Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[milkmustache]

I’m not sure why the consensus in this thread is that it’s a sapphic love affair when all that’s stated is Eonar’s “great love” for Elune. It could simply be that Eonar reveres and worships Elune, and takes inspiration from them.

I also got this implication. It seems that Elune is on a level far more mysterious to us than the Titans, and Eonar seems to have a huge admiration for her. I'm not convinced this love is romantic, but if it is, I don't believe it's entirely mutual. I think that Eonar idolizes and worships Elune with her entire heart, and Elune entertains this as a god would a worshipper. I don't see it as romantic.

But it probably is.

[Ersula]

No, the other way around:

Yes, but we know Ardenweald recycles Anima back into the realm of the living, denoting it as a circle, not a straight line. That also explains why the Broker's version of the cosmology chart labels the same section that the Titan's chart includes the Dream, the Material Plane & the Shadowlands, as one thing, combining all three into "The Great Cycle"

[flan1337]

Yes, but we know Ardenweald recycles Anima back into the realm of the living, denoting it as a circle, not a straight line. That also explains why the Broker's version of the cosmology chart labels the same section that the Titan's chart includes the Dream, the Material Plane & the Shadowlands, as one thing, combining all three into "The Great Cycle"

Which explains the ouroboros snake shown throughout the shadowlands

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Ah yes, the Yandere Eonar brainrot has settled in.

[Auxis]

Just spitballing here. What if the whisper "Her heart is a crater and we have filled it." Could be referring to Elun'ahir?
The tree meant a great deal to Eonar. It left a crater. And it filled with life as Freya watched over it at Eonars bidding.
And what if the roots were were drawing from something dark below the surface which influenced said life?

[huth]

An Odyn that would have no Vrykul and Val'kyr, no Halls of Valor, no antagonistic relationship with Helya.

Luckily the Odyn we do have does indeed have all of that, and he is also a massive asshole with an ego. Having him and Tyr team up for some "for the better good" villainy would be pretty interesting I think.

That sounds more like you're deliberately ignoring any non-antagonistic parts of Tyr than there being any problem with the character. As if you want him as an antagonist and are now looking for excuses to make it so.

And no, i don't think that would be in the least interesting. Having them be antagonistic to each other i could see, though having Tyr be antagonistic to us would first require some more solid reason. Having them team up doesn't seem very sensible given that Odyn doesn't seem particularly well-liked by his kin to begin with and would have some rather direct friction points with Tyr.

[Ersula]

Just spitballing here. What if the whisper "Her heart is a crater and we have filled it." Could be referring to Elun'ahir?
The tree meant a great deal to Eonar. It left a crater. And it filled with life as Freya watched over it at Eonars bidding.
And what if the roots were were drawing from something dark below the surface which influenced said life?

The World trees have different names but they're all one thing. Every single one is just part of G'hanir, the original.

Ah yes the Yandere Eonar brainrot has settled in.

The Great Gooning of the Universe

[Cheezits]

Odyn is being set up (and has been set up) as the biggest dick of the Keepers, not Tyr, but Tyr has a 50/50 shot of joining him as is cruelty to the dragons is slowly being exposed. It's currently kind of building to that.

I can see the Keepers of Ulduar being our friends, but not Odyn and Tyr.

[micwini]

What do lesbians have to do with African American rights?

Seems like you do not know what the word means. Im not going to go further into this, but feel free to look it up what it means. I will also not reply to any more similar comments (see signature).

[Santandame]

Why not?

The text is stereotypically insinuating a love affair.

I don’t see how it is stereotypically insinuating a love affair. There’s nothing to even suggest romance. Just that Elune gifted Eonar a branch to plant and that Eonar planted it to “honour her great love”. It seems a lot more along the lines of worship to me than an actual love affair. You can have great love for something and it not be romantic. It just feels like people are projecting their wants onto something here.

