Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Wangming]

Its lazy. It isn't necessarily bad. I would actually take zero issue with the treadmill as a concept if they did a good job of at least catching people up. ESO is bad about this too, so is Final Fantasy. Guild Wars 2 is a different kind of game though.

ESO had to follow a player made chronological quest order chart for most things it helped WONDERS in making the game enjoyable too.
FFXIV knows the average MMO player is a crack addict and doesn't give the player a choice. They either start from the beginning or they don't play. (Admirable tbh)
WoW is unplayable like ESO. There is no reward besides achievements for doing a chronological run of the game and you can't even properly do a run like that even if you want to BECAUSE of Cataclysm. Some really simple changes could drastically change how confusing WoW is to a new player, instead Blizzard just lazily slaps on Party Sync/Chromie Time for people who probably already played the fucking game and tells New Players to start 5 years back IRL and 12 years into the games entire story with ZERO lore primers or stories. Its inexcusably bad.

Can't comment on ESO or GW2 as I haven't gotten that far in either.
In FFXIV at least they establish very early on the Ascians this shadowy cult that likes to run the show from behind the scenes. And they remained the actual big bads until....well the mid point of Endwalker really. And the new threat was set up in Shadowbringers.
For SWTOR for most of its run the big bad was Vitiate.
As for WoW....can you even do a semi full run without chromie time or you absolutely need it for the starting points of each expansion?

[Zers Editor]

Despite the book portraying Aman-Thul as the zealous bad guy, it seems like he was probably 100% right here.

I mean, the book itself says that the details of this legend vary, so it's a lot more likely that this is a Life-biased version.

[Nymrohd]

I think at this point its pretty well established that the worst cinematics in Modern WoW have the best gameplay. MoP and Dragonflight both have boring as hell Cinematics but killer gameplay...obviously Legion is the exception. Possibly WoD too because it just didnt have enough...what was there was fun.

Eh, Garrosh vs Taran Zhu is excellent. The Thunder King patch trailer was amazing.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Arfus the dog is in both Classic and Retail I believe. It's probably that.

From user called "Blizzlee" wowhead comment
"They just updated the BlizzCon 2023 playlist on YouTube. The hidden video in the playlist is more than likely the BlizzCon Collection bundle advertisement for Thursday's promotion."
https://i.imgur.com/Hl23gAL.png

[Paula Deen]

Can't comment on ESO or GW2 as I haven't gotten that far in either.
In FFXIV at least they establish very early on the Ascians this shadowy cult that likes to run the show from behind the scenes. And they remained the actual big bads until....well the mid point of Endwalker really. And the new threat was set up in Shadowbringers.

Guild Wars 2, atleast the last time I played it, had a very well thought out interface for replaying older content to allow you to refresh yourself or enjoy it if you were not around for it. It was, as I recall, and it has been some years, robust enough that you could without using an external source gauge a chronological order. I think ESO could improve but its main point and design is around the questing and visiting and doing all the things, unlike WoW, so its acceptable how it is handled. I think FFXIV, what little i did play, did it well enough.

For SWTOR for most of its run the big bad was Vitiate.

I can't fully speak to this as I have not played it but from what I have heard SWTORs bigger issue is that it allows you to play as things like Soldiers and Bounty Hunters then eventually just fucks off including them in anything and expects even those characters to be sitting on Thrones as rulers...which is bonkers in a world where Vitiate exists LMAO.

As for WoW....can you even do a semi full run without chromie time or you absolutely need it for the starting points of each expansion?

So I leveled from scratch no heirlooms or buffs right before 10.0 came out. I did a Dwarf Monk. In order to get a cohesive story I had to do it in 'Mega Zone' format. I leveled him through all of Khaz Modan and SL. It was honestly extremely close to being the perfect amount of EXP, I only did the dungeons present in those zones too.

Eh, Garrosh vs Taran Zhu is excellent. The Thunder King patch trailer was amazing.

I specifically meant launch cinematics. Without very rare exception pretty much every patch cinematic has been well received.

[Reive]

I think at this point its pretty well established that the worst cinematics in Modern WoW have the best gameplay. MoP and Dragonflight both have boring as hell Cinematics but killer gameplay...obviously Legion is the exception. Possibly WoD too because it just didnt have enough...what was there was fun.

yeah no lol mop mogs dragonflight in both cinematics and gameplay

[Wangming]

Eh, Garrosh vs Taran Zhu is excellent. The Thunder King patch trailer was amazing.

