Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

We are kinda running out of known lands to explore, unless you want to theme an expansion around tel'abim and bananas

I mean you know what I want. Revamp and content in existing lands. I don't need constant exploration.

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I mean, Legion and BfA were both expeditions to relatively unknown lands. Although this one could be considered the first truly 'uncharted' place we will go to. The evidence is kind of just becoming overwhelming at this point: the book in Uldaman, the books on PTR, hidden achievements AND the Storm Elemental mount at Blizzcon. I know that the 'leakers' are making shit up about the storm expansion, but even their smooth brains are picking up on a lot of evidence toward the next xpac.

Neither Legion nor BfA had an exploration theme in any way though.

[Wangming]

We are kinda running out of known lands to explore, unless you want to theme an expansion around tel'abim and bananas

Which is why people want a revamp or even a sequel so we can re-explore.
Also why a Black Empire or War of the Ancients or Emerald Dream would have worked well. Essentially an entire Azeroth-sized unknown area to explore.
Hell, as much as I don't like the idea of Ny'alotha being a weird dream version of Azeroth instead of some spooky place we visit, it could have also been an Azeroth sized area that has a new feel but requires fewer resources than a completely new planet.

[Woggmer]

Which sure, it sounds cool but DF was supposed to be MoP-like expedition to an unknown land with strong lore ties to the rest of Azeroth. So . . .two in a row of the same? Possibly with at least some of the cast shared?

I mentioned this before to Hitei, but in retrospect, MoP never felt like an "expedition," as it later became a whole military campaign with the Horde and Alliance pitting Hozen and Jinyu against each other... even later escalating to them building large fortifications in the Krasarang Wilds, even going further to the Isle of Thunder.

With DF, it is purely an expedition to the point where Alliance and Horde are trying to not start a conflict. Even the starting camps where you exit the ship/airship from aren't hostile to players of the opposing faction. Meaning a Horde player could cross over into the Alliance camp without much issue.
Though if the next expansion does take place in Khaz Algar, involving Gryphons of some kind and the Wildhammers.. you can sure as well bet that Toddy will take a more active role for that expansion.

[Mace]

I mean, Legion and BfA were both expeditions to relatively unknown lands. Although this one could be considered the first truly 'uncharted' place we will go to. The evidence is kind of just becoming overwhelming at this point: the book in Uldaman, the books on PTR, hidden achievements AND the Storm Elemental mount at Blizzcon. I know that the 'leakers' are making shit up about the storm expansion, but even their smooth brains are picking up on a lot of evidence toward the next xpac.

The evidence is overwhelming. But unexplored land we couldn't cross before has been used twice already.

First time: WC3 - Kalimdor - we couldn't go because of the Maelstrom and the druids shrouding the continent magically. Medivh had to guide the first ships through a suitable paths, and then the night elves stopped suppressing or were no longer able to suppress magic when the legion arrived - needing the new allies to use every thing they had.

Second time : Pandaria - this was shrouded too, but differently, Lei Shen story goes on about this in detail, and most would be familiar with this as it was recent, unlike the WC3 one.

Third time : Dragon Isles - sleeping land, sealed off by magic, awakened for the dragons return

Fourth time: New expansion? It seems unlikely we could never go on the other side of Azeroth, but rather the continent we will explore was shielded by impentrable storms, so you'd have to go completley around them which was impossible.

Although I find it hard to believe that night elves would never have been able to go there during the height of their empire.

The other continents we've had have been there but just not explorable till they opened up.

1. Northrend - saw in WC3, couldn't go till WotLK opened it up.

2. Broken Isles- was never lost, was always there, it was just remote and no one really knew how to get there from the EK side - i.e. humans. Those who probably knew, like Thalassian elves, who also knew about Kalimdor continent, didn't go there for the same reason they didn't go to kalimdor, night elves roamed and watched there. The islands are visited in WC3 TFT - so they aren't lost, they're just expanded.

