Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Myrrh]

I really don't want to see them do another full planar expansion like Shadowlands ever again. It feels so detached and distant from the ideal fantasy adventure vibe of Warcraft.

A brief dungeon or raid? Or a zone like they're doing now? Totally fine.

I wonder if this new hint that the plane of life could extend out from the Dream might be an acknowledgement of this. Like, less weird interplanar other realm with a million portals and more... beyond the veil of something a little closer to home.

Like, we know they'll go down the cosmic realm path again sooner or later. But this new stuff could set the stage to make it a bit more palatable and connected to Azeroth. Shows a bit of reflection, maybe.

[KayRule]

With Metzen back in creative reigns, we will never be going to spend an entire expansion in horrendously stupid shit like the Life Lands ever again. If you luck out, maybe, maaaybe a raid or throwaway dungeon.

The fact that we have people actually asking for this speaks to just how stupid most of the WoW fanbase even is.

[Ferlion]

Lorderon was part of the original continent. If they're fleeing this pre-Sundering Kalimdor to another continent, it would not be any of the landmasses we've currently seen.

IIRC, it doesn't actually say Avaloren was it's own continent. It's a logical conclusion, but technically does not state a new continent.

Wreckage Analysis Report
Prime Designate,

I am writing to confirm that the wreckage discovered on our shores was indeed the remains of our most recent expedition to Avaloren. There were no survivors.

This marks the third failed attempt to reach that accursed place in the time since I assumed my post.

While I would not presume to question either your authority or your determination, I pray to the titans that the rumors I hear of a fourth expedition are mere speculation rather than fact.

Surely you can see that further pursuit of the heretics is folly. Yes, they must be made to answer for their crimes against Innaria and the other keepers, but their defenses are not to be underestimated.

The resources required to breach their lines are simply beyond our current capabilities. At least, not without jeopardizing containment of the prisoners in our charge.

Though I agree there is risk in allowing their strength to grow, evidence suggests that the aggressive nature of the heretics will cause them to turn on one another and weaken their resolve. If we can be patient, an opportunity for retribution will present itself.

I beseech you, Prime Designate, let the fire of your wrath cool, at least for now. Its embers will be rekindled in due time.

If not, I fear that I will soon be authoring yet another report of a lost expedition, its final remnants dashed upon rock and wave.

With all respect,

Watcher Perethales

We assume because of the mention of shores, but there were lakes and such that could account for that.

[Dismayxz]

It's just a dumbed down version of Arcane + the Titan's overall goal distilled into one word for normies.

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Or it's two gay women. Which explains why Elune has so many secret connections with Eonar, and apparently it wasn't cool with the Titans (because she's supposed to Order stuff, not Life stuff).

Lets also remember that the Planet she chose to hide on during Legion was also dubbed Elunaria, had Genesaur (which on Draenor were insanely invasive) on it. Green-tinted Storm Drakes, weirdly enough too. And the entire thing looked like a very life-centered Planet, yet according to the planting of this one tree, that would've had to be something she needed to hide from at least Aman'thul if not the entire remainder of the Pantheon. Or Elunaria became so life-filled after her Essence arrived there to hide.

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We'll get everything in due time, my friend! We'll get it in due time.

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Never compare this to that goofball named Pyromancer.

Yet it is very reminiscent of a lot of his ramblings. I don't like it either, but it seems he's at least been moving in the right-ish directions with his assumptions.

[Yus atath]

A feeling in me is that Avaloren = Ancient name for Lordaeron, and that Khaz Algar is underneath the subcontinent.

If Avaloren = Lordaeron then why is it so hard to reach according the books?

[Dismayxz]

With Metzen back in creative reigns, we will never be going to spend an entire expansion in horrendously stupid shit like the Life Lands ever again. If you luck out, maybe, maaaybe a raid or throwaway dungeon.

The fact that we have people actually asking for this speaks to just how stupid most of the WoW fanbase even is.

To be entirely fair, calling an entire portion of the fanbase stupid for not burning Cosmic Lore at the stake isn't exactly an unbiased or sane take. I didn't like Shadowlands either. Some level of cosmic has been part of the Game for quite some time (not talking about what Danuser wanted to appropiate into "quite some time"), I agree with not having to see too much of the big dick cosmic forces, but bringing them up, brushing them up or going there for an odd leveling zone instead of a small Dungeon or a one-tier Raid would be very preferable.

