Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Zers Editor]

They foreshadowed her turning against Tyr, not necessarily getting corrupted.

No. The "betrayal" implies acting against their duty/against Order, not against someone specific.
This is the only factor that is shareable with all of the Aspects in that vision.

Neltharion - corrupted by the Old Gods; no need to go into detail with him.
Malygos - no betrayal intended; he tried to purge the world of mortal magic users, which is against Order.
Ysera - was essentially brain-washed by Xavius; no actual consent came from her in that regard, but she still did things that go against her role.
Nozdormu - since the current timeline now requires Eternus to be completely intact, Nozdormu HAS to become Dornozmu for the Infinite flight (and thus Eternus) to exist.

At 75% they turn into their fully-corrupted versions. Alexstrasza doesn't, because she won't actually become corrupted, but Tyr won't notice it.
More likely that he'll view Alexstrasza with her choices (Vyranoth, the rebels, the Tree power-up) as getting close to her corruption.
He will probably try to kill her, and we'll have to stop him.

[Santandame]

I'm kinda glad I'm not the only one.
Say what you will about the actual expansion, but the actual leak thread for BfA was a fucking riot. I loved it. This one is pretty mid so far.

Pre BfA was peak leak season which was capped off with the most incredible expansion announcement we’ve had. As much as I enjoyed BfA (it’s actually my 3rd favourite expansion, bring out the pitchforks) it’s such a shame it didn’t end up reaching the heights it could and should have.

[vintage79]

For me, DF lacks a standout raid. The two we got so far were average. I hope Amirdrassil can be it. Every other expac had at least one standout raid, many had two.

Exactly - now you can clearly see that it is an expansion with scraped tiers/parts - which when put together looks like a circus. Nothing worth remembering - no main raid tier dat loook like SoO /e.g. remastered Cavern of time and a great raid with Nozdormu / Galakrond etc.


and about leaks..

I like the increasing effort puted into these leaks

11.0 by blizz:
Some land / zone hanging in the air like kothria /throne of 4 winds, ZERO new races/classes /more meme augment specs for other classes, meme-revamp of 2-3 zones (upscaled moobs yada yada, not even close to real revamp) - enjoy ur Next Expansion....

[Helothar]

I'm almost 100% certain it will release in August/September.

This somehow makes sense, and also it doesn't.

It makes sense for them to rush it out as the game is E-M-P-T-Y, and they need the numbers back on track. According to most signs they're pulling a WoD on this expac (which I support 'cause I effing hate DF and am still hoping the next epac could offer me something enjoyable despite the potential theme not being my cup of tea).

But also it doesn't make any sense at all not to align something major like--considering Metzen's back and they hired 200 employees for WoW--a potentially extraordinary expansion's release with the 20th anniversary of WoW, it's like shooting yourself in the foot.

[Wangming]

Pre BfA was peak leak season which was capped off with the most incredible expansion announcement we’ve had. As much as I enjoyed BfA (it’s actually my 3rd favourite expansion, bring out the pitchforks) it’s such a shame it didn’t end up reaching the heights it could and should have.

You know what I hate most about BfA? It was a few bad decisions away from being phenomenal.

- - - Updated - - -

This somehow makes sense, and also it doesn't.

It makes sense for them to rush it out as the game is E-M-P-T-Y, and they need the numbers back on track. According to most signs they're pulling a WoD on this expac

Imagine pulling an emergency exit from the "sorry we fucked up SL" expansion.

[vintage79]

You know what I hate most about BfA? It was a few bad decisions away from being phenomenal.

beta for azeroth till .2 patch / great, but not developed ideas:

WarFronts - cool af - but only boring pve meme /afk (2 Warfront [atleast] SCRAPPED) BIG PVP WARFRONT WHERE
N'Zonth Visions - cool af (done over 800 of them) but only ogri and Sw (rumors about other main cities scrapped again)
Heart of Azeroth - cool af (---aded abit late to the game but still cool)
Corruptions - fine
Gear with azerithe power? - debatable, but it worked f.i.n.e instead of tier sets
also
Isle Expeditions - cool af -but not developed futher again (rumors about scrapped raids in this theme)

Cool zones /cool raids

[NikolaiShade]

beta for azeroth till .2 patch / great, but not developed ideas:

WarFronts - cool af - but only boring pve meme /afk (2 Warfront [atleast] SCRAPPED) BIG PVP WARFRONT WHERE
N'Zonth Visions - cool af (done over 800 of them) but only ogri and Sw (rumors about other main cities scrapped again)
Heart of Azeroth - cool af (---aded abit late to the game but still cool)
Corruptions - fine
Gear with azerithe power? - debatable, but it worked f.i.n.e instead of tier sets

Cool zones /cool raids

Corruptions and azerite armor are imho the greatest sins of BfA, then add scrapped content and one of the worst stories we ever got

Edit: and you know what's worst, the Heart of Azeroth. They got the idea of a spec-agnostic gear piece to replace artifact weapons and they underused it, criminally I dare say. They could have made "relics" (they got essences then), cosmetics, customizations tied to old and new content and instead they did nothing.

