Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Darkarath]

If an allied race is coming that would be Drakonid. They have been heavily teased in DF IMO, and it would make sense that they become playable at the end of DF.

Impopular opinion but I hope that after Drakonid and Ethereals we stop getting playable races. There are so many races that none of them get the proper attention. They are there just for cosmetic reasons and bring nothing to the table but diluting the main factions instead of strengthen them.

With so many races it would be increasingly impossible for Blizzard to make a significant faction conflict in a realistic way, as probably almost none of the opinions or feelings about said conflict of the different races would be taken into account.

Also you can forget about playable Centaur. Just for mounts and transmogs alone it would not be worth the work.

[Cheezits]

If an allied race is coming that would be Drakonid. They have been heavily teased in DF IMO, and it would make sense that they become playable at the end of DF.

Impopular opinion but I hope that after Drakonid and Ethereals we stop getting playable races. There are so many races that none of them get the proper attention. They are there just for cosmetic reasons and bring nothing to the table but diluting the main factions instead of strengthen them.

With so many races it would be increasingly impossible for Blizzard to make a significant faction conflict in a realistic way, as probably almost none of the opinions or feelings about said conflict of the different races would be taken into account.

The Alliance Human Characters have been at the forefront of every expansion, and yet Humans received little to zero lore between Cata and their DF Heritage quest.

The problem is that the expansions take place in new areas every time, not the addition of new races. The heritage quests and a few random quests each expansion are the only time we get racial lore, and I don't think shrinking the amount of races in the soup will change anything as long as they keep ignoring EK/Kalimdor.

[Edlarel]

With so many races it would be increasingly impossible for Blizzard to make a significant faction conflict in a realistic way, as probably almost none of the opinions or feelings about said conflict of the different races would be taken into account.

there doesn’t have to be race-related issues for there to be faction conflict in a realistic way. People fight all the time for millions of stupid reasons.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Worgen, forsaken, Kul'tirans, Panda - these 4 i think don't have allied race counterparts when it comes to model.

Worgen i guess = Saberon
Forsaken = not AR but maybe thin kul'tirans
Kul'tirans = Mok'nathal
Panda = Tuskarr's.

[FossilFree]

Thin humans and K'thir are the two models I think that reuse Forsaken rigs, and unfortunately neither got female bodies.

Hmm, friendly K'thir in Avaloren perhaps? Maybe they are the heretics but we actually side with them or something. K'thir would be easy to make female models with too, just gotta change the head and reskin a female Forsaken model (without bones showing, of course).

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

I really don't understand why you guys want a world revamp expansion. Cataclysm was extremely underwhelming and was just plain stupid in how it was done.
"Oh, Tanaris and Thousand Needles get flooded and stay that way despite being deserts, but Dustwallow Marsh that is next door get no changes at all despite having an open harbour and coastline that would let lots of water in. And Barrens will have cracks and wounds filled with lava but it will be the only zone with that. Omg guys this is great!"


Also, would they really bother to bring back all these items in the most recent patch that used to drop pre-Cataclysm, if they were just going to revamp Kalimdor/EK in the next expansion? It doesn't make sense. It would make more sense to bring them back in the revamped world together with all the other items that would be affected by the new world revamp. Again; it doesn't make sense.

[flan1337]

I really don't understand why you guys want a world revamp expansion. Cataclysm was extremely underwhelming and was just plain stupid in how it was done.
"Oh, Tanaris and Thousand Needles get flooded and stay that way despite being deserts, but Dustwallow Marsh that is next door get no changes at all despite having an open harbour and coastline that would let lots of water in. And Barrens will have cracks and wounds filled with lava but it will be the only zone with that. Omg guys this is great!"


Also, would they really bother to bring back all these items in the most recent patch that used to drop pre-Cataclysm, if they were just going to revamp Kalimdor/EK in the next expansion? It doesn't make sense. It would make more sense to bring them back in the revamped world together with all the other items that would be affected by the new world revamp. Again; it doesn't make sense.

Well its because you are thinking like an old player - wow doesn't just need a world revamp for shits and giggles but because the 1-60 experience is fundamentally broken and horrible. You get tossed through BfA as a new player with 0 understanding of whats happening. You can't do Cata beyond 3-4ish zones and then get even more confused.

At least in FF their leveling experience takes you through a storyline with a start and finish.