- - - Updated - - -

I also got this implication. It seems that Elune is on a level far more mysterious to us than the Titans, and Eonar seems to have a huge admiration for her. I'm not convinced this love is romantic, but if it is, I don't believe it's entirely mutual. I think that Eonar idolizes and worships Elune with her entire heart, and Elune entertains this as a god would a worshipper. I don't see it as romantic.

But it probably is.

You’ve surmised it a lot more eloquently than I could. I agree. I’m not sure where the romance implication is coming from other than people projecting what they want to see.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I guess we still have like 3 weeks until some proper and juicy leaks happen.

[Sondrelk]

That sounds more like you're deliberately ignoring any non-antagonistic parts of Tyr than there being any problem with the character. As if you want him as an antagonist and are now looking for excuses to make it so.

And no, i don't think that would be in the least interesting. Having them be antagonistic to each other i could see, though having Tyr be antagonistic to us would first require some more solid reason. Having them team up doesn't seem very sensible given that Odyn doesn't seem particularly well-liked by his kin to begin with and would have some rather direct friction points with Tyr.

I certainly am reading a bit more into Tyrs character. But I think very justifiably, given all the foreshadowing with his experiments on Proto-dragons to uncertain ends and such.

I don't get why you think Odyn was not all that well liked. He left Ulduar, but that seemed more on his ego than anything. The only outcast Titan Keeper seemed to be Loken, and that was precisely because of his belief in not tampering with mortal races for nebulous Titan Keeper reasons.

The issue with having Tyr be friendly is that it doesnt serve the story in any way to build it up this much, and not have anything happen once we revive him. We could have revived him at the beginning and have him take the place of Koranos, and that could work. Or we could need him to open some Titan lock somewhere to save the world.
Currently though there is no such reason to revive him, which means that narratively his revival needs to be an impetus in itself. And the only way you do that is if he does something surprising once he does wake up.
All the Dragon aspects wanted to revive him, but noone had a particular reason. In fact, most of the Aspects' storylines seem to move in the direction away from the Titan Keepers. Nozdormu questions the purpose of sticking to the timeline so rigidly. Alexstrasza agrees that the Titan Keeper experiments on Vyranoths eggs were monstrous. Just now we got the books that hint towards the Titans not being fully onboard with Life in general, and the Emerald Dream might very well just be their curated corner of Lifes domain, taken for nebulous reasons. They certainly didnt seem happy that Eonar was fraternizing with Elune.

[flan1337]

Why not?

The text is stereotypically insinuating a love affair.

I think it does bring up if Titans get romantically involved at all - I know Odyn and keepers has I believe with a lot of drama there? I do think this 'love' is more of a forbidden friendship type of deal. I think we will see that the Void/Nature might have more of a friendship than we think? I mean the curse of flesh did create life no?

If Elune is a titan why is not shown with the rest? Maybe she got out casted?

[huth]

Seems like you do not know what the word means. Im not going to go further into this, but feel free to look it up what it means. I will also not reply to any more similar comments (see signature).

That's going to be rather useless since the detractors steadfastly refuse to define what they actually mean by it. Meaning your post was essentially non-constructive flaming.

[Sondrelk]

Odyn is being set up (and has been set up) as the biggest dick of the Keepers, not Tyr, but Tyr has a 50/50 shot of joining him as is cruelty to the dragons is slowly being exposed. It's currently kind of building to that.

I can see the Keepers of Ulduar being our friends, but not Odyn and Tyr.

It's been a while now, but we did learn at some point that the only Titan Keeper that was considered an outcast of sorts was Loken. And it was primarily because of his unorthodox views on mortal races. Seemingly being the only keeper that didnt think it right to meddle too much. Said meddling being exactly what Tyr was doing to the Proto-dragons.

Odyn seems to be the most cruel of the keepers. But the other keepers didnt seem to mind at all.

[Ferlion]

Isn’t the implication with Elune + Malorne more along the lines of immaculate conception like God with Mary = Jesus? Rather than an actual love affair.

