Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Wangming]

Cool, it confirms again that there is a Realm of Life, aswell as their own version of Eternal Ones in it.



I'm still saying that all the Shadowlands lore would have been more liked if they had seeded it during Legion and BfA. The Nightmare Raid and Ursoc's death there could have given us a tease for Ardenweald, while the Maldraxxi could have appeared in a side quest on Argus, maybe even with a Drakka tease there.

So dumb question. What IS the dream good for? Because for a long time it was supposed to be where Cenarius and the Wild Gods went to be recuperate after they are killed on Azeroth. But that is not in Ardenweald. So is it just there for druids to sleep somewhere?

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At this point its rather clear that 11.0 will not be a void expansion of any sort. More likely its going to be taking place on a new continent surrounded by storms, alongside Avaloren and Khaz Algar playing secondary roles.

I bet there would be some void presence though. I mean how many expansion did not have an old god presence one way or another?

[Ersula]

The storms of the storming sea are obviously a byproduct of the eternal clash going on on the other side of the planet between cosmic Light and Void. The element closest to Light is Air, and Void, Water. Air + Water = Storms.

Or it was made by the Titans to segregate regions of the planet, ala the Dragon Isles, or it was crafted by the Avaloren Heretics, or hey, they're naturally occurring, like on Jupiter.

I've never seen any association between Light & Air/Storm in WoW.

Cool, it confirms again that there is a Realm of Life, aswell as their own version of Eternal Ones in it.

Unless they're trying to convey the Dream is what that is: The dream is the counterpart to the shadowlands in the cosmology chart. The chart shows the Shadowlands is not inside the "Death Sphere," It's outside of it. "Realms of Life" seem to be conceptual. We know there are Gods of Life, but they likely rule the Dream equivalent somewhere in space. And we incorrectly assume the Dream is unique to Azeroth because we can't space travel in it, but its actually an entire universe, like the Shadowlands.

So dumb question. What IS the dream good for? Because for a long time it was supposed to be where Cenarius and the Wild Gods went to be recuperate after they are killed on Azeroth. But that is not in Ardenweald. So is it just there for druids to sleep somewhere?

It was always described as a kind of back up for the titans. Like it's literal backup save they can use if the planet gets too corrupted. Which would have probably been what happened immediately after Algalon scoured the planet.

But with the Shadowlands lore it seems more like the Dream is meant to be like, a waiting room where anima is recycled from Ardenweald into new life before it passes into the material plane. And it was designed that way by the First Ones, the Titans just utilized it to its full potential; as Life without well maintained filters can get perverted with the weird invasive sentient plants of Draenor.

[Izalla]

At this point its rather clear that 11.0 will not be a void expansion of any sort. More likely its going to be taking place on a new continent surrounded by storms, alongside Avaloren and Khaz Algar playing secondary roles.

And Battle for Azeroth had no old god plotlines. Oh wait. You can't dismiss anything when the expansion hasn't even been announced yet, because we don't know anything about it yet. Literally nothing is clear about what won't be in it. We only have hits of a few things that will be.

[Murlocos]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the guard armor updates end up being Trading Post related. Armor and other collectible items don't seem very reliable as hints anymore.

[Alanar]

The Fifth Old God being wrapped up in vines/roots now makes a lot more sense IMO.

Its just with many of these things that were made years ago have suddenly a link to current stuff. I just dont buy it they had this in mind back then.

Same with the jailor, who suddenly was the guy who was behind alot of stuff.

[Cheezits]

So dumb question. What IS the dream good for? Because for a long time it was supposed to be where Cenarius and the Wild Gods went to be recuperate after they are killed on Azeroth. But that is not in Ardenweald. So is it just there for druids to sleep somewhere?

I think the Emerald Dream is special because of Titan meddling, meaning that Azeroth Wild Gods can use it to recuperate and attune themselves to nature. But when they completely die they go to Ardenweald like all nature creatures through space.

I remember at Shadowlands reveal they said that Cenarius went to Ardenweald.

[FossilFree]

I bet there would be some void presence though. I mean how many expansion did not have an old god presence one way or another?

I think if they do a void expansion it would be in the form of another Argus type patch, as opposed to a Shadowlands kind of deal.

[Cheezits]

Its just with many of these things that were made years ago have suddenly a link to current stuff. I just dont buy it they had this in mind back then.

Same with the jailor, who suddenly was the guy who was behind alot of stuff.

I wouldn't be surprised if "there is a secret world tree on backside of azeroth with an old god attached" was some old lore floating around at the time of Chronicle.

All the whisper stuff pointing to an underground tree is newer and makes a lot of sense to be written with that in mind, as there was no other relevant tree besides Amirdrassil.

[Revamp Man]

That Green Dragon book is very interesting. Adds more fuel to the titans are bad theories I guess. Bad maybe being the wrong word here, more like they only believe their way is the right one and don't agree with anything else.

I believe it's more cowardice
Imagine a force that just keeps killing your soldiers and scouts and instead of killing eachother they get stronger

[Izalla]

Its just with many of these things that were made years ago have suddenly a link to current stuff. I just dont buy it they had this in mind back then.

Same with the jailor, it just made zero sense to me.

The writers are probably a mix of pantsers and plotters. Some plots are being seeded for future use without an actual plan what said plots will be (probably most void related whispers), and some are put in place with specific ideas in mind. Both are valid ways to write as long as you don't have to make up a bunch of nonsense and retcons to justify/explain the stuff you did while pantsing.

[Revamp Man]

Its just with many of these things that were made years ago have suddenly a link to current stuff. I just dont buy it they had this in mind back then.

