Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[vintage79]

I think it's a bit stupid to ever equate Raids such as ToT, SoO, BT, ICC, BRF etc.
*(Huge raids set in the 'current' lore with remarkable end-game bosses)

with any 'present' ones

[Woggmer]

Dracthyr are very much an offshoot of the main plot. But Aberrus is a core theme, what with all the stuff about Neltharion and his legacy. Not sure what else the raid could have been?

If it has Void stuff involved, then wouldn't Iridikron be involved in the raid as well? I mean, I doubt we'd kill him but at least it would explain how he got that void artifact thing in the Dawn of the Infinites dungeon... especially if it was something that Neltharion kept hidden away.

It might not be how it would play out, but it would make some sense than Sarkareth being an idiot.

[Wangming]

I mean I think if we are going to have less time they just need to focus on A Plot delivery and making it satisfying in all aspects.

Cause yeah, the sideplot of Aberrus and the Drac'thyr literally died the moment everyone just went Scalies BAD after the announcement.

I mean literally nobody asked for playable dracthyr, so I dunno why they tried.
At least it showed they are willing to create a race that can't display gear properly, works just fine without mounting up and has access to only one class.
So I have to ask again: Playable Naga when?

[Makorus]

Aberrus is hardly a side raid though. It's about as integral to the plot as you can get in a Dragon themed expansion.

Beyond that though, you tend to need a side raid to give players a break from the main theme. Otherwise you risk burnout on a theme like what happened in Legion with fel and demons.

Nothing happens in Aberrus other than "Oh yeah, void still exists, I guess!".

I mean, we haven't even had a Dragon raid.

[Wangming]

Nothing happens in Aberrus other than "Oh yeah, void still exists, I guess!".

I mean, we haven't even had a Dragon raid.

Yeah if you told me that the final raid of the Dragon isles would be: "Druids of the Flame trying to burn down a tree inside the Emerald Dream" I would ask what the fuck you are smoking and where I can get some of it?

[Makorus]

It's probably why they made aug evoker ludicrously overpowered and are likely leaving it that way until 11.0; to put artifical pressure on people to play dracthyr

Outside of that barely anyone cares about them; it's no surprise they were quickly dropped plot wise

I won't ever play one until you can just use your humanoid visage at all times; I don't wanna play a scalie

Just outright wrong, lmao. That's 10.0.7.



This is 10.1 (before Augmentation)



They were popular enough already, and only becamse more popular after 10.1 fixed the rotation of Devastation.

[Therougetitan]

I mean literally nobody asked for playable dracthyr, so I dunno why they tried.
At least it showed they are willing to create a race that can't display gear properly, works just fine without mounting up and has access to only one class.
So I have to ask again: Playable Naga when?

Next expansion has Azshara in it if the Forbidden reach books are right so it would be a pretty good time for playable naga...

[Wangming]

Next expansion has Azshara in it if the Forbidden reach books are right so it would be a pretty good time for playable naga...

If that happens, I'm preordering. Not even joking.

[Nyel]

Yeah, I don't think this approach worked very well. Of course they need to seed future storylines, but Blizzard as always swings between extremes, and what we've gotten feels like a bunch of side stories spinning their wheels while in park. Very little satisfying happens in the moment. I think the black and bronze dragonflight stories were meant to be cathartic conclusions, but the former was always going to disappoint some of the audience (especially when they can't write Wrathion consistently), and the latter was a copout dud of a conclusion to a hyped story thread. Which to be fair is what Danuser does best.



I believe the issue is more with how Dragonflight is themed around each flight, which results in each story feeling like a side story tied to them. The Incarnates are the only real thing tying them all together, and that was the whole hype around the Vault ending and 10.0.7 cutscene: we need to fight the other Incarnates. So how did that turn out?

Iridikron left after a vague monologue for another expansion after being a dungeon boss.
Vyranoth did absolutely nothing at all and didn't even appear in-game until a sudden change of sides where she's relegated to a side quest character.
Fyrakk had a decent amount of screentime and is a fine pure evil baddie. He did his job.

