Twilight.

[Teriz]

I'd have to agree, despite being joke races, goblins and gnomes have something that most of the other races have lost to time.... PERSONALITY.

If they can make a "joke race" like Pandarens and expand their lore to where they aren't much of a joke anymore, why not the same for Goblins? (Gnomes already have some pretty depressing lore... literally 70% of their population in Gnomergan was decimated due to troggs and radiation and the ones that survived turned into Leper Gnomes driven to madness. Granted I don't like mechagnomes as an Allied Race (you can just slap those mechanical limbs on a regular gnome and you wouldn't miss anything)...but the concept of a Mechagnome is actually cool and probably only time WoW ever actually dives into the concept of transhumanism.)

Because some posters on WoW forum get triggered when you bring up anything dealing with Gnomes and Goblins.

The reality is that Undermine is one of the major locations of Warcraft. It really should be in the game as a place for players to visit, because there's really no place like it in the WC franchise. People are really being shortsighted when it comes to the potential this expansion could have. With Goblins and technology attached to the theme, you could really go pretty wild with the zone diversity. The WoW RPG describes it as follows;

Undermine is the nefarious capital of the goblin's trade empire, the Trade Coalition. Located beneath and within Kezan, Undermine is the center of goblin civilization. It is connected to the island via a series of volcanic tunnels which were created by Mount Kajaro's volcanic and tectonic activities.[10][11][12]

The trade princes each control their own private armies and trade fleets. As a result, Undermine is a busy place, as the goblin city goes about its business.

There are some Horde and Alliance ambassadors present in the Undermine.[13]

The main centers of population in Undermine are in volcanic caverns beneath Kezan. Secondary island caverns exist farther away, and the goblins have constructed tunnels of thick glass that lead to these smaller areas. Passing through these tubes means walking along the ocean's floor and looking out to see the colorful fish and hungry sharks nearby.[12] Bilgewater Port is linked directly to Undermine.[11]

As the capital of goblin culture, Undermine teems with chaotic activity. Goblin alchemists and tinkers practice their crafts and set off explosions. Slave markets bustle in out-of-the-way places. Shops and businesses of all kinds are based here, and the headquarters of the Trade Coalition, the Venture Company and myriad other enterprises are within this city. In Undermine, you can find the extremes on both ends: reeking slave pens in one area, the trade princes' lavish palaces in another. Zovzik's shop is located in the city.

Of particular interest is the fact that, wandering around Undermine, is a strange breed of a creature called hobgoblins. They resemble goblins, but are much taller and have purple skin.[14]

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Undermine

Interestingly, an article came out 12 years ago that talked about future WoW expansion locations; Undermine, Pandaria, and Broken Isles. Undermine remains the only location on that list that we haven't visited yet.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/2011-...-pandaria.html

[huth]

Two (young?) people - looks more like the untitled survival game than Warcraft.

Looks like somebody shopped a random black silhouette into it to me, to be honest.

[Santandame]

Alright, I'll bite. What makes people think an underground expansion is likely?
Is it the part where the human fights a Kobold in Elwynn? Because that seems like an extremely tenous link.
Would a murloc be a hint at Ankoan being the main ally in an underwater expansion? A picture of booty bay a hint at Nightsquall creating a pirate empire in Pandaria?

Not that I put any stock in Towelie whatsoever, but I find the human/kobold picture more indicative of a revamp than underground.

[Teriz]

Not that I put any stock in Towelie whatsoever, but I find the human/kobold picture more indicative of a revamp than underground.

We could potentially get both. We got new zones alongside the cataclysm revamp.

[Santandame]

Not at all but honestly that goes for all concepts. Imo they did not pull off Dragon Isles either.

I still believe that the Dragon Isles should have been in the sky.

Also think we should have gotten zones more distinctly themed around the Aspects.

- Autumnal forest similar to Eversong, Ruby Sanctum, Vermillion Redoubt for Red.
- Fantastical, mystical desert for Bronze with some smaller pocket dimensions bleeding out from various time ways.
- Lush jungle for the Green.
- Winter wonderland for the Blues with some of the Nexus architecture scattered throughout.
- Mountainous region for the Black.

I know that would have been very “theme park” and not to some peoples taste but I feel like that’s what most of us envisioned the Dragon Isles to be.

- - - Updated - - -

We could potentially get both. We got new zones alongside the cataclysm revamp.

I would prefer an underground expansion on its own, as well as South Seas. But I also would be happy with getting a revamp with the lines of Undermine, Tel’Abim, Plunder Isle, Khaz Algar and the Spider Kingdom as endgame zones.

[Nymrohd]

I still believe that the Dragon Isles should have been in the sky.

Also think we should have gotten zones more distinctly themed around the Aspects.

- Autumnal forest similar to Eversong, Ruby Sanctum, Vermillion Redoubt for Red.
- Fantastical, mystical desert for Bronze with some smaller pocket dimensions bleeding out from various time ways.
- Lush jungle for the Green.
- Winter wonderland for the Blues with some of the Nexus architecture scattered throughout.
- Mountainous region for the Black.