3. Kul'tiras -same with KT, not lost, it's just part of Azeroth the game hadn't opened up for us to go, it was always there, a place but we couldn't go

4. Zandalar Zuldazar - harder to find, again a powerful race held control, capable enough to prevent anyone from coming tot hem they didn't want to until they needed to and could no longer prevent it.

5. Gilneas - always there too, itj ust wasn't unlocked, wall sealed it off

6. Naz'jatar - was at the bottom along with Zin'Azshari, magic from a pillar of creation used to raise it so we could explore

7. Vash'jir - at the bottom of the sea, we were empowered to explore down there so couldn't go there till then.

8. Hyjal/Uldum/Twilight Highlands/ Elemental planes - all always there too, just weren't filled in andopened up until they wanted to give us new stuff to explore.


So all in all, there has been far more that's been there but not opened up, than lost and magically availalbe now

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Which is why people want a revamp or even a sequel so we can re-explore.
Also why a Black Empire or War of the Ancients or Emerald Dream would have worked well. Essentially an entire Azeroth-sized unknown area to explore.
Hell, as much as I don't like the idea of Ny'alotha being a weird dream version of Azeroth instead of some spooky place we visit, it could have also been an Azeroth sized area that has a new feel but requires fewer resources than a completely new planet.

And we want an update to the stories too, the bread and butter of Azeroth are really the Eastern kingdoms.

Then it's night elf land in kalimdor/broken isles, and Undead land in Northrend.- added later in WC3.

This are waht frame all the playable races, so as much as you go to new continenets and lands etc people want to go through these again in a new light, with new events, updates and continuations to their favourite lands and their peoples

[Shadowferal]

What makes you think they are aware of anything that goes on on Azeroth? They spent an eternity half dead, getting tortured on Argus or hiding in some corner of reality, only to end up as Garrys prison guards afterwards. Not only are they weakened after the conflict, they are using all their concentration to make sure Garry doesn't go on a genocide spree again. Iridikron is fully free and is backed by the very force that can see and prophecise potential futures. He is in the perfect position to fuck over the titans.

You accept the shitty writing.
I don't.

[Nymrohd]

I mentioned this before to Hitei, but in retrospect, MoP never felt like an "expedition," as it later became a whole military campaign with the Horde and Alliance pitting Hozen and Jinyu against each other... even later escalating to them building large fortifications in the Krasarang Wilds, even going further to the Isle of Thunder.

With DF, it is purely an expedition to the point where Alliance and Horde are trying to not start a conflict. Even the starting camps where you exit the ship/airship from aren't hostile to players of the opposing faction. Meaning a Horde player could cross over into the Alliance camp without much issue.
Though if the next expansion does take place in Khaz Algar, involving Gryphons of some kind and the Wildhammers.. you can sure as well bet that Toddy will take a more active role for that expansion.

I think the difference is, Cho vs Dragonscale Expedition which Cho wins in a landslide.

[Beerplz]

Man i really wish they would just end the whole Cosmic stuff and go back to simpler more , it felt way more personal and more interesting :/ To me the whole Life/Order/Death Cosmic stuff should have been always in the background of lore being this mysterious thing what was just mentioned here and there

[Nymrohd]

Which is why people want a revamp or even a sequel so we can re-explore.
Also why a Black Empire or War of the Ancients or Emerald Dream would have worked well. Essentially an entire Azeroth-sized unknown area to explore.
Hell, as much as I don't like the idea of Ny'alotha being a weird dream version of Azeroth instead of some spooky place we visit, it could have also been an Azeroth sized area that has a new feel but requires fewer resources than a completely new planet.

Honestly I would have done a Nyalotha/Black Empire expansion . . .quite like they did 8.3. I'd have picked 5-6 zones which could be tied to the Black Empire plot, fully updated them visually and have new questlines placed there with Visions being the main mechanic of the expansion. So stretch 8.3 into a full expac.

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To be fair, with the Pantheon alive and well at the Sea of the Pantheon, and several of their Keepers and facilities on Azeroth active, I don't see why wouldn't be informed with everything going on. Illidan has probably told them a lot as well.

Do we know how they knew about Sargeras' attack at the end of Legion, by the way? It seems like they instantly knew what he was up to.

