Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[flan1337]

Your GF still won't know what the hell is going on nor the history of the game with a world revamp. It is just a task that is too great for Blizzard and their goblins running things. Just look at Shadowlands; that was a great way to go back to a bunch of old characters, their story, lore and what they have meant for the game - but we only got probably not even 5 of them. They didn't even bring back Arthas. That's how terrible they are at weaving in the old lore and stories. They only know how to do new stuff sprinkled with the occasional old stuff that on top of it is often changed from what was originally said about it.

It is soooo much easier for them to build new zones from scratch than trying to revamp the old world that is a web of story and history. And if they only do a few zones, it's going to be just like the Cataclysm; immensely lackluster.

And if it's above you to go through the quests, dungeons and raids in the old zones to learn the lore and the stories, how can you claim you care to learn the lore in the first place? You don't. People just want a twitter post containing all the old lore, but that's not how things work. The lore is simply too vast.

I am not in the camp that players should need to know the full story of WoW to enjoy it that would be nuts and you are right the lore is simply too vast( and boring at times ). I just want a really good 1-80 story for players. Now it could be that Dragonflight and the Next xpact indeed becomes that and has a really good over arching story ,but I think WoW still runs into the issue where when you hit level 70 and have to move onto the next xpact you loose all the post leveling story.

I am not a game dev or remotely know how to handle story crafting. So the question still stand how do you explain all the major points of DF in the new xpact for new players that aren't going to do DF post leveling content when they are shoved into 11.0.

Edit: I also roleplay so my want for a #worldrevamp is because I love these classic zones AND want to see them updated, bigger and more beautiful. People on private servers do it - so can blizz.

[Yus atath]

Thrall Key art + Towelliee + Chinese predictor + mount leak + sequel expansion theory pretty much put anything void or light-based to rest. I'm sure there will be void and light elements, but this ship is turning decidedly towards Underground/Elemental expansion.

What has Towelliee said?

[Cheezits]

I think people would love Tuskaar (Pandarian reskin) and Gnoll (New Gnoll models are conspicuously a reskin of Worgen) as allied races but the biggest barrier to that is they would need an actual pretense to join the horde or alliance.

Are Tuskarr actually Pandaren reskins?

[Teriz]

What has Towelliee said?

He hinted at an underground expansion.

[Makorus]

Thrall Key art + Towelliee + Chinese predictor + mount leak + sequel expansion theory pretty much put anything void or light-based to rest. I'm sure there will be void and light elements, but this ship is turning decidedly towards Underground/Elemental expansion.

The expansion that is going to have Odyn, and referenced the dwarves being affected by something similiar to the Curse of Flesh that is emanated by a fissure after Iridikron stole a Void artifact and dipped with Xalatath is not going to be Void based, but instead Elemental themed based... nothing?

[Ersula]

Are Tuskarr actually Pandaren reskins?

Yes but both the new Tuskarr & Gnolls only use the male pandarian/worgen skeleton respectively.

[Raetary]

It get fixed in 11.0 - new player start with evergreen Exile's Reach, then goes to Dragon Isles, then 11.0 content. DF is fresh start in story after time skip. Why the hell they should force players to learn 20 year history of game? What next, force them to play Warcraft 1-3 before to get full picture?

FF forcing you to play X expansions before you can play with everyone is horrible and totally new player unfriendly. I heard they want to fix it as well and allow skip in future expansion.

And many of us don't want world revamp to 'fix leveling', cause it doesn't need fixing. We simply want return to old places rebuilded with new technology after 13+ years.

Pretty sure @flan1337 example was in regards to their story having a definitve beginning and end.
Not that Blizzard should force us to do 400 hours of story content before we get to play the game.

And 11.0 doesn't solve anything.
They are just moving the Reach a bit to the right.
All the issues a newcomer faces upon entering Stormwind still persist, from vaguely being directed onto the isles while also being bombarded with every other possible avenue to lvl in, to being locked out of dungeons and having to interact with years old outdated systems that aren't relevant anymore.

DF starts off less imposing than BfA, but barely 5 minutes into the lvling and you are already interacting with Alexstrazsa and Wrathion and need to have wowpedia ready to understand who those characters are and what exactly they are doing here.

Your GF still won't know what the hell is going on nor the history of the game with a world revamp.

No, but immediately understanding the history of the game isn't the point.

The point is to start of small and then have the world build itself organically around your character while you lvl up.

Where the player gets to understand the very basics first and not like now, where the player immediately gets to interact with characters that require 3 novels worth of lore to understand, before they get sent into another magic land that requires an additional 3 novels worth of lore to understand.

[Teriz]

The expansion that is going to have Odyn,

Where does the next expansion reference Odyn?

and referenced the dwarves being affected by something similiar to the Curse of Flesh that is emanated by a fissure

Earthen, not Dwarves.

after Iridikron stole a Void artifact and dipped with Xalatath

That is the current expansion, not the next one.

is not going to be Void based, but instead Elemental themed based... nothing?

Based on multiple clues that point in that direction. Including datamined mounts and pets that actually relate to the next expansion, not the current one.

[Makorus]

Where does the next expansion reference Odyn?




