Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Dracullus]

I think a lot of us are genuinely worried about the game, which makes leak season less fun this time around.

Oh yeah, cause vibes in community late SL were fantastic xD. But why I compare to worst, we literally live in best period in WoW in long time, if they fuck up 11.0 it will be remembered with nostalgia. We always have people like you that say everything is shit and threat to leave game every 5 minutes.

[Cheezits]

Oh yeah, cause vibes in community late SL were fantastic xD. But why I compare to worst, we literally live in best period in WoW in long time, if they fuck up 11.0 it will be remembered with nostalgia. We always have people like you that say everything is shit and threat to leave game every 5 minutes.

I'd argue vibes are a little worse than they were at the end of SL. We knew SL was cut short, but we didn't know why, so there were higher hopes.

DF delivered in some aspects but it wasn't the WoW 2.0 a lot of people hoped for after BFA and SL made so many people mad. And now we're getting yet ANOTHER shorter expansion, and we don't know why. The idea that we are getting maybe ANOTHER WoW expansion that's short, with no factions or connection to the wider overall Azeroth, isn't a great feeling.

There is absolutely a possibility that we just get endless Dragonflights from this point. 3 raids, no factions, no old world. Little heritage quests every now and then to bait old fans into thinking the races matter and will get more plot some day, at a glacial pace.

[Ferlion]

I'd argue vibes are a little worse than they were at the end of SL. We knew SL was cut short, but we didn't know why, so there were higher hopes.

DF delivered in some aspects but it wasn't the WoW 2.0 a lot of people hoped for after BFA and SL made so many people mad. And now we're getting yet ANOTHER shorter expansion, and we don't know why. The idea that we are getting maybe ANOTHER WoW expansion that's short, with no factions or connection to the wider overall Azeroth, isn't a great feeling.

There is absolutely a possibility that we just get endless Dragonflights from this point. 3 raids, no factions, no old world.

Here's the thing with the short expansion mindset.

It ultimately doesn't matter. That is to say, there is absolutely something to be said about factions and the Old World. Those are both core parts of the franchise, and they are ones that I don't think Blizzard is going to abandon. Though I do think the days of faction war are over for good. Sadly, the population imbalance was allowed to go on until it was an actual detriment to the game.

But "shorter expansions" and only 3 raids?

I think as long as it gives us the content cadence of Dragonflight, that's only a good thing. We can argue all day about the quality of that, and I absolutely agree that Blizzard needs to expand it's overworld content and patch events. "Farm Rares" worked in MoP and is very much in need of a refresh.

But the whole idea of the expansion being short? As long as it ultimately gives us more content faster, that's only a good thing. And even if we have to have a end patch where we get to do all the expansions raids over again as a cycle, thats... honestly fine?

Like, one of the major complaints since ever was raids were one and done and loss relevance. Getting to go back, do multiple raids week after week instead of the same one months on end. I admit having a 4th raid could be fun, but we've had larger raids overall recently as well. No more three boss raids, or six boss raids.

3 raids but a content speed we used to have? That's brutal. But that isn't the case.

[Oatmeel]

I don't like this leak, but it posits an interesting question:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...es-of-Avaloren

What if the "Heretics" of Avaloren are actually other Keepers/Titanforged?

I thought this was pretty implicitly the case. A contingent of Keepers/Titanforged rebelled against Odyn and set up shop somewhere so well-defended that Watcher Perethales suggested they stop wasting resources and let them inevitably kill each other. Which they presumably haven’t.

Odyn’s inability to put down a rebellion from amongst his own probably remains a real sore spot, one that would get even worse if say, a newly resurrected Tyr were to sympathize more with their cause than Odyn’s hardline “the Titans must be seen as infallible” outlook. Titanforged civil war is very much on the horizon IMHO.

[Revamp Man]

New fake leak has made me think
What if the heretic stone forged are actually tortollans

Perfect timing for turtle shenanigans and an AR with the panda skeleton

[Cheezits]

But the whole idea of the expansion being short? As long as it ultimately gives us more content faster, that's only a good thing. And even if we have to have a end patch where we get to do all the expansions raids over again as a cycle, thats... honestly fine?

