Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Viridiel]

On the Nature of the Dream

1
I have spent ages here within the Emerald Dream, exploring its reaches and basking in its tranquillity. Yet the more I experience, the more what I perceive seems to be at odds with lessons taught to us by the titan keepers.
Thus I am compelled to share my feelings here. Not to stir discontent, or to claim my theories are immutable truths, but to encourage others to ponder these subjects for themselves.

2
It has been said that the dream was created by Keeper Freya, acting on behalf of her patron, Eonar. And yet, I have noticed that the titans' acolytes do not speak of something as "finished" until it has been ordered.
So did they truly create the Dream, or merely discover it, seeing its vibrancy as chaos to which they were compelled to bring structure?

3
Seeking an answer, I have spoken to many spirits who inhabit the Dream. Dryads, ancients, grove keepers, and others. None of them tell of a titan creating the Dream.
Instead, they speak of the first spirits awakening long ago within its wilds, in lands as beautiful and free as they are today.
(Though I wonder, since time has so little meaning here, whether those born of the Dream truly think in terms of past or present)

4
We have also been told that the Dream is a sort of framework for life on Azeroth. And it is true that we can see reflections of our world within the Dream.
Yet while it is clear that these realms share a bond, is one a copy of the other? Or might both be reflections, each informing the shape of its counterpart?

5
Many times I have shrugged off the call of sleep and taken wing to explore the distant reaches of the Dream. The farther I flew, the greater the wonders I beheld.
Life took forms strange and unfamiliar. Bizarre, impossible plants and trees. Creatures unlike any I beheld before.
Perhaps the Dream is bound not only to Azeroth, but to realms not yet discovered. Is it a reflection of those places, too?

6
At these far reaches, I felt the presence of entities whose power seemed vast and unknowable, akin to the titans themselves.
Had I reached the edges of the Dream where it flows into the Realms of Life? Are they one and the same? Truly, I cannot say, for as waves of joy and contentment washed over me, I could no longer resist the call of sleep.
I awoke back at the Eye of Ysera, wondering if I had experienced a dream within the Dream.

7
It seems clear that the servants of the titans wish the Dream to stay unchanging--at least, unchanged by any hand but theirs.
Yet the very nature of life is one of change, is it not? Things are born, live, and die, but life itself goes on.
Perhaps life was never meant to be ordered. To be static and unchanging.

8
The titans' servants do not seem to understand that Life and Death are sisters, bound together in a Great Cycle.
Do they not wish to see this truth? Or is it beyond their fundamental nature to perceive it?
If we dragons see it, then it can only mean that we are touched not just by Life and Order, but other forces as well.

9
And if dragons are the product of powers great and small being eternally intertwined, then so must all mortals be.
Perhaps Azeroth herself was touched by all these forces. Or could she be their true source?
Some things are beyond knowing. Some things are only to be pondered... in dreams.

[Cheezits]

Multiple Dreams confirmed. "Emerald Dream" = Veil of Life + Titan Ordering.

[Marlamin]

We have also been told that the Dream is a sort of framework for life on Azeroth. And it is true that we can see reflections of our world within the Dream.
Yet while it is clear that these realms share a bond, is one a copy of the other? Or might both be reflections, each informing the shape of its counterpart?

I like this part, if I'm reading this right and correct me if I'm wrong, while previously it was hard set to "the Dream is what Azeroth would be untouched" which would frankly make it kind of boring, this now gives Blizz a lot of breathing space to go back in the future and let it be influenced either way as well as set a precedent of the zone going into the overworld.

[Thomir]

How many journals is Danuser going to write about how shitty the Titans are ... Dude won't stop.

[Ferlion]

I like this part, if I'm reading this right and correct me if I'm wrong, while previously it was hard set to "the Dream is what Azeroth would be untouched" which would frankly make it kind of boring, this now gives Blizz a lot of breathing space to go back in the future and let it be influenced ether way as well as set a precedent of the zone going into the overworld.

So..

IT now has to be asked. What do the Halls of Origination do then?

[lostsoup]

How many journals is Danuser going to write about how shitty the Titans are ... Dude won't stop.