Very much no.

We have two versions.

The White Stag and the Moon, where Mu'sha found him stuck in the stars after getting stuck trying to escape Tauren hunters. She fell in love with him as soon as she saw him. As part of her bargain to free him, he was to love her and end her loneliness. Mu'sha loved Apa'ro and conceived a child by him. This is where Cenarius comes from.

Then we have the other version, gossip text from the Druids of the Antler.
Essentially, Malorne fell in love with Elune during the first nightfall of Azeroth. Her light guided him and let him see, and banished fear and inspired hope. It's mentioned that Elune kinda just did her own thing and gave people help as she wanted on her own rules, and many other creatures tried to capture ensnare her.

But Malorne chased her and chased her until he grew so swift that he finally managed to catch her. She was so moved by his devotion and beauty that she made him her consort.

In both versions, it's not presented as a Jesus type situation as much as an Elune's kinda down bad situation.

[huth]

I think it does bring up if Titans get romantically involved at all - I know Odyn and keepers has I believe with a lot of drama there? I do think this 'love' is more of a forbidden friendship type of deal. I think we will see that the Void/Nature might have more of a friendship than we think? I mean the curse of flesh did create life no?

If Elune is a titan why is not shown with the rest? Maybe she got out casted?

All we know about Elune strongly indicates she's part of the Life pantheon, with her position likely being a Life mirror of the Winter Queen, so i rather doubt that.

[plz delete account]

It's not worth replying to him anymore. We all know he is wrong to insist things like "we've already datamined 2 things and so we know what the entire expansion will be about", but he will never admit it, so it's really just not worth it to engage.

People haven't just blocked Teriz yet?

[Ersula]

I think it does bring up if Titans get romantically involved at all - I know Odyn and keepers has I believe with a lot of drama there? I do think this 'love' is more of a forbidden friendship type of deal. I think we will see that the Void/Nature might have more of a friendship than we think? I mean the curse of flesh did create life no?

If Elune is a titan why is not shown with the rest? Maybe she got out casted?

Because the Titans we know are associated with Order & Elune is associated with life. They appear to be similar creatures but with different goals. Hearthstone straight up calls the Primus a titan even though he is in the Pantheon of Death.

I don’t see how it is stereotypically insinuating a love affair. There’s nothing to even suggest romance. Just that Elune gifted Eonar a branch to plant and that Eonar planted it to “honour her great love”. It seems a lot more along the lines of worship to me than an actual love affair. You can have great love for something and it not be romantic. It just feels like people are projecting their wants onto something here.

Considering she did it in spite of the other titan's feelings, that points to their relationship being way more than "mutual respect."

Seems like you do not know what the word means. Im not going to go further into this, but feel free to look it up what it means. I will also not reply to any more similar comments (see signature).

You're telling on yourself if you needed a pejorative for any references to marginalized groups.

Odyn seems to be the most cruel of the keepers. But the other keepers didnt seem to mind at all.

It never became a problem because Helya locked him up. You can read into the fact that no other keeper made an attempt to free the Prime Designate from a prison pocket dimension.

I even had a theory that the whole story about Heretics in Avaloren was a lie & that was just Odyn trying to convince the other keepers to come pick him up.

[pacotaco]

Yes, but we know Ardenweald recycles Anima back into the realm of the living, denoting it as a circle, not a straight line. That also explains why the Broker's version of the cosmology chart labels the same section that the Titan's chart includes the Dream, the Material Plane & the Shadowlands, as one thing, combining all three into "The Great Cycle"

Yeah, but this was referring to the comment "so the Dream is like the Veil? Are there more Dreams in other planets?"
And my response was that yeah, the same way each planet has a Veil that recollects the souls of the deceased (funneling all to the same place), it makes sense that life works the same way, in reverse: generates life in a place, and distribute it along several places through the Dream