They were trapped in Antorus, they probably heard about it. Or Magni informed them while we were fighting Aggramar.

[Woggmer]

Which is why people want a revamp or even a sequel so we can re-explore.
Also why a Black Empire or War of the Ancients or Emerald Dream would have worked well. Essentially an entire Azeroth-sized unknown area to explore.
Hell, as much as I don't like the idea of Ny'alotha being a weird dream version of Azeroth instead of some spooky place we visit, it could have also been an Azeroth sized area that has a new feel but requires fewer resources than a completely new planet.

A revamp seems better, especially since it would be a nice idea to how much has changed... if towns have gotten bigger, stayed the same, or got destroyed.
Like we know Southshore is getting repaired and operable again, but then you have Lakeshire which we don't know if it's still left standing after the Scourge's attack.

Though if a revamp were to happen and Blizz picked between Kalimdor or Eastern Kingdoms to give it more focus.. I would bet on it being the Eastern Kingdoms due to the potential plot threads that we currently know... Whereas with Kalimdor, it'll be difficult for the Night Elves to be more involved if their forces are so divided by continents... and even then the Horde would need to deal with SOMETHING.. be it Botani, Saberon, or whatever...

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I think the difference is, Cho vs Dragonscale Expedition which Cho wins in a landslide.

Agreed, and also Harrison Jones. (I don't care if he is a rip-off of Indiana Jones, he's still just as cool.)

[Jaggler]

Man i really wish they would just end the whole Cosmic stuff and go back to simpler more , it felt way more personal and more interesting :/ To me the whole Life/Order/Death Cosmic stuff should have been always in the background of lore being this mysterious thing what was just mentioned here and there

DF is pretty non-cosmic we have been to the emerald dream several times already. And most hints at agrander cosmic storyline like the Elun'Ahir stuff is dealt with in background lore books. We are only dealing with very close "Azerothian" threats.

Of course a Revamp would be great, and with the assets in the files, i am sure Blizz is working on it in the background, but i think they want to do it justice and it a massive project. I am fine with exploring new places in Azeroth, while the revamp is in progress. I just don't want to travel to the life-, order- or voidlands anytime soon

[Wangming]

And we want an update to the stories too, the bread and butter of Azeroth are really the Eastern kingdoms.

Then it's night elf land in kalimdor/broken isles, and Undead land in Northrend.- added later in WC3.

This are waht frame all the playable races, so as much as you go to new continenets and lands etc people want to go through these again in a new light, with new events, updates and continuations to their favourite lands and their peoples

Yeah and I would commit war crimes to get an expansion that is Northern EK. A revamped Quel Thalas not stuck in the past. A somewhat habitable Lordaeron with an updated Forsaken capital that has actual Forsaken architecture not just sewers (and spider mounts to replace dead horses). And Gilneas.

But that is not what the leaks are pointing towards for this expansion.

We are looking at a place called Avaloren that Titan expeditions didn't return from, but the Nightsquall did.
We are looking at a storm covered far away land dragons don't return from that is likely the same as Avaloren
We are looking at Kaz'algar filled with weirdly dwarflike earthen that study a fissure.
We are looking at a hole that is filled by the roots of a world tree that was plucked from the ground before it could get tainted. Might be same as the one before.
We are looking at a fifth old god.

I mean there are speculations that the sword will be removed and Silithus caves in. And well Un'Goro did have a corrupted world tree in the Nightmare so it would also make some sort of sense.

But none of this has Eastern Kingdom written all over it.
And while it is definitely possible that not everything was leaked and there is soo much more, I'm kinda hoping for an expansion that isn't all over the place.

[Paperfox]

Man i really wish they would just end the whole Cosmic stuff and go back to simpler more , it felt way more personal and more interesting :/ To me the whole Life/Order/Death Cosmic stuff should have been always in the background of lore being this mysterious thing what was just mentioned here and there

This has been going one since the beginning, each expansion needs to have a Big Bad who is Bigger and Badder than the one before. I agree with you, the endless procession of Big Bads is starting to look like they're coming out of the same factory.

