1. #19801
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    He pretty much said the next expansion would be in a cave. I don't see a scenario where we begin an expansion in a cave zone and then instantly exit the cave zone. If we're going underground, the continent is going to be underground.
    Why towellie would be spoiling the entirety of next expansion like over a month before?

    Why other streamers don't do it aswell?

    Im not saying it won't happen, but it would be very dumb for towelliee to just pretty much spoil everything and a theme and where expansion happens is one of the biggest things.

  2. #19802
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    Well, Blizzard is renowned for quick course correction. Ohhh wait..

    Look if this goes through this is going to be fun as fuck from a misery standpoint but yeah I think it makes it clear that the obvious path of least resistance is too expensive for them and that essentially means a lot more than just the fact they denied revamp but went ahead with a concept that could never fly if they just let unbiased focus tester tell them otherwise.
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  3. #19803
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheMizAwesome View Post
    Why towellie would be spoiling the entirety of next expansion like over a month before?

    Why other streamers don't do it aswell?
    Like I said, there is a possibility that Blizzard gave him the green light to do it, because there simply isn't a lot of hype for WoW's next expansion right now especially after Ybarra nixed the pirate idea. In fact, I completely expect Blizzard to start intentionally dropping leaks and hints in the next few weeks leading up to BlizzCon.

  4. #19804
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well actually Goblins are more played than Worgens, Dwarves, Gnomes, and quite a few allied races. Hardly the least played race in the game.

    https://wowanalytica.com/statistics
    I think that g&g should not be whole expansion. Patch or two in different expansion is good, I think. Like Undermine with Goblins and some sort of Uld-structure with Gnomes. Or Liberation of Gnomeregan, again.

  5. #19805
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I'm not aware of any point in WoW's history where Blizzard knew how players would react to an expansion before they released it, they simply released the expansion and watched what happened afterwards. Again, MoP is a prime example, where the expansion was openly ridiculed at the event it was announced, yet it went on to become one of the most beloved expansions in WoW's history. An underground expansion is in no way anywhere close to an apple cart flipper as MoP was, especially coming out right after Cataclysm.

    I'm failing to see how you're missing the logic.
    Blizzard constantly keeps track of how players react to stuff. You just said it yourself. They release something and see how well or bad it does.

    By your own logic, they would not bet everything on an underground expansion without seeing how it does first.

    Zaralek was an experiment. It did not work out. No full underground expansion (if it ever was planned for 12.0 or 13.0, something that I see as highly unlikely).

    Vashj'ir was an experiment. It did not work out. No full underwater expansion ever.

    Anyway, in one month we will know what happens.

    IMHO Blizzard is not in a position to risk WoW to a full underground expansion. More important, it was not in a position to risk WoW to a full underground expansion in SL, when they should have been planning Zaralek Caverns and 12.0.
    Last edited by Darkarath; 2023-09-26 at 01:44 PM.
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  6. #19806
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Like I said, there is a possibility that Blizzard gave him the green light to do it, because there simply isn't a lot of hype for WoW's next expansion right now especially after Ybarra nixed the pirate idea. In fact, I completely expect Blizzard to start intentionally dropping leaks and hints in the next few weeks leading up to BlizzCon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Like I said, there is a possibility that Blizzard gave him the green light to do it, because there simply isn't a lot of hype for WoW's next expansion right now. In fact, I completely expect Blizzard to start intentionally dropping leaks and hints in the next few weeks leading up to BlizzCon.
    I don't really see the hype generated by that outside of this forum much - Towelliee is an OG of wow and twitch but when it comes to numbers, he's not that big to create a echochamber of hype about something, i think normal "datamining" stuff get more views overall on social media than his posts about it, i might be wrong about the last one but im too lazy to go over his tweets.

    I think that towelliee is fucking with people in some way and also saying a little bit of truth.

  7. #19807
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I'm not aware of any point in WoW's history where Blizzard knew how players would react to an expansion before they released it, they simply released the expansion and watched what happened afterwards. Again, MoP is a prime example, where the expansion was openly ridiculed at the event it was announced, yet it went on to become one of the most beloved expansions in WoW's history. An underground expansion is in no way anywhere close to an apple cart flipper as MoP was, especially coming out right after Cataclysm.

    I'm failing to see how you're missing the logic.
    Uh, do you actually think what was ridiculed and subsequently praised about MoP was the continent? What was ridiculed was Pandaren, the "family friendly" feel, and the "China friendly" approach. What was praised was the class design and content release schedule and quality. Neither related to the continent.