I know that would have been very “theme park” and not to some peoples taste but I feel like that’s what most of us envisioned the Dragon Isles to be.

My idea was that on the other side of the planet, there would be a huge thin titan tower rising from the sea (Uldorus) which lead to the World Soul (like Antorus did) and surrounding it would be 5 islands; one on the ground and four floating. These would be the Dragon Isles, the charge of the Dragonflights protecting Azeroth and they'd be invaded by N'zoth with separate forces against each isle (Qiraji, Nerubian, Mantid, N'zoth's own aquatic Aqir and then the Twilight Dragonflight). And ofc Odyn would have moved the Halls of Valor there now that they are unchained because he doesn't trust the flights to do their job. I'd have wanted this right after BfA.

[Teriz]

I would prefer an underground expansion on its own, as well as South Seas. But I also would be happy with getting a revamp with the lines of Undermine, Tel’Abim, Plunder Isle, Khaz Algar and the Spider Kingdom as endgame zones.

That's a bit much. Undermine in of itself would constitute a continent with multiple zones. Tel'Abim, Gadgetzhan, Plunder Isle, and some made up islands could offer up more zones. I don't see a scenario where you would go from Northrend all the way down to the South Seas and then into the Eastern Kingdoms entirely under the surface.

Potentially what we're looking at is Undermine being the starting hub and from there we go deeper into the planet. Possibly to a titan facility that could house the world soul or even be a prison for an old god that directly threatens the world soul. Blizzard could also bring in "The War" into the expansion giving us a mechanical threat from beneath the planet that potentially threatens Undermine and the titan facility. Not to mention whatever crazy shenanigans that Gallywix could be up to at this point.

In short, Undermine supplies us with more than enough material for an expansion on its own.

[Skildar]

My idea was that on the other side of the planet, there would be a huge thin titan tower rising from the sea (Uldorus) which lead to the World Soul (like Antorus did) and surrounding it would be 5 islands; one on the ground and four floating. These would be the Dragon Isles, the charge of the Dragonflights protecting Azeroth and they'd be invaded by N'zoth with separate forces against each isle (Qiraji, Nerubian, Mantid, N'zoth's own aquatic Aqir and then the Twilight Dragonflight). And ofc Odyn would have moved the Halls of Valor there now that they are unchained because he doesn't trust the flights to do their job. I'd have wanted this right after BfA.

Having BfA end with eternal palace and move on with an expansion where N'zoth attacks would have been the right path. Not that I didn't like 8.3 or shadowlands but nzoth didn't live up to its build up because of this. Let's hope they don't make the same mistake with Xal'atath.

[Worldshaper]

Having BfA end with eternal palace and move on with an expansion where N'zoth attacks would have been the right path. Not that I didn't like 8.3 or shadowlands but nzoth didn't live up to its build up because of this. Let's hope they don't make the same mistake with Xal'atath.

Depends on how far ahead they planned. Maybe they never intended for N'Zoth to be the last Old God to consume Azeroth. That means they had to finish him off like a B-plot just like in every other expansion, with C'thun, Yogg-Saron, and (kind of) Y'shaarj. Basically the Old God story had to wrap up before 9.0, 10.0 and 11.0, so they could instead have Xal'atath become the one to usher in the Void to Azeroth.

[Sondrelk]

We could potentially get both. We got new zones alongside the cataclysm revamp.

That's one of the main failings of Cataclysm though. What was the point of revamping zones if all you did with them was have some new levelling?
A world revamp should use the revamped zones to actually have the endgame content in it, otherwise it's just a whole lot of effort for basically no gain.

And that's also not to mention how it's effectively doubling the amount of work you have to do.

- - - Updated - - -

Having BfA end with eternal palace and move on with an expansion where N'zoth attacks would have been the right path. Not that I didn't like 8.3 or shadowlands but nzoth didn't live up to its build up because of this. Let's hope they don't make the same mistake with Xal'atath.

It was too crammed. And the patch just showed all the missed opportunities that came from it. The return of the Mantid for instance, but no time to explore the repercussions of that. Infected Titan facilities, but only for one quick scenario. Travelling around the world to famous Old God locations, but again only for one patch.

[Skildar]

well I'm still hoping against hope that Fyrakk manages to devouer the heart of Amirdrassil and then be infused by galakrond's essence. Because if he gets killed in 10.2 it would have mean that the whole plan of the incarnates up until now was useless thanks to Vyranoth.

Iridikron felt right as an adversary because he doesn't underestimate its foes and he decided to gather power before striking especially for this reason.

I understand that we need to win somehow but we fight Fyrakk when one foe changed team and the other is idling on the sidelines... if we kill the fire guy it would be a very weak victory where they plan ahead a lot and we just wing it without any effort