On the other hand, if you run an old dungeon, you can easily do over 10 million damage to a mob. Not to many regular folks have that kind of health pool.

[Wangming]

Honestly I would have done a Nyalotha/Black Empire expansion . . .quite like they did 8.3. I'd have picked 5-6 zones which could be tied to the Black Empire plot, fully updated them visually and have new questlines placed there with Visions being the main mechanic of the expansion. So stretch 8.3 into a full expac.
.

Yes. That would have been a lot better than what we got.

[Shadowferal]

Man i really wish they would just end the whole Cosmic stuff and go back to simpler more , it felt way more personal and more interesting :/ To me the whole Life/Order/Death Cosmic stuff should have been always in the background of lore being this mysterious thing what was just mentioned here and there

There were plenty of ideas that could have kept the ground game going, and even going in different directions. Hell, they could've blatantly ripped ideas from other games or even certain forums.

[Raetary]

You accept the shitty writing.
I don't.

So, you don't have an actual answer then?

Got it.

To be fair, with the Pantheon alive and well at the Sea of the Pantheon, and several of their Keepers and facilities on Azeroth active, I don't see why wouldn't be informed with everything going on. Illidan has probably told them a lot as well.

Do we know how they knew about Sargeras' attack at the end of Legion, by the way? It seems like they instantly knew what he was up to.

Algalon had to send them the equivalent of an e-mail back in wrath to inform them about Reorigination.
Unless someone actively feeds them information, i don't see why they would know.

And that's assuming they have the time to read their mailbox while containing Garry.

Illidans knowledge only extends to his own time on Azeroth.
Most of which he spent imprisoned.

I doubt anyone had the time to brief him on Titan or Old God backgrounds, let alone that he had an interest in that.
And he certainly won't know about the events between BC-Legion and Legion-now.

[Shadowferal]

So, you don't have an actual answer then?

There's no reasonable way to rebut nonsensical writing that an opposing argument readily accepts as "canon."

[Samin]

Although I find it hard to believe that night elves would never have been able to go there during the height of their empire.

Just because they never did doesn't mean they weren't able to. They weren't exactly prolific explorers or what they explored was more of magical nature than new locations and even for some adventurous spirit, Kalimdor had more than enough to offer.

Of course, that's on a societal level. There's still room for individuals or small groups to have a greater interest in exploration and they maybe went there on their own (but possibly couldn't come back to report on it) - so the hypothetical new continent could totally have some old night elf-ish ruins. Or maybe even a parallel society of night elves who are obviously mortal enemies with the not-dwarven-earthen parallel dwarf society that live there. Basically Avaloren is just WoW's even more generic fantasy land.

[Raetary]

Whatever happens next, i hope they return to scenarios for main story quests.

I know i said it before, but doing the campaign quests and being surrounded by randos that spamm chat is a terrible experience.
Or having to compete for mob tags, or having to wait for the boss mobs to respawn.

[Nymrohd]

Whatever happens next, i hope they return to scenarios for main story quests.

I know i said it before, but doing the campaign quests and being surrounded by randos that spamm chat is a terrible experience.
Or having to compete for mob tags, or having to wait for the boss mobs to respawn.

If I may add to that, add scenarios and find a way to make them replayable. THe culmination of a storyline should be epic. Find a way to make it go beyond story, add gameplay to it and make it replayable so people can experience the best moments of the questing experience as often as they want.

[Wangming]

Come to think of it, are we assuming the earthen at Khaz Algar travelled there through underground tunnels? Because otherwise I don't see how Khaz Algar could be a separate continent from Kalimdor. They would either have travelled by other means than walking across the land, or Khaz Algar would need to be one of the fragment continents that were originally part of Ancient Kalimdor.

isn't it sort of confirmed by in-game books that there are areas that never were parts of ancient Kalimdor? Like Avaloren?

Although if Titanic expeditions can't get there, it is hard to believe Earthen got there. Hmmmm.

Maybe they got there with those storm-riding mounts. And they became heretics later because of the fissure.