But they're not shitty, they've done fantastic things for the inhabitans of Azeroth. They're just a bit more gray than previously shown, which is honestly a good thing.

[ro9ue]

One of the oracles in zereth mortis links the cosmic powers in trios; death, order and light (all very structured), then life, disorder and void (all about innovation, opportunity etc. Basically unrestricted).

I think this is a seed of what direction they want to go in with future villains, and a better, more nuanced direction for them to go in. Currently a lot of people view each separate cosmic force in terms of a hierarchy. There are void creatures, they report into Old Gods, who report into Void Lords. Instead, you can have entities that mix and match powers and are all over the map.

Reminds me of magic the gathering mana colors. You have "mono-colored" creatures and then 2 color and even 3 color and more.

In MTG:
Red - Goblin
Green - Elf
Red + Green = Gruul
Red + Green + Black = Jund

In WoW
Fel - Demon
Death - Zombie
Fel + Death - maybe a Dreadlord?
Arcane + Void + Light + Life - maybe Elune?

And similar to the color wheel, different NPCs are explaining them and grouping them in different ways. So sort of how primary and secondary colors are staggered is how the oracle is seeing death/order/light and life/fel/void. They've also shown in places like Halls of Origination that they are grouping order/life/light into the "constructive forces" and fel/death/void into the "destructive forces".

[Ferlion]

Hard resets the planet or a small part of the planet quickly?

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I agree with the Archimonde fan! This is pretty cool ngl!

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I'll stop posting videos, sorry!

I think that is definitely what the Titans intended for it. I'm not sure it's exactly what would have happened at this point. Seems like a bad idea.

But also.

Bit Azeroth is a first one vibes.

Perhaps Azeroth herself was touched by all these forces. Or could she be their true source?

Although.

I actually think at this point that Titans being creatures of Order is a lie that they themselves actually believe.

I think if each realm has a Pantheon of Titan like beings, then it stands to reason that "reality" would also have it's own Pantheon.

I'm thinking Order just got it's claws into the Titans, similar to how Death did with Argus.

[Xilurm]

I like this part, if I'm reading this right and correct me if I'm wrong, while previously it was hard set to "the Dream is what Azeroth would be untouched" which would frankly make it kind of boring, this now gives Blizz a lot of breathing space to go back in the future and let it be influenced either way as well as set a precedent of the zone going into the overworld.

So, if I understand this correctly, the realm of life has little pockets called dreams, and there's a pocket for every planet? And if you enter the dream and travel enough you can go to the actual plane of life?

[Izalla]

I mean, it is likely their "love" is just platonic, the same way girls love each other in a friendly manner. That's what I think of course.

History would remember them as roommates.

[Cheezits]

So, if I understand this correctly, the realm of life has little pockets called dreams, and there's a pocket for every planet? And if you enter the dream and travel enough you can go to the actual plane of life?

That's the implication I got. So while the Emerald Dream is messed with by the Titans, it's more like the Veil (see: Shadowlands Veil) of Life. The Titans just pinched off a piece, or settled into some kind of agreement with whoever runs it.

[Izalla]

I’m starting to believe that Fyrn is a tiny tree representing the new World tree.

This is the best idea you've had and is super cute. I want it to be true.

[Houle]

"At these far reaches, I felt the presence of entities whose power seemed vast and unknowable, akin to the titans themselves.
Had I reached the edges of the Dream where it flows into the Realms of Life? Are they one and the same? Truly, I cannot say, for as waves of joy and contentment washed over me, I could no longer resist the call of sleep.
I awoke back at the Eye of Ysera, wondering if I had experienced a dream within the Dream."

OOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOHOHOHOOOOO

YOOOO!!!!! I did say the Dream was either Elune's realm, or a realm that was fundamentally linked to Elune's realm or the greater Plane of Life!!! I am happy to know it was likely the latter!!!

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Ahahahaha!!!! I fucking love Blizzard!!!

"Shadowlands stuff is being retconned btw" "Post SL Blizzard is gonna change everything" Y'all are in the dirt!!! Screw that! Domain of Life confirmed!!!

