Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

I have serious doubts that if there is a Revamp it would be a serious one. Just too many elements going atm that just leads me to believe that people are overhyping it.

I'm just saying that people will most likely find themselves in a lite-Revamp expansion with lots of stupid massive other narrative stuff going on and not an actual Revamp expansion like people want.

I'm not expecting a full Cata 2 but a graphical revamp with new quests in old zones sounds likely. I can't see all these redone assets being used solely for Avaloren or something.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I'm pretty much of the belief that recent expansions (aside from maybe Shadowlands) have largely been built with the revamp in mind. Especially BfA and DF. There are just so many natural biomes that you find on EK and KA. For example, the jungles of Zandalar can be re-used for Stranglethorn Vale.

As much as I honestly want a world revamp, I have some trouble believing it. Perhaps I'm simply cynical about the amount of effort Blizzard is willing to put in for minimal payout, but it does feel like this long-promised development on the world revamp expansion is a tad optimistic, and that the likelihood of Blizzard pursuing a project like that is somewhat mild. If it does come to be revealed that Blizzard really has been preparing for a massive 20th anniversary world revamp all along, mind you, I would be quite happy, but I feel like you're putting a tad too much stock into fairly circumstantial evidence that can be explained away in other ways.

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They can revamp any part of old world into 70-80 continent, would cost exactly same resources as regular expac.

If it were specifically a single region, I'd hope for Lordaeron for two reasons—firstly, because it's a good setting for a variety of hanging plotlines that were abandoned after BfA, and secondly, because it is probably the last opportunity Blizzard will ever have to introduce a Necromancer class to the game. Although I am cynical about its prospects due to the few niches left that it could occupy and the thematic uncertainty of it, justification for a Necromancer class would be enough for me.

I will say that a single region revamp also does feel far more likely than a global revamp—it would make sense to return to Lordaeron now that we're running out of landmasses.

[Cheezits]

Just based on the assets being redone, everything is pointing towards a redone EK before Kalimdor. However there are a good amount of updated Nelf assets that would pad out many territories on Kalimdor.

But there aren't a lot of Orc, Tauren, Goblin, Draenei and Darkspear assets being retooled at the moment. Meanwhile we just got a Dwarf tank following most Human assets being redone, an updated Tirisfal and Forsaken government (Gnomes too), multiple updates to Blood Elf assets (even in this expansion: see the Reliquary items) and more.

[Alanar]

Just based on the assets being redone, everything is pointing towards a redone EK before Kalimdor. However there are a good amount of updated Nelf assets that would pad out many territories on Kalimdor.

But there aren't a lot of Orc, Tauren, Goblin, Draenei and Darkspear assets being retooled at the moment. Meanwhile we just got a Dwarf tank following most Human assets being redone, an updated Tirisfal and Forsaken government, multiple updates to Blood Elf assets (even in this expansion: see the Reliquary items) and more.

To me it just seems like stuff that needed to be updated anyway. Remember when we got a few new hd human buildings, how everyone freaked out.

For what reason? World revamp hasnt happen for 2 expansions in a row. Oke well maybe next one then lol.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I really recommend people to keep their expectation in check. This next expansion with everything going on so far looks to be a chaotic one rather than anything simple like just a Revamp expansion. There are so many plot elements and 10.1 just took a nosedive in narrative progression.

I'd advice strongly to recognize that this next expansion may either be a follow-up, have several themes involved while revamp may be a part of it its just a minor thing and or something completely different altogether.

Based on the comments of the devs about Green and Bronze and we're already a emeralddreamoutdoor. It just feels like Iridikron and the gang may be moved into the next expansion. But yeah, I have a hard time believing in a full blown out Revamp with EK and Kalimdor storylines and content. It just does seem hyper unlikely at the current.

[Alanar]

I have serious doubts that if there is a Revamp it would be a serious one. Just too many elements going atm that just leads me to believe that people are overhyping it.

I'm just saying that people will most likely find themselves in a lite-Revamp expansion with lots of stupid massive other narrative stuff going on and not an actual Revamp expansion like people want.

Pretty much exactly what I though. We got to a point that every bush or hd tree update had people come in and shouting world revamp.

[Cheezits]

To me it just seems like stuff that needed to be updated anyway. Remember when we got a few new hd human buildings, how everyone freaked out.

For what reason? World revamp hasnt happen for 2 expansions in a row. Oke well maybe next one then lol.

But it's not being put into live. Why update it if you won't use it?

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I really recommend people to keep their expectation in check. This next expansion with everything going on so far looks to be a chaotic one rather than anything simple like just a Revamp expansion. There are so many plot elements and 10.1 just took a nosedive in narrative progression.

I'd advice strongly to recognize that this next expansion may either be a follow-up, have several themes involved while revamp may be a part of it its just a minor thing and or something completely different altogether.