Edit 2: and don't get me started on Islands

[Sondrelk]

You know what I hate most about BfA? It was a few bad decisions away from being phenomenal.

Those choices were pretty inherent to what we had though. Azerite Armor needed a complete rethink, or scrapping entirely in favor of the essence system we got in 8.2. Both Islands and Warfronts were designed inherently wrong in that Islands were designed around PvP, and Warfronts were designed around 30 players. The story similary needed to be rewritten almost from the ground up if you wanted to make it work. And the start of the expansion and the end of the expansion were so incongrous that you would have needed to fully change one of them. Either remove the faction war and make it entirely South Seas/Naga, with Old Gods. Or remove 8.3 and make a faction war themed finale instead.

Still. BfA is definitely the expansion that by far had the most potential to start out with. Shame it wasted all of them.

[Nymrohd]

You know what I hate most about BfA? It was a few bad decisions away from being phenomenal.

The amount of effort that went into BfA was insane. It matched the effort of Legion and that's despite how much content late Legion had. I cannot imagine the amount of work that went into getting those two expacs back to back.

[vintage79]

like I said its- debatable - but in (some form) i liked diffrent type on conent to do instead of raids / m+ with a reward futher icreasing my char power - (visions->azerite powers) funny how BFA story was (back then) and now its still 10x more better than DF hahahah

[Sondrelk]

Imagine pulling an emergency exit from the "sorry we fucked up SL" expansion.

I can only see it working if the lack of 10.3 is framed as a final fix to the ever pushed back expansion launches. Finally bringing us back to a late summer release, rather than an early winter one. Having an expansion start right as people are gearing up to take a long break to celebrate the holidays is hardly a winning strategy.

I would expect them to not pull any punches in making 11.0 seem incredible though, if they want any chance at removing the taint of "failed expansion" that will haunt DF forever. And DF 2.0 with Dragons replaced with Dwarves doesnt seem to be that just yet.

[NikolaiShade]

Those choices were pretty inherent to what we had though. Azerite Armor needed a complete rethink, or scrapping entirely in favor of the essence system we got in 8.2. Both Islands and Warfronts were designed inherently wrong in that Islands were designed around PvP, and Warfronts were designed around 30 players. The story similary needed to be rewritten almost from the ground up if you wanted to make it work. And the start of the expansion and the end of the expansion were so incongrous that you would have needed to fully change one of them. Either remove the faction war and make it entirely South Seas/Naga, with Old Gods. Or remove 8.3 and make a faction war themed finale instead.

Still. BfA is definitely the expansion that by far had the most potential to start out with. Shame it wasted all of them.

The story of BfA could have worked if you introduced a bipartisan group of cultists of n'zoth as instigators of the war. Sylvanas simply takes advantage of the war to feed the maw.

[Wangming]

Corruptions and azerite armor are imho the greatest sins of BfA, then add scrapped content and one of the worst stories we ever got

Like I said, there were bad decisions. But we also had two awesome continents, nice new races, a ton of new features and in-game CGI cinematics.
There was a lot of potential there.
Yes, the story was terrible, but a lot of parts could have had easy fixes. Like Switching up Lordaeron and Teldrassil.

[Skildar]

I've rarely found raids to be great, I have a few that I think are amazing but in the whole wow history, that's not a lot. Namely :
MoP - Throne of Thunder
WoD - Blackrock Foundry
BfA - Battle for Dazar'Alor
Shadowlands - Castle Nathria

I have a special place for WoD - Highmaul Citadel in my heart but it's just the settings and the music that are amazing, mechanically the raid is quite weak (RISE MOUNTAIN !)

This expansion had some mechanically and visually good raids but nothing that stood out as amazing. Vault of thr incarnates is a strong raid in my opinion even if their decision to dhare mechanics between a few bosses is surprising.

I think the whole debate over quantity of raids, dungeons and patches is kind of moot because we already know the answer to this. If quality of the expac was great, the complaint over quantity would be minimal. It's not great and if that's the quality they're aiming for then higher quantity is definitely worth asking for

[Wangming]

The story of BfA could have worked if you introduced a bipartisan group of cultists of n'zoth as instigators of the war. Sylvanas simply takes advantasge of the war to feed the maw and you got yourself a better story

Or that, yes. Same how the Twilight Hammer implicated Garrosh in a Druid Massacre in the Shattering novel.