Like, one of the major complaints since ever was raids were one and done and loss relevance. Getting to go back, do multiple raids week after week instead of the same one months on end. I admit having a 4th raid could be fun, but we've had larger raids overall recently as well. No more three boss raids, or six boss raids.

3 raids but a content speed we used to have? That's brutal. But that isn't the case.

It's the least of my complaints, and I do like the DF content cadence. But I think it's rough in the overall stretch, as long as we aren't getting more gameplay modes. And it's absolutely symbolic of less focus on WoW by Blizzard overall.

No factions and no old world updates are the biggest issues to me. I have a feeling the Reclamation of Gilneas will be 10.2.5, but if it doesn't amount to anything for 3-4 IRL years, who cares?

[Ersula]

I don't like this leak, but it posits an interesting question:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...es-of-Avaloren

What if the "Heretics" of Avaloren are actually other Keepers/Titanforged?

I would say that's very likely. Its hard to tell when these reports were written. The Khaz Algar one is contextually after the Sundering but a lot of these could have been reported at any time. It could be Loken's rebellion itself, but who wants to bet, given Odyn's inclination for lying, that what happened to Innaria might be unrelated: And Odyn was actually sending troops to attack Helya in the brief amount of time after she trapped him in the Halls of Valor, but before she created Helheim for herself.

It also makes me think that other plains of existence (that are neither the shadowlands or the dream) like the Halls of Valor, Thros, the elemental planes & Helheim are actually like the Dragon Isles: Originally a region of Azeroth but hidden away in a pocket dimension prison with Titan technology. If they were all unlocked at the same time, returning them to Azeroth, it would be a cataclysmic event somewhere between the Cataclysm & the Sundering.

I thought the Harbinger itself might cause untold damage to the planet, but destroying the Titan's protections alone might irrevocably change the planet.

[towelliee]

This is what I don't get, I think a hollow earth type setting would work for underground but not underground at the same time. It would give the open space feel and with the improvement of moving sky box they had in DF to make everything feel more alive I think it would work

Its almost like we have to change the way we get around

[Ebonn]

I thought this was pretty implicitly the case. A contingent of Keepers/Titanforged rebelled against Odyn and set up shop somewhere so well-defended that Watcher Perethales suggested they stop wasting resources and let them inevitably kill each other. Which they presumably haven’t.

Odyn’s inability to put down a rebellion from amongst his own probably remains a real sore spot, one that would get even worse if say, a newly resurrected Tyr were to sympathize more with their cause than Odyn’s hardline “the Titans must be seen as infallible” outlook. Titanforged civil war is very much on the horizon IMHO.

I agree with you here. Although, just now reading over those lore books again, it is POSSIBLE that they are talking about the Earthen that departed and developed similarly to our known Dwarves, and possible they’re something like Vrykul. The Vrykul also came from Titanforged beings, right? And they tend to have a very aggressive and competitive nature, something Paratheles mentions as well - their aggressive nature likely leading to civil war amongst their own which would finish the need to send a fourth expedition. Or at least he hoped. Lol.

Either way, I’m interested in this. Alternate Titan lore than the stuff that’s been given to us since the beginning, that could be juicy! Or, it could also turn out drab. Hopefully the former lol.

[NikolaiShade]

There is absolutely a possibility that we just get endless Dragonflights from this point. 3 raids, no factions, no old world. Little heritage quests every now and then to bait old fans into thinking the races matter and will get more plot some day, at a glacial pace.

About the old world thing, I'd say we pretty much outpaced the old world threats pretty fast, just in Vanilla we defeated gods, demigods and unthinkble horrors, so looking for enemies somewhere else is only logical. About the factions, honestly after BfA it was obvious we wouldn't get more faction war stories (and let's be honest a faction wars in a theme park mmo is pointles, you will never get a clear winner). About the stories at a glacial pace I agree with you, or they make them bigger or add more quests, still waiting personally for the retaking of Gilneas quest, and that could be even made cross faction

[Revamp Man]

I'd argue vibes are a little worse than they were at the end of SL. We knew SL was cut short, but we didn't know why, so there were higher hopes.

