Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

You exist in such a weird alternate reality from the rest of us.

So a player who is level 60 and skipped Dragonflight pre-orders the heroic edition of the 11.0 expansion, and gets a dragonriding-enabled gryphon mount as a reward. Please explain how this player wouldn't be screwed vs that same player getting a standard mount as a reward instead.

[Myrrh]

Well Blizzard already announced that standard flying for the dragon isles will be available by 10.2, which is when the heroic mount will be available, so they will be able to use the heroic mount during current expansion content.

There are players who don't like dragon riding, whereas standard flying is pretty much enjoyed by all players. There are also players who may want the mount but haven't gotten all the talents for dragonriding (players who may have skipped DF but the new expansion interests them enough to pre-order). So obviously if your goal is to use the heroic mount to appeal to as many potential players as possible, you're going to go with a standard mount over a dragonriding one.

That distinction is only likely to last for the duration of Dragonflight though... and most players aren't going to find a purely 'old' flight mount (at least until broader 11.0 access to dynamic flight kicks in) worth spending money on when they're mainly jetting around in the dragon isles for many months to come.

Marlamin mentioned they've already been working on a toggle function for some time; they could do something janky like enable it for the collector's mount only until 11.0 as an incentive.

[Marlamin]

I bet you that the first raid of the next expansion contains one spider boss and if I'm right you have to resume updating .tools.

The website isn't coming back regardless of what bet I take unless I find a cache of money and time to continue maintaining a service like that. But hey, you can basically run your own now!

So a player who is level 60 and skipped Dragonflight pre-orders the heroic edition of the 11.0 expansion, and gets a dragonriding-enabled gryphon mount as a reward. Please explain how this player wouldn't be screwed vs that same player getting a standard mount as a reward instead.

I don't think static/dynamic flight are mutually exclusive. It might work that way right now, but they've definitely been working on getting rid of that. Whether or not it works/lands in 10.2 remains to be seen.

[AngerFork]

Who wants to bet Dragonriding in the Old World is the Pre-order Bonus, plus the expanded selection of Dragonriding mounts.

This would surprise me, honestly. While it could be fun in some respects, it would be weird from a coding standpoint to allow for the usage of those specific spells to be locked behind a purchase temporarily. Plus there's not a lot of stuff to bring people into the Old World at this point to incentivize the Old World Dragonriding.

I'm guessing it'll be a similar assortment to what we've seen in recent years. If there's a new class, I'd guess it'll be available around the time of the pre-patch. If there's a new race, I'd guess it'll be available in the last patch of Dragonflight. Maybe some sort of new race/class combo, though the pre-order Allied Race DKs didn't seem to generate a ton of excitement as I recall. Beyond that, I'm thinking they'll rely on things like Trader's Tender and the Heroic/Epic Edition goodies to move pre-orders.

[Teriz]

That distinction is only likely to last for the duration of Dragonflight though... and most players aren't going to find a purely 'old' flight mount (at least until broader 11.0 access to dynamic flight kicks in) worth spending money on when they're mainly jetting around in the dragon isles for many months to come.

Marlamin mentioned they've already been working on a toggle function for some time; they could do something janky like enable it for the collector's mount only until 11.0 as an incentive.

Well keep in mind, the heroic mount for 11.0 is going to be available in 10.2 when the pre-orders for the next expansion begin. I seriously don't believe that Blizzard is going to have dragonriding or dynamic flying accessible in Outland, Northrend, Cataclym zones, Pandaria, Draenor, Broken Isles/Argus, Kul'tira/Zandalar, and the Shadowlands by 10.2.

Meanwhile, a standard mount will be able to fly in all those zones.

[Valkorion1337]

Benn a bit since i updated it.

Also here's the link to the gallery: https://imgur.com/a/LTF6Qug

lol keep this up making me cry with laughter

[Ersula]

So a player who is level 60 and skipped Dragonflight pre-orders the heroic edition of the 11.0 expansion, and gets a dragonriding-enabled gryphon mount as a reward. Please explain how this player wouldn't be screwed vs that same player getting a standard mount as a reward instead.

Because its safe to assume the heroic edition also comes with a character boost, which would allow dragonflying immediately.

[Dismayxz]

Well keep in mind, the heroic mount for 11.0 is going to be available in 10.2 when the pre-orders for the next expansion begin. I seriously don't believe that Blizzard is going to have dragonriding or dynamic flying accessible in Outland, Northrend, Cataclym zones, Pandaria, Draenor, Broken Isles/Argus, Kul'tira/Zandalar, and the Shadowlands by 10.2.

Meanwhile, a standard mount will be able to fly in all those zones.

100% convinced that Wall I posted is gonna get like 1 person looking at it, but one thing in there. What it the Gryphon was.. an elemental Gryphon? As in literally carved from stone and infused with Air (and well, in my speculation, also Spirit, to get that effect color).