Based on the comments of the devs about Green and Bronze and we're already a emeralddreamoutdoor. It just feels like Iridikron and the gang may be moved into the next expansion. But yeah, I have a hard time believing in a full blown out Revamp with EK and Kalimdor storylines and content. It just does seem hyper unlikely at the current.

ED is very likely this expansion as a patch, after SL they aren't going to do a full expansion of it and the Dragons have heavy connections to life/spirit (and Ysera questline/empty space next to Oharan means it will have something to do with this expansion). Iridikron may live but I think the villain that gets away will be Nozdormu, who can be involved with anything on Azeroth.

[Holdodlig]

Just based on the assets being redone, everything is pointing towards a redone EK before Kalimdor. However there are a good amount of updated Nelf assets that would pad out many territories on Kalimdor.

But there aren't a lot of Orc, Tauren, Goblin, Draenei and Darkspear assets being retooled at the moment. Meanwhile we just got a Dwarf tank following most Human assets being redone, an updated Tirisfal and Forsaken government, multiple updates to Blood Elf assets (even in this expansion: see the Reliquary items) and more.

Don't forget that most NE assets were redone with Legion and are still of good quality to get used in a potential revamp. With all the assets of the revamped Warsong BG from BFA you can also remake half of Kalimdor. You just need to change the color of the leafs and that's it.

A big indicator for a confirmed revamp would be an AV revamp tho.

The only thing that makes me reconsider a revamp right now is trading post. So many possible rewards that are being thrown into that features makes me wonder if they'll actually revamp or if they've decided to move on something else.

[Alanar]

But it's not being put into live. Why update it if you won't use it?

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ED is very likely this expansion as a patch, after SL they aren't going to do a full expansion of it and the Dragons have heavy connections to life/spirit (and Ysera questline/empty space next to Oharan means it will have something to do with this expansion). Iridikron may live but I think the villain that gets away will be Nozdormu, who can be involved with anything on Azeroth.

What exactly is not being put in?

[Cheezits]

What exactly is not being put in?

The HD human houses that have been in the files for two(?) expansions now have not been put on live, anywhere. So if it's just "updating things to update them" then why haven't they been put into the game for multiple years?

The most likely answer is that they will all be deployed together in an upcoming patch or expansion.

[Alanar]

The HD human houses that have been in the files for two(?) expansions now have not been put on live, anywhere. So if it's just "updating things to update them" then why haven't they been put into the game for multiple years?

The most likely answer is that they will all be deployed together in an upcoming patch or expansion.

Ye, I think so to. It's very likely they will be using that in future patches for sure. I mean don't get me wrong I would love a revamp of EK/kalimdor with updated lore and everything, but nothing really jumps out for me then just updates because the some of the models were from 2004.

the HD uther tomb was odd tho.. I though SL had something to do with it.. or I simply missed the quest associated with it?

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I mean eventually we are going to run out of places to go so revamping old world may be necessary. I am not certain how the playerbase/fanbase will react to that though.

It would defo be some kind of cata 2.0, but honestly the world map bugs me alot.. some places are still not flyable and we are still missing some island that could be cool to add along the updated continent.

Especially the location of the Maelstrom and Nazjatar.

[guro-tchai]

Given the several natures we've seen ascribed to the Void, I think his interpretation that the Void is more a cosmic representation of potential than nothingness is sensible—the Curse of Flesh imparted free will on the Titans' creations, a quality which inherently exponentially increases the number of possibilities per instance of itself, and we've all had the "LE ENDLESS POSUHBILITIES!!!!!one!!1" shoved down our throats so much we want to vomit purple, star-specked ichor into the faces of the writers. I think this might actually tie into other elements of the Void, however—namely, their desire to supplant the Titans. I've considered that the Void Lords may actually be almost cosmic embodiments of opportunity costs, a metaphysical "shadow" of everything that exists representing everything that could exist in its place.

agreed on that interpretation, and that's one way of reinventing the Black Empire - it's literal, absolute freedom.

it could simply be the un-logic of the Void supplanting the solid "is" and "isn't" logic

it's imagination, given form. on a meta level, it's speculation, crushed by the imposition of canon of those who shaped this world.

This sort of reconstructs the role of the Light, too—instead of just representing some other kind of small-o order than the Titans do, which is what has generally been taken from their limiting of possibilities and their theme of stagnancy in excess, perhaps the Light represents the world of the verifiable "Is" and "Isn't"?

maybe i just don't get your point, but still - dissent.
consider the Chronicles cosmic map and compare it to the reframed Grimoire cosmic map. not the details, just the position and shades. while in the former it could be divided in two by a sw-ne diagonal line, showing the good-evil divide, in the latter it's a bit different. the good-evil divide is represented in shading, but the top/bottom parts can also be divided in two camps: Law and Chaos.
for the Order, it's laws of physics, established norms of functioning of the universe; for the Death it's the law of end itself - nothing is eternal; Light is the moral law, imo. "is, was and ought".
for the Void, it's the potential for anything to be true, including something immoral, harmful, not sane in a literal way. the Order can't understand it - and the Light hates it. for the Life, it's the potential of everything to be born and spread. for the Fel, it's the potential to be free and sovereign, which is why they couldn't do anything before a depressed being of Order organized this every-man-a-king army. "could exist, could grow, could do"
if always seemed strange for me why a Void Curse of Flesh turned an Order being into a Life one, but it makes sense if the Curse was a shift toward Chaos lato sensu, weakening the Law side.