10.2 doesn't feel like it's a real conclusion to the expansion and the threat of the Incarnates, it's just the end of the green dragonflight storyline and the night elf storyline from 2 expansions ago (hopefully). And if something with Tyr comes up in 10.2.5 or whatever that's meant to be the real conclusion, I guarantee you most people outside this forum or Reddit are going to have no idea what's going on because the Tyr storyline is just a bunch of renown-gated sidequests.

Yeah just wait until the Tyr storyline becomes a major plot point in the next expansion or the one after and 99% of the players are just like: what? Because this is exactly what’s going to happen when you lock all of the build up behind renown or just spread it out so much between patches. People simply lose track or stop to care. That’s why I said the narrative team needs to focus on less storylines and eventually start developing and finishing them properly.

[Makorus]

Yeah just wait until the Tyr storyline becomes a major plot point in the next expansion or the one after and 99% of the players are just like: what? Because this is exactly what’s going to happen when you lock all of the build up behind renown or just spread it out so much between patches. People simply lose track or stop to care. That’s why I said the narrative team needs to focus on less storylines and eventually start developing and finishing them properly.

The Tyr storyline really annoys me because conceptually its good, but the fact that it's we get like two quests with nothing happening every 2 months is a bit shit.

Something like the Defector Questline or the Blue Dragon questline was fine because it's self-contained and you can just do it.

[pacotaco]

No. The "betrayal" implies acting against their duty/against Order, not against someone specific.
This is the only factor that is shareable with all of the Aspects in that vision.

Neltharion - corrupted by the Old Gods; no need to go into detail with him.
Malygos - no betrayal intended; he tried to purge the world of mortal magic users, which is against Order.
Ysera - was essentially brain-washed by Xavius; no actual consent came from her in that regard, but she still did things that go against her role.
Nozdormu - since the current timeline now requires Eternus to be completely intact, Nozdormu HAS to become Dornozmu for the Infinite flight (and thus Eternus) to exist.

At 75% they turn into their fully-corrupted versions. Alexstrasza doesn't, because she won't actually become corrupted, but Tyr won't notice it.
More likely that he'll view Alexstrasza with her choices (Vyranoth, the rebels, the Tree power-up) as getting close to her corruption.
He will probably try to kill her, and we'll have to stop him.

They (both Koranos and Zakaj) specifically say they're all corrupted:
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tyr...ects_of_Zakajz

[Magistrate]

I think it's a bit stupid to ever equate Raids such as ToT, SoO, BT, ICC, BRF etc.
*(Huge raids set in the 'current' lore with remarkable end-game bosses)

with any 'present' ones

I still maintain that the suramar raid should be in the top ten. Epic final fight, tons of variations in bosses, and the multiple settings were really cool. It was the second raid I finished heroic on (pugging x.x) despite playing the game since wrath. I loved that raid.

[Nyel]

I still maintain that the suramar raid should be in the top ten. Epic final fight, tons of variations in bosses, and the multiple settings were really cool. It was the second raid I finished heroic on (pugging x.x) despite playing the game since wrath. I loved that raid.

This, Nighthold was a fantastic and diverse raid, for me the best in Legion by far.

[Shadochi]

If 10.2 truly is the last major patch, then this might be the first rea filler expansion we got (and I still hold hope it isn't).
All previous ones we called filler expacs basically had less content due to a cut major patch. But the patch cycle so far in DF indicates to me that cutting isn't the case.

And it also feels very filler enemy wise since basically then the whole point was to get Iridikron in the lore for a future plot.

And here I was holding hope that fated season would in the future just help with draught, not replace a patch (like 5 seasons,first 4 abt 5 months and fated is 4 months). I just don't think 10.2 and Fated will be enough to carry the expac for 12 months. In SL it was different since fated lasted only like 3-4 months, but SL still had a mid expansion draught (well 2 of them, after first 2 raids)

[pacotaco]

Except we don't know anything about Tyr aside from his few memories and legends woven about him, but I don't think he'd go hostile towards Alexstraza over something like Vyranoth. Even in the memory when he sees all the aspects turn against him, he doesn't seem to care nor worry that he'll get betrayed.