[Teriz]

Because its safe to assume the heroic edition also comes with a character boost, which would allow dragonflying immediately.

Without the talents and the skills, which you have to unlock by actually questing in the dragon isles.

Also you'll only be able to fly in the dragon isles.

Compare that to them getting a standard mount that they can use anywhere instantly at the moment of purchase.

100% convinced that Wall I posted is gonna get like 1 person looking at it, but one thing in there. What it the Gryphon was.. an elemental Gryphon? As in literally carved from stone and infused with Air (and well, in my speculation, also Spirit, to get that effect color).

Definitely possible.

[Ferlion]

Because its safe to assume the heroic edition also comes with a character boost, which would allow dragonflying immediately.

I think there is actually a point to be had with a dragonriding enabled mount right off the bat.

Dragonriding does actually require content to advance in the form of Glyphs. And if Dragonriding is supposed to be evergreen content, I'm not exactly sure they will go the route of removing the glyphs.

[Hitei]

The website isn't coming back regardless of what bet I take unless I find a cache of money and time to continue maintaining a service like that. But hey, you can basically run your own now!

's a good compromise, but I'm still gonna say I told you so when there's a spider boss.

- - - Updated - - -

I think there is actually a point to be had with a dragonriding enabled mount right off the bat.

Dragonriding does actually require content to advance in the form of Glyphs. And if Dragonriding is supposed to be evergreen content, I'm not exactly sure they will go the route of removing the glyphs.

They've served their purpose, it's not like they haven't just 0'd progression trees in previous expansions, even ones that are much more time investment. If they move the gylph system forward in the future it will probably be altered to unlock certain mount customizations or something. Like they are converted to a currency and can be used at a vendor for various vanity things.

[flan1337]

Benn a bit since i updated it.

Also here's the link to the gallery: https://imgur.com/a/LTF6Qug

RIP Stormbreak

----

Also 10.2 and all this emerald dream talk has be thinking about this old song:


There use to be a wow Machinima fan made video of the emerald dream to this video - sucks they removed it ):

[Teriz]

I don't think static/dynamic flight are mutually exclusive. It might work that way right now, but they've definitely been working on getting rid of that. Whether or not it works/lands in 10.2 remains to be seen.

10.2 would have to remove a lot of dragon riding's current limitations in order for a dragonriding mount to match the comparative freedom of a standard mount.

I could see it happening in 11.0, but definitely not in 10.2. I also believe that Blizzard would want their heroic mount to be applicable to as wide an audience as possible, even to players who skipped DF entirely, or dropped it mid-expansion. You simply won't do that with a dragonriding mount relying on one of the core features of the current expansion.

[Dismayxz]

's a good compromise, but I'm still gonna say I told you so when there's a spider boss.

- - - Updated - - -



They've served their purpose, it's not like they haven't just 0'd progression trees in previous expansions, even ones that are much more time investment. If they move the gylph system forward in the future it will probably be altered to unlock certain mount customizations or something. Like they are converted to a currency and can be used at a vendor for various vanity things.

Or they just keep the same tree, but add more Glyphs in the new Zones. The Progression is effectively 0'd, if you've done it, you just have the tree. If you've played DF, you can just go ham. If you haven't, you have the option of speeding through the base necessary Glyphs in DF Zones rq. If you haven't done it and are unbothered by a speed impediment, you just collect the new ones as you go.

It's not bad with evergreen systems to expect people to just.. go and do the baseline everyone else has done. But doing so can be made convenient.

[Ersula]

Without the talents and the skills, which you have to unlock by actually questing in the dragon isles.

Also you'll only be able to fly in the dragon isles.

Compare that to them getting a standard mount that they can use anywhere instantly at the moment of purchase.

You're really reaching here. Now its not that they cant dragonride, but that they arent fully leveled up at dragonriding, apparently? Allied races were a pre-purchse perk & they werent even avaliable until 6 weeks later. Plus you seem to forget they wouldn't even be able to use a normal mount in the dragon isles without the pathfinder achievement and that's by design.

By your own logic, the heroic edition mount must be a dragonriding enabled mount in order for people who buy it to even use it in the current content. I personally thought the 30+ hour pathfinder achievement for normal mounts in Dragon Isles requirement was stupid but they are going through with it.

I already proposed old world dragonriding might come with it in which case this whole line of questioning is irrelevant. No real technical reason Kalimdor/EK dragonriding wouldn't come with Northrend, Outland & all the other expansions either.