[Sondrelk]

I really don't understand why you guys want a world revamp expansion. Cataclysm was extremely underwhelming and was just plain stupid in how it was done.
"Oh, Tanaris and Thousand Needles get flooded and stay that way despite being deserts, but Dustwallow Marsh that is next door get no changes at all despite having an open harbour and coastline that would let lots of water in. And Barrens will have cracks and wounds filled with lava but it will be the only zone with that. Omg guys this is great!"


Also, would they really bother to bring back all these items in the most recent patch that used to drop pre-Cataclysm, if they were just going to revamp Kalimdor/EK in the next expansion? It doesn't make sense. It would make more sense to bring them back in the revamped world together with all the other items that would be affected by the new world revamp. Again; it doesn't make sense.

Because we believe the revamp could be doen significantly better than Cata?

Cata had two main problems surrounding the world revamp.
1. Too heavily tied to the Cataclysm, meaning many zones were destroyed.
2. Revamped zones were only for levelling, which made the effort kinda pointless. For 99% of the expansion, and for players.

A new world revamp could avoid those problems, and indeed give us racial storylines. A feature that is sorely missed for new players.

[username993720]

Worgen, Pandaren and Forsaken never got one. However the current allied race ACTUALLY teased by Blizzard is yet another Draenei skin, the Broken (as of Legion that is) so I don't think there is any pattern.

Pretty sure the Dracthyr are the equivalent of Worgen.

[Makorus]

Pretty sure the Dracthyr are the equivalent of Worgen.

Worgen Skeleton isn't similar to Dracthyr in any way.

[Cheezits]

Pretty sure the Dracthyr are the equivalent of Worgen.

People have tried to say their rig is the worgen rig because they have similar animations, but they are completely unique animation sets (outside of visage).

[Raetary]

I really don't understand why you guys want a world revamp expansion. Cataclysm was extremely underwhelming and was just plain stupid in how it was done.

With that logic we might as well shut down wows servers and end the franchsie then.
All expansions have aspects that they executed terribly, guess all future iterations of any of those aspects will be automatically terrible! /s

Just because cata did its thing badly, doesn't mean a future expansion repeating the thing would do it badly.

People want the revamp explicitly not to repeat catas mistakes.

[Dracullus]

Well its because you are thinking like an old player - wow doesn't just need a world revamp for shits and giggles but because the 1-60 experience is fundamentally broken and horrible. You get tossed through BfA as a new player with 0 understanding of whats happening. You can't do Cata beyond 3-4ish zones and then get even more confused.

At least in FF their leveling experience takes you through a storyline with a start and finish.

It get fixed in 11.0 - new player start with evergreen Exile's Reach, then goes to Dragon Isles, then 11.0 content. DF is fresh start in story after time skip. Why the hell they should force players to learn 20 year history of game? What next, force them to play Warcraft 1-3 before to get full picture?

FF forcing you to play X expansions before you can play with everyone is horrible and totally new player unfriendly. I heard they want to fix it as well and allow skip in future expansion.

And many of us don't want world revamp to 'fix leveling', cause it doesn't need fixing. We simply want return to old places rebuilded with new technology after 13+ years.

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

Because we believe the revamp could be doen significantly better than Cata?

Cata had two main problems surrounding the world revamp.
1. Too heavily tied to the Cataclysm, meaning many zones were destroyed.
2. Revamped zones were only for levelling, which made the effort kinda pointless. For 99% of the expansion, and for players.

A new world revamp could avoid those problems, and indeed give us racial storylines. A feature that is sorely missed for new players.

"Could have" is the story of Blizzard's life. They could have done a million things a million times better, but they don't, because they don't know how to.
There is a 99% chance a revamp would be lackluster, just like Cataclysm.

[ChairmanKaga]

Why the hell they should force players to learn 20 year history of game?

The update would be bringing all those zones into the current timeframe of the game. They wouldn't be doing 20 year old content. They wouldn't even be doing 14 year old Cata content.

[flan1337]

It get fixed in 11.0 - new player start with evergreen Exile's Reach, then goes to Dragon Isles, then 11.0 content. DF is fresh start in story after time skip. Why the hell they should force players to learn 20 year history of game? What next, force them to play Warcraft 1-3 before to get full picture?

FF forcing you to play X expansions before you can play with everyone is horrible and totally new player unfriendly. I heard they want to fix it as well and allow skip in future expansion.

And many of us don't want world revamp to 'fix leveling', cause it doesn't need fixing. We simply want return to old places rebuilded with new technology after 13+ years.

