Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

"All signs?" He gives that sentiment at first, during his logs. But Tyr clearly has the opposite stance as Odyn at the time of his death. Also Tyr & Odyn aren't Titans. The actual moral might just be anti-Keeper. Seems like the Keepers were being forced to improvise a lot.

All signs, as in Tyr is a completely empty character if he isnt shown to be antagonistic once he returns. Like Odyn in Legion, except no Vrykul, Helya, or Halls of Valor. Just a Titan Keeper who is helpful.

[Selorian]

I think that story thread will already be resolved in 10.2

We get a campaign quest where Vyranoth attacks the Halls of Valor & confronts Odyn. The ptr just doesn't have the conclusion of that scenario via cutscene.In a very Sylvanasian way, Vyranoth straight up tells Eyir to stand down or she'll kill her & Eyir flees. A major human religion is now in shambles.

I'd be pretty disappointed if Odyn just gets talked down in a sidestory. They've doubled down on his asshole nature with the lore books and he's historically been anti-dragon.

[Sondrelk]

Yikes. More woke shit.

Well Elune was shown previously to have had a thing going with a giant stag, so who knows.

Also importantly, it's only mentioned Eonar loved Elune, nothing about what Elune thought. And for that matter, this whole thing does kinda explain why Eonar was hidnig out on Elunaria.

[Santandame]

Yikes. More woke shit.

I’m not sure why the consensus in this thread is that it’s a sapphic love affair when all that’s stated is Eonar’s “great love” for Elune. It could simply be that Eonar reveres and worships Elune, and takes inspiration from them.

[huth]

All signs, as in Tyr is a completely empty character if he isnt shown to be antagonistic once he returns. Like Odyn in Legion, except no Vrykul, Helya, or Halls of Valor. Just a Titan Keeper who is helpful.

So completely unlike Odyn, who only helped because he didn't have any other choice and was still pretty disdainful, you mean?

[Ersula]

I'd be pretty disappointed if Odyn just gets talked down in a sidestory. They've doubled down on his asshole nature with the lore books and he's historically been anti-dragon.

Unless that unfinished cutscene is Vyranoth & Odyn fighting to the death.

All signs, as in Tyr is a completely empty character if he isnt shown to be antagonistic once he returns. Like Odyn in Legion, except no Vrykul, Helya, or Halls of Valor. Just a Titan Keeper who is helpful.

That would fit as, by their nature Titan-constructs lack humanity.

Yikes. More woke shit.

Mythological Lesbian Erotica is now woke?

Books found in 10.2 hint at Eonar and Elune being star crossed lovers. Eonar planted G'hanir somewhere, which was then uprooted by Aman'thul, creating a massive crater, though with the roots still holding strong.

That does follow with Elune being Pantheon of Life & Eonar being Pantheon of Order. Amanthul likely removed it because it was outside the perameters of the job (Being Stewards of Order, not Life)

[Cheezits]

Elune having some kind of concrete relationship (of some kind) with Eonar is exactly what the Eternal Ones were missing. There is no reason they should never have mentioned the Titans. Even if they existed only as of Shadowlands, they should've been baked better into the lore.

[Santandame]

Well Elune was shown previously to have had a thing going with a giant stag, so who knows.

Also importantly, it's only mentioned Eonar loved Elune, nothing about what Elune thought. And for that matter, this whole thing does kinda explain why Eonar was hidnig out on Elunaria.

Isn’t the implication with Elune + Malorne more along the lines of immaculate conception like God with Mary = Jesus? Rather than an actual love affair.

[huth]

I’m not sure why the consensus in this thread is that it’s a sapphic love affair when all that’s stated is Eonar’s “great love” for Elune. It could simply be that Eonar reveres and worships Elune, and takes inspiration from them.

Not like we know anything about Elune's side of the story outside of her gifting a piece of wood.

[pacotaco]

I suppose I count Cosmic as something else then. I count Cosmic as something that will require going away from Azeroth in some capacity. Legion being cosmic because the logical endgame is on Argus for instance.
I suppose by my own reckoning that should make Old Gods cosmic given Zereth Umbra exists, but I don't really count those.

By that classification, only Vanilla and WotLK are not cosmic:
- TBC: another planet -> Cosmic
- Cataclysm: elemental planes -> Cosmic
- WoD: another planet -> Cosmic
- Legion: another planet -> Cosmic
- BFA: Old God dream -> Cosmic
- Shadowlands: Death realm -> Cosmic
- Dragonflight: Life realm -> Cosmic

[Sondrelk]

So completely unlike Odyn, who only helped because he didn't have any other choice and was still pretty disdainful, you mean?

I suppose you are right.
An even more boring Odyn. Someone whose sole defining feature is helping us at some point.

[huth]

Isn’t the implication with Elune + Malorne more along the lines of immaculate conception like God with Mary = Jesus? Rather than an actual love affair.

Immaculate conception is without the original sin. Not without sex.

[Nymrohd]

I suppose I count Cosmic as something else then. I count Cosmic as something that will require going away from Azeroth in some capacity. Legion being cosmic because the logical endgame is on Argus for instance.
I suppose by my own reckoning that should make Old Gods cosmic given Zereth Umbra exists, but I don't really count those.

I'd say that Cosmic is something that takes us out of the Physical Reality. So only Shadowlands is really cosmic.

- - - Updated - - -

I suppose you are right.
An even more boring Odyn. Someone whose sole defining feature is helping us at some point.

And him playing second fiddle to Odyn would somehow be less boring.

[Ersula]

Immaculate conception is without the original sin. Not without sex.

Don't bring Protestant interpretation of Catholicism into this conversation.

[FossilFree]

Yikes. More woke shit.

What do lesbians have to do with African American rights?

[Xilurm]

I just went to Shattrath and I noticed, G'eras looks awfully close to a dark naaru. What gives?

[Raetary]

I’m not sure why the consensus in this thread is that it’s a sapphic love affair when all that’s stated is Eonar’s “great love” for Elune. It could simply be that Eonar reveres and worships Elune, and takes inspiration from them.

Why not?

The text is stereotypically insinuating a love affair.

[Sondrelk]

And him playing second fiddle to Odyn would somehow be less boring.

An Odyn that would have no Vrykul and Val'kyr, no Halls of Valor, no antagonistic relationship with Helya.

Luckily the Odyn we do have does indeed have all of that, and he is also a massive asshole with an ego. Having him and Tyr team up for some "for the better good" villainy would be pretty interesting I think.

[pacotaco]

I suppose the problem here is that the Shadowlands were never truly shown to be a waiting room for life. In fact all we saw there seemed to imply that the Shadowlands was in fact the true end.

No, the other way around:

[Makorus]

I just don't think they involved Odyn twice in an expansion that has a lot of Anti-Titan rhetoric without it leading to something.

I always found the "Odyn is gonna be the final boss!" in Shadowlands/BfA extremely silly, but I can see him being antagonistic in the next expansion, especially if we might go to the place that he has been trying to reach all along.