[Ferlion]

So going back to the Chart (Titan PoV), the Emerald Dream is opposite the Shadowlands. We know the Shadowlands are what they say they are, at least for the purposes of the Chart. But the Emerald Dream having something possibly beyond and having been Ordered or fiddled with by the Titans to some degree, would (as others have speculated) lead one to assume that the Emerald Dream isn't per se the "Lifelands" but rather a tampered-with portion of them or a titan-ordered piece of the Veil separating the Shadowland's counterpart from Reality, that has become this sort of In-between tied to Reality.

Welll.... Thing is, this is actually a bit more complicated than that.

The Emerald Dream is.. fundamentally connected to death. Like, directly. Blizzard has made this pretty clear in a few places, most notable during one of the secrets. You have to, if memory serves, get the power needed to get into shadowlands and you take an eye from the skull of a green dragon.

But there's also a bit even more than that. Thros is kind of an intersection of cosmic powers. It exists as a physical location on Azeroth (or at least the entrance does), is part of the Emerald Dream, but has a path to the Shadowlands into it.

So like, yes. The Emerald Dream IS an ordered part of the realm of life, but I think that there is an active distinction between even an unaltered Emerald Dream and the Lifelands.

If I had to guess, The Emerald Dream (in any form) is akin to the Lifelands the same way that Death Knights on Azeroth travel in a realm of death they call the Shadowlands, but isn't exactly THE Shadowlands.

[Teriz]

You're really reaching here. Now it's not that they cant dragonride, but that they arent fully leveled up at dragonriding, apparently?

1. You can only dragon ride (fully) in the Dragon Isles.
2. You have to unlock dragonriding features in the dragon isles.
3. Your alts won't be able to use the mount until they reach the dragon isles.

Meanwhile;

1. Standard mounts can be fully used anywhere (including the Dragon Isles in 10.2)
2. You don't have to unlock talents and features in the Dragon Isles for full benefit.
3. Your lower-level alts can also use the heroic standard mount anywhere.

Allied races were a pre-purchse perk & they werent even avaliable until 6 weeks later. Plus you seem to forget they wouldn't even be able to use a normal mount in the dragon isles without the pathfinder achievement and that's by design.

Allied races aren't the same situation as this. For example, I pre-ordered Dragonflight and I didn't have access to the Dracthyr for several months afterwards. People expect to wait for new races. Mounts however are something they get access to instantly. And yeah if you skipped dragon flight, you won't be able to fly in the dragon isles. However, your standard mount can be flown everywhere else. That's kind of my point; One reward requires a great deal of questing in DF, they other does not (thus opening a wider pool of potential buyers).

If you skipped dragonflight, or quit mid-expansion, a dragonriding mount probably isn't going to appeal to you. In fact, it might turn you off completely, and that's the OPPOSITE of the goal of a heroic expansion pre-order mount.

I already proposed old world dragonriding might come with it in which case this whole line of questioning is irrelevant. No real technical reason Kalimdor/EK dragonriding wouldn't come with Northrend, Outland & all the other expansions either.

I fully believe that old world dragonriding will come as well, but not in 10.2 when this mount is going to be released. Again this mount will be available in 10.2, and dragonriding is simply not going to change at that level by that point.

[PaladinBash]

All this Elune stuff has reminded me of the Nightsong from BG3. Man she was cool as hell. Why can't they make Yrel like that?

[Dismayxz]

Welll.... Thing is, this is actually a bit more complicated than that.

The Emerald Dream is.. fundamentally connected to death. Like, directly. Blizzard has made this pretty clear in a few places, most notable during one of the secrets. You have to, if memory serves, get the power needed to get into shadowlands and you take an eye from the skull of a green dragon.

But there's also a bit even more than that. Thros is kind of an intersection of cosmic powers. It exists as a physical location on Azeroth (or at least the entrance does), is part of the Emerald Dream, but has a path to the Shadowlands into it.

So like, yes. The Emerald Dream IS an ordered part of the realm of life, but I think that there is an active distinction between even an unaltered Emerald Dream and the Lifelands.

If I had to guess, The Emerald Dream (in any form) is akin to the Lifelands the same way that Death Knights on Azeroth travel in a realm of death they call the Shadowlands, but isn't exactly THE Shadowlands.

Thanks! And yeah I agree. That whole post was something to chew through, trying to just connect pieces and see where it leads. I agree with your assessment, but I think for me it got lost in the thought process somewhere

[Marlamin]

There's a bunch of options Blizz has for making the transition into dynamic flight for new players easier, including just straight up unlocking all the glyphs on accounts with the 11.0 (preorder) license, including them with the boost and/or including a static version of the mount (if the switching system isn't ready for primetime yet).

Either that, or having the heroic mount be the first mount that can switch between both in areas where both types of flying are supported would actually be a nice incentive, maybe the switching could even be a part of the Storm Riding race. Granted, I do think we would have seen a bit of testing around the switching system on 10.2 PTR if that were the case, but it'd be a neat surprise.