I didnt say force players to learn 20 years of history? A world revamp would mean players can go 1-70(lets say) in a updated setting and then start at 70 in the new xpack.

Sure you can start with Dragonflight which is better than SL and BfA as the story starts off slow ,but it also has characters that a new player knows nothing about? My GF recently started WoW and its been a cluster fuck of not explaining anything. So she still needs to "learn 20 years of history" to care about anything.

Edit: This also mean by your logic is that every xpack will be the new player experience which isn't a healthy way to operate. My opinion - contrary to a lot of WoW players - I do not like my MMO being this niche thing it is now and would like new players to enjoy the game as I do.
Edit2: While I like exile reach I do think it took away from the awesome nature that WoW had which was each race had its own starting zone.

[Ersula]

If all allied races use a similar skeleton to current races I think the panda skeleton is the last one left

I think people would love Tuskaar (Pandarian reskin) and Gnoll (New Gnoll models are conspicuously a reskin of Worgen) as allied races but the biggest barrier to that is they would need an actual pretense to join the horde or alliance.

[Makorus]

I didnt say force players to learn 20 years of history? A world revamp would mean players can go 1-70(lets say) in a updated setting and then start at 70 in the new xpack.

Sure you can start with Dragonflight which is better than SL and BfA as the story starts off slow ,but it also has characters that a new player knows nothing about? My GF recently started WoW and its been a cluster fuck of not explaining anything. So she still needs to "learn 20 years of history" to care about anything.

Edit: This also mean by your logic is that every xpack will be the new player experience which isn't a healthy way to operate. My opinion - contrary to a lot of WoW players - I do not like my MMO being this niche thing it is now and would like new players to enjoy the game as I do.

What characters does Dragonflight have that need explaining though?

Sure, Khadgar is there, but his pre-DF character is pretty much irrelevant in DF, and all the Aspects are old characters, but you learn enough of them from leveling that you aren't missing out on much.

Meanwhile, BFA Alliance makes no sense whatsoever if you are new. Zandalar is a bit more indepedent, but still lacks the "Why do they distrust us, and who is Sylvanas anyway"

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

I didnt say force players to learn 20 years of history? A world revamp would mean players can go 1-70(lets say) in a updated setting and then start at 70 in the new xpack.

Sure you can start with Dragonflight which is better than SL and BfA as the story starts off slow ,but it also has characters that a new player knows nothing about? My GF recently started WoW and its been a cluster fuck of not explaining anything. So she still needs to "learn 20 years of history" to care about anything.

Edit: This also mean by your logic is that every xpack will be the new player experience which isn't a healthy way to operate. My opinion - contrary to a lot of WoW players - I do not like my MMO being this niche thing it is now and would like new players to enjoy the game as I do.
Edit2: While I like exile reach I do think it took away from the awesome nature that WoW had which was each race had its own starting zone.

Your GF still won't know what the hell is going on nor the history of the game with a world revamp. It is just a task that is too great for Blizzard and their goblins running things. Just look at Shadowlands; that was a great way to go back to a bunch of old characters, their story, lore and what they have meant for the game - but we only got probably not even 5 of them. They didn't even bring back Arthas. That's how terrible they are at weaving in the old lore and stories. They only know how to do new stuff sprinkled with the occasional old stuff that on top of it is often changed from what was originally said about it.

It is soooo much easier for them to build new zones from scratch than trying to revamp the old world that is a web of story and history. And if they only do a few zones, it's going to be just like the Cataclysm; immensely lackluster.

And if it's above you to go through the quests, dungeons and raids in the old zones to learn the lore and the stories, how can you claim you care to learn the lore in the first place? You don't. People just want a twitter post containing all the old lore, but that's not how things work. The lore is simply too vast.

[flan1337]

What characters does Dragonflight have that need explaining though?

Sure, Khadgar is there, but his pre-DF character is pretty much irrelevant in DF, and all the Aspects are old characters, but you learn enough of them from leveling that you aren't missing out on much.

Meanwhile, BFA Alliance makes no sense whatsoever if you are new. Zandalar is a bit more indepedent, but still lacks the "Why do they distrust us, and who is Sylvanas anyway"

You are right they do a lot better job for people who don't know who the aspects are compared to BFA which is basically joining a story mid-way. I guess I think for a new person with 0 idea of what warcraft is the story still is pretty left field and asks "why should I care for these characters - because I just met them". Now I am only talking about the dragons I think Ohn'ahran Plains is probably the strongest when it comes to telling a really good story in DF.