She was referring to the opening CGI cinematic. I still don't agree though, but that's a different matter.

[Ersula]

Despite the book portraying Aman-Thul as the zealous bad guy, it seems like he was probably 100% right here.

Without the world trees Archimonde would have won the third war.

[Redwyrm]

Its lazy. It isn't necessarily bad. [snip]

Agreed. Unfortunately WoW is trying to cater to a few distinct groups of players. And after 19+ years of game lore it's tough to balance the goals of each group and leave each satisfied. Blizzard got scared when the player levels reached over 100. It's a daunting number for new players. And if you are buying the game for the first time you don't want to be stuck killing boars in Elwynn Forest when you were promised on the box to be in Dragonflight or whatever the last expansion happens to be. So, Blizzard condensed the leveling several times. But this makes it difficult and confusing for new players who are playing for the great questlines and lore still available in every part of Azeroth. I wonder how many players will never experience the Linken quest in Un'goro. Or the Pamela Redpath quest chain in Eastern Plaguelands.

I almost wish Blizzard would introduce a highlight reel of great quests on the Boards in the capital cities. They would go in order based on old level requirements of the greatest quest chains that shouldn't be missed. Mobs and equipment scaled to your level. You could string them together. Once you complete a quest chain you are ported back to the capital city to pick up the next in the list (or hit a "play all" button and get ported from one quest chain to the next as you complete them).

[Reive]

"Why do we fight? To protect Home, and Family... To preserve Balance, and bring Harmony
For my kind, the true question is: What is worth fighting for?"

vs

random dialogue and stony tony

[Wangming]

Guild Wars 2, atleast the last time I played it, had a very well thought out interface for replaying older content to allow you to refresh yourself or enjoy it if you were not around for it. It was, as I recall, and it has been some years, robust enough that you could without using an external source gauge a chronological order. I think ESO could improve but its main point and design is around the questing and visiting and doing all the things, unlike WoW, so its acceptable how it is handled. I think FFXIV, what little i did play, did it well enough.

Oh FFIXV has New Game+ where you can replay the older main scenario. No XP or reward, but if you need a refresher you can do that.

I can't fully speak to this as I have not played it but from what I have heard SWTORs bigger issue is that it allows you to play as things like Soldiers and Bounty Hunters then eventually just fucks off including them in anything and expects even those characters to be sitting on Thrones as rulers...which is bonkers in a world where Vitiate exists LMAO.

Indeed that is true. For the leveling experience you have class stories. After that not so much. And in KOTFE and KOTET it doesn't even matter if you are Empire or Republic. That's fucking terrible. But it doesn't have the specific problem of power creep from ever stronger mystery villains. At least.

So I leveled from scratch no heirlooms or buffs right before 10.0 came out. I did a Dwarf Monk. In order to get a cohesive story I had to do it in 'Mega Zone' format. I leveled him through all of Khaz Modan and SL. It was honestly extremely close to being the perfect amount of EXP, I only did the dungeons present in those zones too.

What I meant with the last point is that you can't just fore example fly to the Broken Isles and start the Legion story, can you? You have to chromie and pick up the starting quest in your capital, right? Or am I dumb?

[Helothar]

It's possible, but after those books were found, I'd be surprised if it's not about Eonar hiding Elun'ahir's survival from Aman'Thul. That whole scenario fits several whispers perfectly which seem to indicate that her decision backfires horribly with the Old Gods corrupting the roots.

"Her heart is a crater and we have filled it"- There's now a literal crater representing Eonar's love for Elune, likely corrupted by the Void

"Deeper, deeper its roots will reach. Welcoming our embrace."- self-explanatory

Despite the book portraying Aman-Thul as the zealous bad guy, it seems like he was probably 100% right here.

Damn, I love this interpretation!

[Paula Deen]

"Why do we fight? To protect Home, and Family... To preserve Balance, and bring Harmony
For my kind, the true question is: What is worth fighting for?"

vs

random dialogue and stony tony

In context, I do fully respect both cinematics and love them even, more than Legion and BFA and SL, but that is a bit disingenuous as a characterization of either?

Panda Man says philosophical quote while random Orc and Human Fight

vs

Dragon narrates her return to her home over Random Stone Man climbing molten rock tower

Both have very similar basis in style and substance when you try really hard to minimize the impact of characterization of those present.