Earthen, not Dwarves.



That is the current expansion, not the next one.



Based on multiple clues that point in that direction. Including datamined mounts and pets that actually relate to the next expansion, not the current one.

The books which hinted at Avaloren/Khaz Algar literally have Odyn desperately trying to find the places, so much so that he is sending suicide expeditions out just on the off-chance that he might find the "heretics". And what a surprise, who makes a surprise appearance in 10.2 all of a sudden.

Does it being Earthen even matter? They are being turned into Dwarves. The book literally says that.

Yeah, it's the current expansion, because 11.0 is going to be a sequel.

What clues? What pets? The gryphon mount references Elementals how?

Not 100% sure on it being a Void Expansion or an Anti-Order expansion (depends on the Odyn cutscene in 10.2/Tyr resolution), but it definetely won't be an Elemental expansion (especially when we already had one).

[Necropally]

How would they explain a full world revamp again?

[username993720]

it triggers me when people compare two skeletons from different animations and say they're the same

if you see any similarities between the dracthry and the worgen, you'd better go to the ophthalmologist and have your vision tested - you might have cararacts!

People have tried to say their rig is the worgen rig because they have similar animations, but they are completely unique animation sets (outside of visage).

Worgen Skeleton isn't similar to Dracthyr in any way.

It is similar to the female Worgen one.
Besides, they turn into humans and vice versa like Worgen.

[KayRule]

Earthen, not Dwarves.

You keep saying this like it means anything. The titans in the text refer to actual dwarves as Earthen as well. That is what they call them. They literally refer to "the Earthen" who left Uldaman who call themselves "dwarves".

You've been hung up on this for pages and pages and I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

[Chickat]

Share the copium brother, our people needs it

Yeah I'm pretty sure we are done but the expansion does sound potentially interesting. Its definitely by 12.0 though. With Ions comment and the assets it has to be one of the next couple expansions.

[KayRule]

it triggers me when people compare two skeletons from different animations and say they're the same

if you see any similarities between the dracthry and the worgen, you'd better go to the ophthalmologist and have your vision tested - you might have cararacts!

This same thread spent weeks thinking an AI generated orc that had horns and long ears was supposed to be Fyrakk.

[justwatching]

Something that was pointed out on Scrolls of Lore discord, I think assuming Avaloren is actually a mistake. And if that's the case, it very well could still be a world revamp, or just an expansion in the old world, or underground in the old world.

Khaz Algar is similar to Khaz Modan. Which is, Mountains of Khaz. Which is named that way in honor of the Titan, Khazgorath. If Avaloren is anti-titan, it seems unlikely to have a place named in honor of the titans.

In addition, Khaz Modan wasn't named until AFTER the Earthen woke up. Which was post Sundering. The curse of flesh didn't really change Earthen/Dwarves until the Dwarves woke up post WotA.

The timing involved for Avaloren doesn't really fit.

This makes a lot of sense.

[Holdodlig]

If we're ever going to have a new race on a titan themed expansion, I have high doubts on earthen dwarves. They'd at best be a new custom or bodytype for the current dwarves. I think we are more likely going to see a whole new race becoming playable or some good ol' resized vrykuls (maybe they'll finally use Azotha ?) who weren't afflicted by the curse of flesh ?

[KayRule]

The report is how these Earthen were afflicted by the Curse of Flesh, just how it didn't physically change them in the same way as the other Earthen. They're not immune or not afflicted, they just "weathered" it differently than the other Earthen from Uldaman.

[Samin]

How would they explain a full world revamp again?

It's been 15+ years (maybe 20, I don't think the DF timeskip has been specified?). That's enough time for a lot of things to have happened in the world that is currently still stuck just after the Cataclysm.

[huth]

The books which hinted at Avaloren/Khaz Algar literally have Odyn desperately trying to find the places, so much so that he is sending suicide expeditions out just on the off-chance that he might find the "heretics". And what a surprise, who makes a surprise appearance in 10.2 all of a sudden.

Does it being Earthen even matter? They are being turned into Dwarves. The book literally says that.

You're mixing up the books.
The Khaz Algar book says the Earthen turning into something behaviourally similar but physiologically distinct from Dwarves.

The Avaloren book has the Odyn-loyal Keepers trying and failing to get to Avaloren with very little other information about it.

They're not the same book and not the same story.

- - - Updated - - -

You keep saying this like it means anything. The titans in the text refer to actual dwarves as Earthen as well. That is what they call them. They literally refer to "the Earthen" who left Uldaman who call themselves "dwarves".

You've been hung up on this for pages and pages and I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

But the Keepers also specify that the Earthen of Khaz Algan are specificially not Dwarfes.

[Catastrophy349]

You're mixing up the books.
The Khaz Algar book says the Earthen turning into something behaviourally similar but physiologically distinct from Dwarves.

The Avaloren book has the Odyn-loyal Keepers trying and failing to get to Avaloren with very little other information about it.

They're not the same book and not the same story.

- - - Updated - - -



But the Keepers also specify that the Earthen of Khaz Algan are specificially not Dwarfes.

Congrats on the 15 years!