[Woggmer]

If Avaloren = Lordaeron then why is it so hard to reach according the books?

I don't know about the whole Avaloren = Lordaeron thing...

What if Avaloren is some Kingdom in the Sky? Like some Aesop's Fables type of fairytail domain built on top of clouds?

[KayRule]

IIRC, it doesn't actually say Avaloren was it's own continent. It's a logical conclusion, but technically does not state a new continent.

Wreckage Analysis Report
Prime Designate,

I am writing to confirm that the wreckage discovered on our shores was indeed the remains of our most recent expedition to Avaloren. There were no survivors.

This marks the third failed attempt to reach that accursed place in the time since I assumed my post.

While I would not presume to question either your authority or your determination, I pray to the titans that the rumors I hear of a fourth expedition are mere speculation rather than fact.

Surely you can see that further pursuit of the heretics is folly. Yes, they must be made to answer for their crimes against Innaria and the other keepers, but their defenses are not to be underestimated.

The resources required to breach their lines are simply beyond our current capabilities. At least, not without jeopardizing containment of the prisoners in our charge.

Though I agree there is risk in allowing their strength to grow, evidence suggests that the aggressive nature of the heretics will cause them to turn on one another and weaken their resolve. If we can be patient, an opportunity for retribution will present itself.

I beseech you, Prime Designate, let the fire of your wrath cool, at least for now. Its embers will be rekindled in due time.

If not, I fear that I will soon be authoring yet another report of a lost expedition, its final remnants dashed upon rock and wave.

With all respect,

Watcher Perethales

We assume because of the mention of shores, but there were lakes and such that could account for that.

They would not need to send expeditions for a lake in a zone we have gotten to actually as players do quests as a Titan Keeper in.

Also using your own brain, as a metatextual observer of the game world and not reading the text from a literal in-game perspective, we have others books in this expansion, across patches, seeding out other lands distant from Kalimdor with little Titan influence. They're doing this for a reason and not just to also have one be actually Lordearon.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

WoW:Lifelands.

[ro9ue]

Confirmed Cosmic Forces with Pantheons: Order (The Titans), Death (The Eternal Ones), Shadow (The Void Lords), and Life (Elune and co).

Cosmic Forces with an unknown leadership: Light (Likely is possible ngl) and Disorder (May not have a Pantheon tbh, but the Nether is still mostly unknown, so it is likely there may be one ngl).

Elune is a weird one. "Sister of the Winter Queen". As in opposite counterpart? Sure, that would be Life. What about sister as in adjacent? We have a ton of magic spells associated with her that use Arcane (moonkin Elune's Chosen and Scythe of Elune) and Light (moonlight). The Night Warrior blessing is definitely some dark void or death shit.

Xal'atath calls her an "upstart goddess" in adversarial/mocking tone. That means she rose to a higher status or climbed the god ranks in some way, likely pissing off a few other deities in the process. I bet Elune is a bit of a rebel who broke several norms/rules, getting her into trouble with the other gods. Because of her wide range of magical blessings, my guess is she experimented with other cosmic forces (even if she was originally a life goddess, she picked up some void, light or arcane). This combination made her much more powerful... and made her a lot of enemies.

I think we'll come to find out there was a conflict resulting in her being betrayed or subdued, and since we know she still blesses her followers occasionally, she's not dead. But we also know she was MIA during things like Teldrassil.

That tells me she's either a super gray character, she's indifferent, or she's busy.... she's trying to but can't. I think the Tears of Elune and The Sister's Tear suggest she's under some sort of duress, so wanting to help but unable is the correct answer. So she's trapped or imprisoned somewhere. All of her followers think the source of her power comes from the moon. Her symbol is the moon. I bet if we go there (11.3?), we'll find her sealed inside.

[Pyrophax]

I really don't want to see them do another full planar expansion like Shadowlands ever again. It feels so detached and distant from the ideal fantasy adventure vibe of Warcraft.

A brief dungeon or raid? Or a zone like they're doing now? Totally fine.

Yes, this 100 time. We dont need disaster as SL ever again. And I am not talking about gameplay or expansion as whole.
That idea of exploring realms different from ours, making Afterlife another continent at Azeroth. *spit*
Before expansion it was some unknown place that we interacted only briefly. Same should be sone with other planes and Zereths (despite my likings, its canon now).
Visit to talk with dead characters or Archon? Sure. Maybe dungeon akin Tazavesh is good too. But full expac? Hell no.
Imagine Gardens of Life expansion. It will be SL all over again. We should not have a full access of Universe "backgrounds" like that. It kill all excitement of it, any mistery that left in WoW.

