Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Reive]

No way wow has 10m subs lmao. 2m at the best.

[flan1337]

on a serious note, something is likely going to happen. amirdrassil was also disconnected from the emerald dream in the last ptr build. it also had its own general chat. truly curious

There are currently two options for Amirdrassil - it stays in its same spot in DF or it gets transported elsewhere in the world. It having its own general chat is interesting almost as if it was a zone or city...

[Thomir]

Doesn't make sense for chaos to have leadership. You'd need a literal god of Order to order chaos.

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No way wow has 10m subs lmao. 2m at the best.

3 million is my bet.

[Ferlion]

Doesn't make sense for chaos to have leadership. You'd need a literal god of Order to order chaos.

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3 million is my bet.

Either is still making bank

[Sydrache]

https://x.com/algalon_ghost/status/1...116398358?s=20 Uh, think they messed up.

What's that mean

[Reive]

3 million is my bet.

imo: 2m retail and 800k-1m classic (including era, hc and wotlk).

https://x.com/algalon_ghost/status/1...116398358?s=20 Uh, think they messed up.

i wonder what that 1.15 is going to be

[Ferlion]

imo: 2m retail and 800k-1m classic (including era, hc and wotlk).



i wonder what that 1.15 is going to be

Retail+. Big

[Hitei]

I thought this was already well understood as fact. Sargeras was a Titan who fell to chaos and took power, but before him, obviously there had to be some sort of power hierarchy. We just don’t know what or who.

Not really had to be. Before him the biggest players were the Nathrezim, who are also not natively Chaos.

It would be on brand for Chaos not to have a dedicated hierarchy, pantheon or even structure.

[Reive]

Retail+. Big

retail+ was cata. this will be retail ++

[Nightshade711]

It would be on brand for Chaos not to have a dedicated hierarchy, pantheon or even structure.

I agree with this. I think it’s just a “strongest rules” thing, and Sargeras / the dreadlords were just the strongest at the time.

[huth]

retail+ was cata. this will be retail ++

Isn't Retail+ currently DF?

[Ebonn]

Not really had to be. Before him the biggest players were the Nathrezim, who are also not natively Chaos.

It would be on brand for Chaos not to have a dedicated hierarchy, pantheon or even structure.

That’s what I’m saying. I don’t mean hierarchy as an established, concrete system - I mean there is power to be had, and no matter how chaotic, someone or somethigg N would eventually rise to the top and take whatever power they could. It could have lasted moments or millions of years but we just don’t know. Same as for Nathrezim. We can assume they have always been rifling about, but can’t say to what extent they held power. They seems to be subversive more than holding onto primary power themselves. So I would say, yes, naturally it would imply there was a hierarchy to that power. Otherwise, all demons would be equal and I think it’s safe to say all demons are not equal in power considering a common theme among them is to subjugate the weaker.

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I agree with this. I think it’s just a “strongest rules” thing, and Sargeras / the dreadlords were just the strongest at the time.

Yes, that’s what I was getting at also - some one or some thing held power before Sargeras, we just don’t know who or what.

[Ersula]

No way wow has 10m subs lmao. 2m at the best.

I see the mistake I made. I thought WoW had 20 million subs at its height during original wrath, but it was actually about 15 million. The top 10 servers for both retail & classic have between 1k & 2k online at any given time. They reported the launch of WoD had a peak of 10m subs & that Legion's launch exceeded that. Given that trend I'd adjust that average & estimate WoW has about 5 million today. Primarily because after vanilla, the WoW subscribers number has never dropped below 5 million, even during it's most hated expansions & content droughts.

[Yunravel]

Yup, some very talented people worked/are working on that but I'm afraid we can't talk about that on this forum.

I worked on it

[ro9ue]

Isn't Retail+ currently DF?

Yeah no clue what Retail+ means lol.

But IDK, imo everyone should take a look at what EverQuest did. Holly Longdale kept EQ alive and she's now the VP/EP of WoW.

EQ did a ton of new "classic" progression server releases with all different rulesets, expansion unlock speeds, etc. I think with WoW, you can do that and much more. I think Classic Hardcore and the Wrath dungeon badges upgrading is just them dipping their toes in.