    Releasing an expansion entirely underground is exactly the sort of thing you'd see as a big risk, simply because of the inherent lack of freedom for the player and freedom of design for the developers. No WoW expansion has come even close to something as bold as "you will be in a cave the entire expansion!" as the main selling point.

  8. #19808
    My hope for whatever future zones they make is that they don't make them flying only. Thaldraszus is a good example of this. No way to enter on foot, and the terrain is so uneven you ain't really going to go anywhere on foot/ground mount.

  9. #19809
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    I think that g&g should not be whole expansion. Patch or two in different expansion is good, I think. Like Undermine with Goblins and some sort of Uld-structure with Gnomes. Or Liberation of Gnomeregan, again.
    Yeah I don't believe that even Undermine would be full goblin. More likely it'll be a cosmopolitan port with a variety of different peoples living it in, much like Booty Bay or Gadgetzhan. Beyond that, I could see Kobolds, Nerubians, Trolls, killer robots, mushroom monsters, and other creatures making an appearance in such an expansion, which is why I think it has some potential.

  10. #19810
    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheMizAwesome View Post
    I don't really see the hype generated by that outside of this forum much - Towelliee is an OG of wow and twitch but when it comes to numbers, he's not that big to create a echochamber of hype about something, i think normal "datamining" stuff get more views overall on social media than his posts about it, i might be wrong about the last one but im too lazy to go over his tweets.

    I think that towelliee is fucking with people in some way and also saying a little bit of truth.
    I think occam's razor applies here: Towelliee is lying for views.

  11. #19811
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    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    Uh, do you actually think what was ridiculed and subsequently praised about MoP was the continent? What was ridiculed was Pandaren, the "family friendly" feel, and the "China friendly" approach. What was praised was the class design and content release schedule and quality. Neither related to the continent.

    Releasing an expansion entirely underground is exactly the sort of thing you'd see as a big risk, simply because of the inherent lack of freedom for the player and freedom of design for the developers. No WoW expansion has come even close to something as bold as "you will be in a cave the entire expansion!" as the main selling point.
    The entire theme was ridiculed. It was ridiculed so badly that Metzen had to tell the crowd that the expansion wasn't a joke during the announcement itself. I use that example to drive home the point that Blizzard doesn't means test their expansion theme, they just go with what they feel people will like and sees what happens next.

    Again, I simply disagree that an underground expansion is harder sell than an expansion about a parody of China with kung fu Panda people right after we had an expansion with Old Gods and Deathwing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    I think occam's razor applies here: Towelliee is lying for views.
    I don't know, he very well could be. However he also said that a revamp isn't happening in retail either. So if he's lying about all of it, he'll gain viewers in the short term, but that's going to hurt his viewership in the long term. Especially when he can still gain viewers by not saying any of that stuff at all. He definitely wasn't this specific in the previous cycle.

  12. #19812
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well actually Goblins are more played than Worgens, Dwarves, Gnomes, and quite a few allied races. Hardly the least played race in the game.

    https://wowanalytica.com/statistics
    Yup, 0.30% more than Dwarves. 2% rather than 1.7%. Dismantles my entire argument. And just like Gnomes, Dwarves and Worgen, they are getting no content whatsoever. At least they get used for comedy relief unlike Worgen and Dwarves, I guess

  13. #19813
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheMizAwesome View Post
    I think that towelliee is fucking with people in some way and also saying a little bit of truth.
    Hey, that's always a possibility. I never said any of this is 100%. Merely that it is entirely possible given the current circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Yup, 0.30% more than Dwarves. 2% rather than 1.7%. Dismantles my entire argument. And just like Gnomes, Dwarves and Worgen, they are getting no content whatsoever. At least they get used for comedy relief unlike Worgen and Dwarves, I guess
    Eh, I wouldn't bet on that. Gilneas and Gnomeregan are both prime targets for revamp very soon.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2023-09-26 at 02:02 PM.

  14. #19814
    Quote Originally Posted by Terremer View Post
    it wasn't the zone itself that failed, it was the content of the zone, which was essentially timegating and hunting for rare, that screwed things up
    otherwise zaralek has been very well received, and it's not for nothing that they've declared their intention to reuse the technology in the future
    Failure is failure, whatever the reasons.

    And I repeat, I enjoyed the zone, and I hope (and I am pretty sure) that they will make more underground zones in the future.

    A full underground expansion? No. Not a chance IMO.

    They always try to have very different settings and themes in any expansion. And you might say that they can make it work, because they can make several caverns so big and different that it would not seem underground, and while I agree with you, many would not. Underground would just be underground for them.