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WoW:Lifelands.

Please no. After full patch in there. It like after Argus we come to Twisting Nether to fight demons again.

[ro9ue]

It's not that though. It's the way it's written.



"This is not Order!"

It's like a parody or something. It's so weird. He sounds so 1 dimensional.

And besides it doesn't even matter if he's right or wrong. The writers intent is for people to dislike him while obviously feeling sympathetic for Eonar.

Uhhhhhhhhhhh

that sounds a lot like....


Thus, Aman'Thul, the Highfather himself, reached down through Azeroth's skies and heaved the Old God from the surface of the world. At that moment, the massive bulk of the Old One was ripped apart, and its death rattle caused entire mountains to shatter and hundreds of titan-forged to be instantly obliterated where they stood.[8]

Aman'Thul had inadvertently ripped open a wound in Azeroth's surface, and the world-soul's arcane lifeblood flowed to the surface. It was then that the Pantheon realized that the Old Gods had entrenched themselves too deep to excise without destroying Azeroth itself, and instead they resolved to imprison the remaining three Old Gods rather than killing them outright.

[Dismayxz]

Moon dwarves are worming their way back into my brain with all of this "Underground Tree" thing. It's supposedly named after Elune, planted by Eonar, and received strange guardians that arrived at a later date. And we have what were they, Earthen (?), Leaving the Titan Keepers to go, what we presume is West, to then also evolve in a similar way to the curse of flesh.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Be prepared for a Chaoslands expac in the future as well, cause there's no way we've seen the Nether in any true extent yet.

Chaos orcs.

[Merryck]

Moon Dwarves can only mean Dwarf Druids, which I've been dreaming of for like a decade.

[Ferlion]

They would not need to send expeditions for a lake in a zone we have gotten to actually as players do quests as a Titan Keeper in.

Also using your own brain, as a metatextual observer of the game world and not reading the text from a literal in-game perspective, we have others books in this expansion, across patches, seeding out other lands distant from Kalimdor with little Titan influence. They're doing this for a reason and not just to also have one be actually Lordearon.

Which is precisely why I said earlier there are reasons that Avaloren/Lordearon don't fit.

I'm just saying overall, it's certainly possible that Avaloren was someplace on Kalimdor and the Titans were rejected. While it gets a bit iffy with timeframes, the Vykrul were already starting to turn against the Titans some 15,000 years ago. It's reasonable to think it happened with other groups.

Fortunately, we know that Avaloren predates that because Odyn was free and still Prime delegate according to the text Avaloren is introduced in. And again, as I said before, there's the "Tyrguard" thing not fitting with Heretics.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

But on a more serious note, I think back in legion, Helheim stuff did it right when it comes to visiting a mysterious place for a questline and not exploit it to the last inch that it doesn't feel like nothing anymore, like shadowlands did.

When they will be doing one of these very cosmic themes again, life or death or whatever they should look in that direction instead of the maw for example.

[ro9ue]

image

But on a more serious note, I think back in legion, Helheim stuff did it right when it comes to visiting a mysterious place for a questline and not exploit it to the last inch that it doesn't feel like nothing anymore, like shadowlands did.

When they will be doing one of these very cosmic themes, life or death whatever they should look in that direction instead of the maw for example.

Agree, even fine with something like Emerald Nightmare the raid. Just give us a snippet.

Setting up a town with mailboxes, banks and vendors in the realm of death just seems ridiculous to me. If we're there, it should feel somewhat uncomfortable and alien, and we don't want to be there long.

[Nymrohd]

We weren't in the Shadowlands for "long" tho. We were quite literally there to aid the covenants and stop the Jailer from remaking reality.

The main thing I did in Shadowlands was throw parties.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I mean, Hellheim was kinda explored, same with the Halls of Valor. And they weren't even Cosmic, like the Shadowlands. They were just separate, pocket realms akin to the Elemental Planes or so.

It was a small but smart dose of exploration that still kept stuff somewhat mysterious and wanting to explore it more in the future maybe if occasion happens.

It was tied to a questline that with right amount of time kept you interested while not exploiting the theme to the last bone.