DF delivered in some aspects but it wasn't the WoW 2.0 a lot of people hoped for after BFA and SL made so many people mad. And now we're getting yet ANOTHER shorter expansion, and we don't know why. The idea that we are getting maybe ANOTHER WoW expansion that's short, with no factions or connection to the wider overall Azeroth, isn't a great feeling.

There is absolutely a possibility that we just get endless Dragonflights from this point. 3 raids, no factions, no old world. Little heritage quests every now and then to bait old fans into thinking the races matter and will get more plot some day, at a glacial pace.

Can't blame the game for people setting their expectations on something way too high

As for why DF is getting cut short if it is I can think of 2 natural disasters and at least one corporate one that could be causes

If you want to be pessimistic then ok but don't frame it as a majority opinion.

DF solved the main problems with the game since WoD and fated season is a great way to not waste old content along with the fact every little patch gives story or catch up so unlike the past you can play alts without feeling like you have to spend weeks catching up

[Ferlion]

It's the least of my complaints, and I do like the DF content cadence. But I think it's rough in the overall stretch, as long as we aren't getting more gameplay modes. And it's absolutely symbolic of less focus on WoW by Blizzard overall.

No factions and no old world updates are the biggest issues to me. I have a feeling the Reclamation of Gilneas will be 10.2.5, but if it doesn't amount to anything for 3-4 IRL years, who cares?

I do think we need to return to the old world. We need to spend time on the foundations of the setting, updating the world.

That is coming. IT absolutely is coming. We know it's coming because Blizzard is very deliberately setting the world up to be a reflection of the end of WC3-TFT.

Stormwind is missing it's king, and a trusted Paladin advisor is in control.
Night Elves are dealing with the loss of their old home and moving to a new world tree.
Forsaken are settling in and trying to find themselves in a world that distrusts them after breaking free from a leader bent on destroying the world.
The Orcs are back to looking towards the past and honoring the old ways.
Even the Dwarves are, in some form, staring down the barrel of crisis of the throne, as a new and untested leader who is Dark Iron by blood readies to take the throne.

Nearly beat for beat, the world is being placed back into the position where a "And here's where the story stands now" expansion is mandatory.

[towelliee]

Not a single leak post has been right

[Ferlion]

Not a single leak post has been right

I don't expect a leak to be right until a week or two before Blizzcon.

Except for Shadow of Azeroth. It's definitely that. totally. 100%.

[Cheezits]

Not a single leak post has been right

We need Wrath of the Magni to leak.

[Eeram]

Not a single leak post has been right

Yes because Towelliee has inside knowledge about these things lol

[Cheezits]

I do think we need to return to the old world. We need to spend time on the foundations of the setting, updating the world.

That is coming. IT absolutely is coming. We know it's coming because Blizzard is very deliberately setting the world up to be a reflection of the end of WC3-TFT.

Stormwind is missing it's king, and a trusted Paladin advisor is in control.
Night Elves are dealing with the loss of their old home and moving to a new world tree.
Forsaken are settling in and trying to find themselves in a world that distrusts them after breaking free from a leader bent on destroying the world.
The Orcs are back to looking towards the past and honoring the old ways.
Even the Dwarves are, in some form, staring down the barrel of crisis of the throne, as a new and untested leader who is Dark Iron by blood readies to take the throne.

Nearly beat for beat, the world is being placed back into the position where a "And here's where the story stands now" expansion is mandatory.

And how do those plot beats matter if they are never followed up on? If we are constantly getting Shadowlands and Dragonflights then there is no reason to believe we are getting any expansion that tackles these themes at once. At best, we get more islands that inch by inch advance these plots, but never capitalize on them.

[Sydrache]

Not a single leak post has been right

Shut up and go fill your face on stream more lol. You don't know anything

[NikolaiShade]

Stormwind is missing it's king, and a trusted Paladin advisor is in control

I was drinking some coke and spit it all over my desk LOL. You are one heck of a comedian my friend

[Ferlion]

And how do those plot beats matter if they are never followed up on?

I mean, at this point Ion has actively said they are going to do a world revamp. It doesn't mean it's next expansion, but it does mean it's coming.