That manifesting in the Light exerting dogma by strictly defining everything that is and isn't, and making efforts to spread itself by further setting such boundaries. The conflict between the Light and Void, then, is the conflict between the strictly-defined and the undefined and things which could have been that never came to be due to their potential existence being supplanted by the thing that came to exist instead of them when what is and isn't became defined. The closest comparison, I suppose, is that the Void is like quantum uncertainty and the Light is wave function collapse or measurement.

i will need another coffee, some nicotine candy and a couple more IQ SDs to understand that.

The Void is specifically targeting Azeroth because I think she, as a Titan and being of Order, represents Order in the capacity of conquest—not just the conquest of Order, but rather Order as conquest.

cf. d3, evil can't win disjointed. an Order being, a Law being, fills the role a Chaotic force can't play - organizing to fuel the spread.

but that's one interpretation. i think she's a 7th force, a stem cell, and titans consider her to be one of them because they don't find markers of other forces in her yet. she's sought by all because she's a literal god, which will win against all others.

[Cheezits]

Ye, I think so to. It's very likely they will be using that in future patches for sure. I mean don't get me wrong I would love a revamp of EK/kalimdor with updated lore and everything, but nothing really jumps out for me then just updates because the some of the models were from 2004.

the HD uther tomb was odd tho.. I though SL had something to do with it.. or I simply missed the quest

I think the sticking point is that the models aren't being shipped to live. If it was just graphical touch-ups there would be no harm in replacing the models in the overworld as they are finished. Instead it looks like a lot of human buildings will be redone in a single update, but it's not just human things now, we're starting to get dwarf and belf updates too. So unless the next expansion has a big EK-themed area, it seems likely there will be an update to EK areas.

The Uther tomb was apparently a pet project of an art team member and didn't actually have anything to do with SL.

[Fahrad Wagner]

What exactly is not being put in?

HD Human houses and inns, BE and NE boats, loads of NE assets from Darkshore (Auberdine village for example), Alliance flying gunship, now updated IF guard armor, HD scarlet crusade armor, new Forsaken and IF tabards, the list goes on.

Anything armor-related could easily be some Trading Post reward, but as for other assets, I don't know, it's a little on the nose. Also aside from SL they've slowly revamped every old models from the old world, and everytime a new expansion comes out it involves some of those old models and update them (like centaurs and gnolls in the Dragon Isles). Like having gnolls there doesn't make any particular sense in a lore perspective, but it does make a lot of sense if the model was revamped in order to be used later on (just like hurrans in Kul Tiras for example).

I'm not saying we're getting a world revamp... but there is a significant amount of old assets being updated, many of which are not being used. I guess we'll see!

[Makabreska]

Interesting thing to have a final boss of 10.1 maybe not a no-name, but definitely a less important/known lore character, especially when penultimate boss is echo of Neltharion.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Interesting thing to have a final boss of 10.1 maybe not a no-name, but definitely a less important/known lore character, especially when penultimate boss is echo of Neltharion.

The echo of Neltharion is a big surprise to me, but I aint complaining. Its one of those "Cool boss" ideas.

[Cheezits]

Interesting thing to have a final boss of 10.1 maybe not a no-name, but definitely a less important/known lore character, especially when penultimate boss is echo of Neltharion.

I think they've done something before in the past: if the final boss isn't a huge lore figure, then the penultimate boss is.

Kind of nice that it's an OC to beef up the Dracthyr lore. And a Void Dracthyr is a more creative fight than Deathwing again (or Fyrakk in his drake form, tho his humanoid form would be a cool boss).

Regarding Fyrakk (spoilers) I think there is a decent chance that Wrathion, Ebyssian and Nefarian kill him. The last campaign quest is named "A Fire, Extinguished" https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/71651-zaralek-cavern-campaign-chapter-names-in-patch-101

[Throren]

based on the textures for this new HD Ironforge guard armour, it looks like it'll come in two colours, Silver and gold


Likewise that new Ironforge shield has two variants, a Red trimmed and a gold trimmed

[Revamp Man]

i
am
so
tired
of
raiden
monk
sets

seriously how can 10.0 mummy shredder be better than what is supposed to be the black dragon tier
give me a set that shows off dragon scales but noooo we get the 4th set with that stupid helm

[Raetary]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._drake_models/

Old drake mounts have Dragonriding animations.