[Wangming]

"Why do we fight? To protect Home, and Family... To preserve Balance, and bring Harmony
For my kind, the true question is: What is worth fighting for?"

vs

random dialogue and stony tony

Plus it was literally an orc fighting a human. Literally WarCraft: Orcs vs Humans.
Until a famous WCIII character came. So yeah. It was very warcraft and had both naval and melee combat.

[Raetary]

Despite the book portraying Aman-Thul as the zealous bad guy, it seems like he was probably 100% right here.

Was he thought?
As i see it, its his own fault.

They could've very well enacted some order over the tree, containing and maintaining it the same way they do the dream.
Instead he went out of his way to hurt Azeroth (again, this time deliberately), breaking the trust of a fellow titan and leaving the planet with an open backdoor for any power to crawl in and corrupt.

And all because he got angry.

[Paula Deen]

What I meant with the last point is that you can't just fore example fly to the Broken Isles and start the Legion story, can you? You have to chromie and pick up the starting quest in your capital, right? Or am I dumb?

Oh no. You cannot. You have to start Chromie Time to even get anything to scale. I get you.

[Murlocos]

Anduin as a character should be so good, but BfA completely fucked his character.
The version of Anduin we saw in Legion was one of the best characters the game has had in years.
Even if it was just a brief questline, having him grapple with his pacifist ways clashing with an existential threat made for some prime drama.

Hopefully once Anduin returns from wherever we can have the writers give him some actual good storylines. His relationship with the light is absolutely a fruitful well for the story to draw from.

The problem that WoW's always suffered from is that those clash of ideals and strong personalities is what's made the best characters interesting, but then the problems get completely resolved and the strife that made for good storytelling is gone.

Anduin's at his best when he, an agent of compromise, is up against someone with an unbending will and less scrupulous morality. The problem is that now Anduin is just good at everything and his flaws don't really matter because Jaina and Genn and Shaw and whoever else will cover for them.

Credit where it's due since I've been negative lately, I think the concept of a human/Stormwind storyline around fighting the corruption of the nobility they hinted at in the heritage epilogue has so much potential if they chose to fully explore it. It's the perfect place to make Anduin interesting again: an environment where he has to contend with duplicitous politicians that have decades more experience than him working the system that would be more than eager to abuse his goodwill. It's a narrative layup for a storyline that can't just be resolved by the player's crew of faction leader friends going around personally interrogating and beating everyone evil up.

But that relies on them being willing to show Anduin as flawed and not just the perfect leader from the outset.

[Lady Atia]

the same way Darian wasn’t the weirder of the ashbringer in classic, the game lets you have it but when it comes to the actual canon you never did and it was her getting it instead.

I haven’t done every SL quest on multiple characters but I don’t believe they ever mention a death lord unless you are a DK and in that case you are just taking the place for gameplay purposes just like with the ashbringer.

- - - Updated - - -



Could you link said interview then?

No? It was some random interview, and I know what I read. If you doubt me try to use google lol.

[Paula Deen]

The problem that WoW's always suffered from is that those clash of ideals and strong personalities is what's made the best characters interesting, but then the problems get completely resolved and the strife that made for good storytelling is gone.

Anduin's at his best when he, an agent of compromise, is up against someone with an unbending will and less scrupulous morality. The problem is that now Anduin is just good at everything and his flaws don't really matter because Jaina and Genn and Shaw and whoever else will cover for them.

I actually think Anduin's main strength isn't even his character, its super generic lmao. Its his character progression. He moved up as we players did which is really unique in WoW....he and Thrall seem to be the only two characters that actually age.

[flan1337]

not sure if mentioned but:

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com...october-9-2023

This week in wow got buried with the wrath classic stuff.
October 10
>(Event) Wrath Classic: Fall of the Lich King Goes Live
>(Event) Dragonflight Dungeon Bonus Event
>(Event) PvP Brawl: Temple of Hotmogu
>(Event) Turbulent Timeways: Legion Timewalking
October 12
>(Event) Wrath Classic: Icecrown Citadel Opens
>(Promotion) New Promotion
October 13
>(Article) Blues News
October 14
>(Event) The Great Gnomeregan Run

Nothing really jumping out but the new promotion is interesting I guess but most likely a wrath classic event.