    Hell, people complained a lot about ''too much green'' after Tanaan and Legion, and I would say that Legion had very different settings. Imagine the shitshow if we were to get a full expansion underground.
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  15. #19815
    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheMizAwesome View Post
    I think that towelliee is fucking with people in some way and also saying a little bit of truth.
    "The next expansion takes place in a cave"

    The most famous cave in the game, much to the undermine's chagrin, is the caverns of time.

    Multiverse Expansion.

    All kidding aside, if he does know anything about the new expansion, there's no reason for him not to tell everything he knows. So at most, he's playing a game of telephone with the vaguest of insider information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    Failure is failure, whatever the reasons.
    Well, either way they wouldn't be changing the basis of the expansion based on its reception: 11.0 would have been well past the conceptual stage by the time 10.1 came out.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2023-09-26 at 02:11 PM.

  16. #19816
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    TI don't know, he very well could be. However he also said that a revamp isn't happening in retail either. So if he's lying about all of it, he'll gain viewers in the short term, but that's going to hurt his viewership in the long term. Especially when he can still gain viewers by not saying any of that stuff at all. He definitely wasn't this specific in the previous cycle.
    honestly the viewers on twitch are usually so forgiving no matter what certain streamer say, especially when towellie can just say that he was f'n with people and people in chat probably will clap that he did a good job.

    When it comes to world revamp at this point i believe more that it will happen in classic+ rather than on retail, i would not like that at all but i feel like it might happen..

  17. #19817
    I could see part of the expansion being underground, just not the whole expansion.

    If they went with a south seas sailing expansion, Undermine could be the Horde capital for the expansion. Alliance could maybe have Bloodsail Hold or something (friendly through rogue's hall and Mathias Shaw connection? I could see it).

  18. #19818
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    It would however start on the backfoot by having to prove it's a good idea, rather than stuff like the Dragon Isles which conversely has to prove it's not a bad one.
    Underground is a very specific concept which the average player likely isnt immediately onboard with, similar to the Shadowlands. It could be good, but it has that extra hurdle to cross.

    A world revamp has a whole bunch of fallbacks that it could go to if the actual world revamp isnt all that it's cracked up to be. Several well known locations that could be mined for interesting dungeons or quests. The all important nostalgia factor is very much in play in this case.

    MoP is exactly what we are talking about with an underground expansion. Players were against it to start with, and had to prove it was good. Conversely expansions like BfA has more leeway because the concept is so appealing that it had to repeatedly prove it was bad for the mood to sour.


    In short: An underground expansion will be a bad idea because Blizzard doesnt have enough goodwill, or enough support around the Underground concept to sell an expansion on that alone.
    Maybe if Zaralek cavern was absolutely beloved by the community and everyone were clamoring for more content there. But they are not, most people seem quite happy to leave it behind, even if some people like it. I loved Vashj'ir, but that doesnt mean I think it would be a good idea for a full expansion, just that I would love it.
    Yeah, I think a hollowed earth expansion could work as a follow-up after the world revamp and Avaloren are done, but it needs more setup first. Right now, they need the nostalgia bonus to get all the players back from the Shadowlands exodus.

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  19. #19819
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The entire theme was ridiculed. It was ridiculed so badly that Metzen had to tell the crowd that the expansion wasn't a joke during the announcement itself. I use that example to drive home the point that Blizzard doesn't means test their expansion theme, they just go with what they feel people will like and sees what happens next.

    Again, I simply disagree that an underground expansion is harder sell than an expansion about a parody of China with kung fu Panda people right after we had an expansion with Old Gods and Deathwing.
    Yes, MoP was ridiculed. It also sold poorly initially because of that. Not to mention that it wasn't even the content itself that was ridiculed but the premise, the continent was within reason and nothing crazy. Having an expansion that's entirely in a cave is a far bigger risk because it's the content itself that could potentially be ridiculed.

    I can definitely see an expansion that has a LOT of underground content, but primarily let alone exclusively? No way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheMizAwesome View Post
    When it comes to world revamp at this point i believe more that it will happen in classic+ rather than on retail, i would not like that at all but i feel like it might happen..
    No chance in hell Classic gets a world revamp, Blizzard are already terrified of making changes to the game for one reason or another.

  20. #19820
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    No chance in hell Classic gets a world revamp, Blizzard are already terrified of making changes to the game for one reason or another.
    I mean i hope it won't but lately i started feeling that it might actually happen for some reason.

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