Many people have been arguing about all this being possibilities for years dude. Calm down.

[Xilurm]

Maybe the First Ones poured their essence or whatever into Azeroth because they were about to die, and Azeroth is technically their "legacy" of sorts. If the First Ones also follow the rules of the "Legion across all timelines" (which they obviously do) then them only "blessing" our Azeroth would make sense as to why it's the only special Azeroth in all timelines and why all the others are doomed.

[Houle]

I actually theorized this if in case the Dream wasn't actually Elune's realm, I cannot believe that was fucking right lmaooo.

That confirms the Chronicle stuff was true, in that the "Shadowlands" and the "Emerald Dream" which are explored in said books are just the veils to their respective Cosmic Domains!

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Sure but not on my level. I got annoying with it.

Trust me, you are still annoying with it

Amirdrassil was the sixth tree after all. I had a feeling that was the case, but the problem was that there were only five known world trees.
https://www.wowhead.com/news/whisper...ialogue-322841

So that means he knew the future.

Now that is somewhat interesting. Whatever that "sleeping flame" could be. Azeroths world soul? If the tree grew underground, aka down instead of up, could "atop" in this case actually mean "below" it, which is where Azeroths world soul would sit. And its "sleeping" bc, well, world souls slumber and dream.

[Thomir]

But they're not shitty, they've done fantastic things for the inhabitans of Azeroth. They're just a bit more gray than previously shown, which is honestly a good thing.

But lately it's just been pure shit talking. No one acknowledges the good they've done for the universe. They're just portrayed as assholes in Dragonflight.

[Izalla]

Unlreated to this specific post, but a few days ago, you mentioned in passing the idea that the anomalous fissure associated with Khaz Algar could potentially be "Xal'atath's body".

I didn't pay much attention to the comments comparing the gryphon texture to Saronite colors, because I doubted Yogg was getting involved in anything anytime soon. But thinking about the idea of the fissure's effects makes me wonder.

The titan watchers seemed perplexed about both the nature of the fissure and why something so old and so far away would manifest similar effects to the Curse of Flesh. But actually it being related to Xal'atath answers a lot of questions. First: that we have no evidence of Xal'atath's previous existence. That is, Old Gods generally leave permanent effects on the land around them, even when killed or utterly destroyed. The Sha, Saronite/vapors, the dark, mysterious, ancient crystals in Silithus. It's strange if Xal was an Old God, that we don't see any lingering vestiges.

But the fissure could easily be to Xal'atath what the Well of Eternity was to Y'shaarj. A scar left behind where she once existed. That'd explain why the keepers have no knowledge of what it is, because she was dead and forgotten long before their creators ever arrived. It'd explain the effects of exposure to the fissure on Earthen; it's like the Curse of Flesh because it's exposure to Old God essence, but it's not the same Old God. It'd explain the land being seemingly permanently storm and monster cursed, because the land suffered permanent effects of her presence. And it'd explain why we see no traces of her, because she wasn't on our side of the planet.

Xal said she spent many years under the water with the naga right? If she originated there, the naga are likely responsible for her ending up on our side of the world.

[ro9ue]

That's the implication I got. So while the Emerald Dream is messed with by the Titans, it's more like the Veil (see: Shadowlands Veil) of Life. The Titans just pinched off a piece, or settled into some kind of agreement with whoever runs it.

I wonder if all of these realms were once one, but it was fractured somehow? Dream/life, Shadowlands/death, Voidlands(wherever void lords are, since its said they "arent in this world")... etc...and Azeroth is actually the nexus where they all meet? That's why everyone wants to conquer and control Azeroth, it's literally the gateway to all others or the "first" realm.

[Viridiel]

Where did you find the book btw? And can you post the pages?

I think it was here. The object has despawned now that I've looted it so I'm not certain


I can't be bothered posting all the pages, but here's a couple of the more interesting pages for proof:

[Xilurm]

Yeah, ok so. An "Emerald Dream" expansion is absolutely 100% possible now. It would be really cool if we used the dream as a way to enter the plane of life too.

PS: I don't mean the next expansion obviously.