I'd personally like to see a hard level cap server where all new expansion content is released at 60 forever, and all items are indefinitely relevant, sort of like ESO or other horizontal progression games. Imagine being able to assemble and mix and match your gear set using the entire backlog of tier sets, trinkets and weapons.

One really popular EQ ruleset was random loot, so iirc enemies were grouped into "tiers" and any item could drop within their tier pool. So you can do a dungeon and it could drop loot from any dungeon, do a raid, and it could be from any raid boss. Plus you could have a low chance for a lower tier mob to drop something from 1 tier above. So you kill Hogger in the open world, can drop a dungeon item. If you do a dungeon, chance for a raid item to drop.


There's a lot they can do. I think they also need to figure out what are some really awesome additions to the game that don't have any clear or major drawbacks. Would it be so bad to have a Classic server with transmogging for example?

[DiscipleofCazicThule]

What's the opinion on when the virtual ticket details will be announced? My money is on next week, probably on Tuesday.

[flan1337]

Holly Longdale kept EQ alive and she's now the VP/EP of WoW.

Oh man I did not know she worked on EQ - I am surprised EQ is still going to this day with xpacks. Even just announcing one just a couple days ago.

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What's the opinion on when the virtual ticket details will be announced? My money is on next week, probably on Tuesday.

Honestly they are kinda late this year - in 2019 it was shown exactly 1 month before the con, but that is probably because they wanted to drive sale PPV metrics. This year technically has no virtual ticket as it is free to watch all the panels(its only 1 stage this year.) They will have the blizzcon collection which will be the goodies.

So, there is no drive for them to show it until the last week if they wanted to.

[Reive]

I see the mistake I made. I thought WoW had 20 million subs at its height during original wrath, but it was actually about 15 million. The top 10 servers for both retail & classic have between 1k & 2k online at any given time. They reported the launch of WoD had a peak of 10m subs & that Legion's launch exceeded that. Given that trend I'd adjust that average & estimate WoW has about 5 million today. Primarily because after vanilla, the WoW subscribers number has never dropped below 5 million, even during it's most hated expansions & content droughts.

1)wow had 12m subs between wrath and cata
2)the last time they reported the sub numbers was at the end of wod with 4.5m subs
3)in legion one dev said that wow had reached again 10m subs but that was later dismissed
4)shadowlands was (for only 24 hours) the fastest selling pc game with 3.7m d1 sales. Nathria/m+ had higher peaks than bfa. Easy to think that wow had at least 7m players at the start of shadowlands. then the lawsuit happened and wow lost at least 50% of its players
5) dragonflight d1 sales were so low that blizzard refused to mention them. it's easy to believe they were lower than the lowest announced number (2.4m from tbc)
6) last jan wow offcially lost china. china was supposed to be at least 50% of the playerbase. Some moved to taiwan/na servers, but most stopped playing completely

Considering all this, i think that retail wow has around 1.5-2m players

[Dismayxz]

1)wow had 12m subs between wrath and cata
2)the last time they reported the sub numbers was at the end of wod with 4.5m subs
3)in legion one dev said that wow had reached again 10m subs but that was later dismissed
4)shadowlands was (for only 24 hours) the fastest selling pc game with 3.7m d1 sales. Nathria/m+ had higher peaks than bfa. Easy to think that wow had at least 7m players at the start of shadowlands. then the lawsuit happened and wow lost at least 50% of its players
5) dragonflight d1 sales were so low that blizzard refused to mention them. it's easy to believe they were lower than the lowest announced number (2.4m from tbc)
6) last jan wow offcially lost china. china was supposed to be at least 50% of the playerbase. Some moved to taiwan/na servers, but most stopped playing completely

Considering all this, i think that retail wow has around 1.5-2m players

I think the estimation of 50% lost to the Lawsuits is wild. Yes, it was a big lawsuit. Yes everything happening alongside SL and SL itself were terrible. But I think that no matter how many "good apples" one perceives on the internet, there's a dozen for each one that couldn't give less of a fuck on who was drinking who's breast milk at big corporation x that happens to make the Video Game they play.

[Nibelheimy]

I could see the current subs sitting between 2 and 5 million, probably closer to around 3/4 however. Which at either end, is still a staggering amount of monthly income.

I have a friend who is so very insistent on wow becoming free to play because it in his words: 'Doesn't make any money'. I chuckle every time he brings this up.