[Woggmer]

No. The "betrayal" implies acting against their duty/against Order, not against someone specific.
This is the only factor that is shareable with all of the Aspects in that vision.

Neltharion - corrupted by the Old Gods; no need to go into detail with him.
Malygos - no betrayal intended; he tried to purge the world of mortal magic users, which is against Order.
Ysera - was essentially brain-washed by Xavius; no actual consent came from her in that regard, but she still did things that go against her role.
Nozdormu - since the current timeline now requires Eternus to be completely intact, Nozdormu HAS to become Dornozmu for the Infinite flight (and thus Eternus) to exist.

At 75% they turn into their fully-corrupted versions. Alexstrasza doesn't, because she won't actually become corrupted, but Tyr won't notice it.
More likely that he'll view Alexstrasza with her choices (Vyranoth, the rebels, the Tree power-up) as getting close to her corruption.
He will probably try to kill her, and we'll have to stop him.

Except we don't know anything about Tyr aside from his few memories and legends woven about him, but I don't think he'd go hostile towards Alexstraza over something like Vyranoth. Even in the memory when he sees all the aspects turn against him, he doesn't seem to care nor worry that he'll get betrayed.

If it were Odyn, on the other hand, yeah he would definitely kill Vyranoth and the other aspects if it meant to keep Order in place.

[Sondrelk]

Corruptions and azerite armor are imho the greatest sins of BfA, then add scrapped content and one of the worst stories we ever got

Edit: and you know what's worst, the Heart of Azeroth. They got the idea of a spec-agnostic gear piece to replace artifact weapons and they underused it, criminally I dare say. They could have made "relics" (they got essences then), cosmetics, customizations tied to old and new content and instead they did nothing.

Edit 2: and don't get me started on Islands

Azerite armor in hindsight feels like a solution to a problem the devs created themselves when they didnt have anything good to attach to the neck.
They wanted Artifacts 2.0, except without the issues of limited weapon mogs and talent tree attached ot weapons. But didnt have anything to actually replace it with that really worked.
Essences were the thing it needed, but were added far too late to change anything.

- - - Updated - - -

The story of BfA could have worked if you introduced a bipartisan group of cultists of n'zoth as instigators of the war. Sylvanas simply takes advantage of the war to feed the maw.

Exactly. There is no link between Teldrassil burning and killing N'zoth that makes it feel like they are linked at all. Like I said many times, it's like if Legion ended with 8.2 and defeating Azshara.
Every expansion needs the ending to feel like it has all been building towards it. Even WoD managed that with Archimonde by having Gul'dan corrupt the orcs.

[NikolaiShade]

Azerite armor in hindsight feels like a solution to a problem the devs created themselves when they didnt have anything good to attach to the neck.
They wanted Artifacts 2.0, except without the issues of limited weapon mogs and talent tree attached ot weapons. But didnt have anything to actually replace it with that really worked.
Essences were the thing it needed, but were added far too late to change anything.

But they had relics and the forge from legion as ideas. If they had the idea of azerite armor they could have used it on the neck: three slots, one active and two passives, and relics you get from activities. Really I can't believe noone had this idea during the development of BfA

[Sondrelk]

I've rarely found raids to be great, I have a few that I think are amazing but in the whole wow history, that's not a lot. Namely :
MoP - Throne of Thunder
WoD - Blackrock Foundry
BfA - Battle for Dazar'Alor
Shadowlands - Castle Nathria

I have a special place for WoD - Highmaul Citadel in my heart but it's just the settings and the music that are amazing, mechanically the raid is quite weak (RISE MOUNTAIN !)

This expansion had some mechanically and visually good raids but nothing that stood out as amazing. Vault of thr incarnates is a strong raid in my opinion even if their decision to dhare mechanics between a few bosses is surprising.

I think the whole debate over quantity of raids, dungeons and patches is kind of moot because we already know the answer to this. If quality of the expac was great, the complaint over quantity would be minimal. It's not great and if that's the quality they're aiming for then higher quantity is definitely worth asking for

I will argue that it's unfair to say that until we have seen Amirdrassil though. It could be the incredible raid we have all been waiting for.

Until then though I will agree. Vault is especially boring. And feels more like a filler raid like Gruul's lair, or Mogu'shan Vaults.

[Woggmer]

Blizzard really, really needs to hit all the right notes with the announcement and I hope Metzen is proof that they will. I’m still convinced that major changes will happen due to the Microsoft acquisition that’s going to close on Friday, Gamepass and WoW in general. Totally can see them changing the model to annual expansion like TESO.

I would say that probably the biggest change for WoW would be they can work on an expansion without the ever looming fear of a deadline that the Activision side pushes. With Microsoft, they can have more freedom to be able to work on an expansion until it is ready for launch.

An annual expansion however? Nope. After trying to speedrun through WoD that ended up a bad idea.