Same with the jailor, who suddenly was the guy who was behind alot of stuff.

I mean they had the 5th old god
They had void influence in the dream
Why not just put the two together?

[Wangming]

And Battle for Azeroth had no old god plotlines. Oh wait. You can't dismiss anything when the expansion hasn't even been announced yet, because we don't know anything about it yet. Literally nothing is clear about what won't be in it. We only have hits of a few things that will be.

I mean Vanilla had Old Gods
There was an Old God summoning ritual in TBC
Wrath had Yoggie bear
Cataclysm was full on Old God mode
MoP had Y'Shaarj stuff
WoD.....yeah I think that was the one skip.
Legion had Emelrald Nightmare, Knaifu, and all these other stuff related to Old God servants.
BfA had two Old Gods, three if we count Knaifu
Shadowlands...another skip, I guess
Dragonflight....we are getting to that part.

So yeah it is a pretty same bet that Old Gods wil be involved somehow in some form.

[Revamp Man]

The writers are probably a mix of pantsers and plotters. Some plots are being seeded for future use without an actual plan what said plots will be (probably most void related whispers), and some are put in place with specific ideas in mind. Both are valid ways to write as long as you don't have to make up a bunch of nonsense and retcons to justify/explain the stuff you did while pantsing.

BfA expedition items are the best examples

They put out all these story point and while some like the dragon isles are expansion we also get some that are just patches like the klaxxi.

Smolderon was mentioned in one but doubt he was planned to be a 10.2 boss.

[Wangming]

I think if they do a void expansion it would be in the form of another Argus type patch, as opposed to a Shadowlands kind of deal.

Well when I say void expansion I don't mean it in a sense of going into the eye of the voidstorm. Just that it will involve void-aligned stuff. Doesn't even need to be directly Old Gods. It can be Naga, Twilight Hammer, or maybe the Nightmare escaping into the world.

- - - Updated - - -

The writers are probably a mix of pantsers and plotters. Some plots are being seeded for future use without an actual plan what said plots will be (probably most void related whispers), and some are put in place with specific ideas in mind. Both are valid ways to write as long as you don't have to make up a bunch of nonsense and retcons to justify/explain the stuff you did while pantsing.

Yeah therein lies the problem.

[Izalla]

I mean they had the 5th old god
They had void influence in the dream
Why not just put the two together?

One of the best things they've done in recent years was the whole titan world soul thing that explained the Well of Eternity, why killing Old Gods was too dangerous and they had to be locked up, and why Azeroth is so special. All those things were completely unexplained, written according to rule of cool, and definitely did not have any plan or backstory when written, and thus were kinda stupid from a writing perspective. Exploring the mysteries of the universe or the titans too much is not exactly ideal, but those changes were a wonderful tying together of three unrelated concepts that just worked really well despite not being planned. Hats off who whoever came up with those changes.

[Draedarr]

Its just with many of these things that were made years ago have suddenly a link to current stuff. I just dont buy it they had this in mind back then.

Same with the jailor, who suddenly was the guy who was behind alot of stuff.

Perhaps they had no concrete plan to what the use could be in the future.
But, i could see them leaving things to be further developed later, and to be used in other threads of storylines.

[Wangming]

But with the Shadowlands lore it seems more like the Dream is meant to be like, a waiting room where anima is recycled from Ardenweald into new life before it passes into the material plane. And it was designed that way by the First Ones, the Titans just utilized it to its full potential; as Life without well-maintained filters can get perverted with the weird invasive sentient plants of Draenor.

You know, I actually like this interpretation. And it gives a chance for really crazy balls to the walls kinda life to exist in the Dream. Whatever got caught in the filter.

[Nightshade711]

At this point its rather clear that 11.0 will not be a void expansion of any sort. More likely its going to be taking place on a new continent surrounded by storms, alongside Avaloren and Khaz Algar playing secondary roles.

If you mentioned the main Legion leveling zones & the basic story behind them you wouldn’t think it’s a Legion expansion.
Vrykul/Val’kyr Titan zone.
Naga/“eye of Azshara” zone.
Magic elf city zone.
Emerald dream-ish/nightmare-ish zone.
Tauren zone.

Now take all of that and nobody would believe we’d be going to Argus in the final patch to fight two titans and imprison Sargeras.
(Infact, before the announcement I remember people saying that we WOULDN’T be going to Argus as a patch zone/dealing with Sargeras and that would be a new expansion itself)

We don’t know what the fissure is, for example. It could contain Xal’atath’s old god body for example.
We don’t know what Khaz Algar or Avaloren even really are. It could contain anything.

[FossilFree]

Well when I say void expansion I don't mean it in a sense of going into the eye of the voidstorm. Just that it will involve void-aligned stuff. Doesn't even need to be directly Old Gods. It can be Naga, Twilight Hammer, or maybe the Nightmare escaping into the world.

Yea, I also expect to see a lot of void tie-ins even if the expansion isn't explicitly themed around the void. I just want them to build on the Sarkareth visuals, the "whisper in the dark" stuff, more than the eyeball tentacle insanity stuff.

[milkmustache]

At this point its rather clear that 11.0 will not be a void expansion of any sort. More likely its going to be taking place on a new continent surrounded by storms, alongside Avaloren and Khaz Algar playing secondary roles.

The lead villain and his possible allies are all void related. We don't need a tenticle filled, beat you over the head with the purple zone for it to be a void expansion. Dragonflight was a void expansion. 11.0 will continue that threat, because it has not been neutralized. It's so simple, but you just want to keep arguing because your word is fact.