If it were Odyn, on the other hand, yeah he would definitely kill Vyranoth and the other aspects if it meant to keep Order in place.

Agree. We even see an Infinite Tyr when the timeline changes, pointing to him aligning with Murozon. That to me hints at him loving the dragons over his duty.

[Nebron]

I believe the issue is more with how Dragonflight is themed around each flight, which results in each story feeling like a side story tied to them. The Incarnates are the only real thing tying them all together, and that was the whole hype around the Vault ending and 10.0.7 cutscene: we need to fight the other Incarnates. So how did that turn out?

Iridikron left after a vague monologue for another expansion after being a dungeon boss.
Vyranoth did absolutely nothing at all and didn't even appear in-game until a sudden change of sides where she's relegated to a side quest character.
Fyrakk had a decent amount of screentime and is a fine pure evil baddie. He did his job.

10.2 doesn't feel like it's a real conclusion to the expansion and the threat of the Incarnates, it's just the end of the green dragonflight storyline and the night elf storyline from 2 expansions ago (hopefully). And if something with Tyr comes up in 10.2.5 or whatever that's meant to be the real conclusion, I guarantee you most people outside this forum or Reddit are going to have no idea what's going on because the Tyr storyline is just a bunch of renown-gated sidequests.

Oh, that's well synthesized. I have the same feeling about the narrative approach in this expansion. A series of half-measures that aspire to be a grand plotlines, while barely having an impactful conclusion. It's just too watered down and it's hard to grasp what exactly is the main theme. You may dislike the Cataclysm for what it was, but storywise it was pretty simple - shallow - but simple and easy to track.
In my personal opinion, the only time they were able to pull-off such fragmented storytelling was Pandaria - there was no clear goal, which eventually crystallized at the end, but the side-stories were cool enough and not overly bloated, so it held together pretty well.

Also, the cost of Dragonflight's story for me is that the Aspects lost their authority and became pretty much just... dragons. There's very little of daaaamn-factor effect in this expansion

[Nyel]

If 10.2 truly is the last major patch, then this might be the first rea filler expansion we got (and I still hold hope it isn't).
All previous ones we called filler expacs basically had less content due to a cut major patch. But the patch cycle so far in DF indicates to me that cutting isn't the case.

And it also feels very filler enemy wise since basically then the whole point was to get Iridikron in the lore for a future plot.

And here I was holding hope that fated season would in the future just help with draught, not replace a patch (like 5 seasons,first 4 abt 5 months and fated is 4 months). I just don't think 10.2 and Fated will be enough to carry the expac for 12 months. In SL it was different since fated lasted only like 3-4 months, but SL still had a mid expansion draught (well 2 of them, after first 2 raids)

Just expect the next expansion to release in August and the timeline with 10.2 being the last major content patch makes a lot of sense.

[Nebron]

If 10.2 truly is the last major patch, then this might be the first rea filler expansion we got (and I still hold hope it isn't).
All previous ones we called filler expacs basically had less content due to a cut major patch. But the patch cycle so far in DF indicates to me that cutting isn't the case.

And it also feels very filler enemy wise since basically then the whole point was to get Iridikron in the lore for a future plot.

And here I was holding hope that fated season would in the future just help with draught, not replace a patch (like 5 seasons,first 4 abt 5 months and fated is 4 months). I just don't think 10.2 and Fated will be enough to carry the expac for 12 months. In SL it was different since fated lasted only like 3-4 months, but SL still had a mid expansion draught (well 2 of them, after first 2 raids)

This is when filler 2-3 bosses raids come handy, like Trial of Valor and Crucible of Storms.
I am still pretty amazed that Dragonflight hadn't had it's Dragonflight's Sanctum counterpart. A single boss just for fun every 10.x.5 wouldn't do any harm, and could be pretty helpful to kill the boredom. As we've talked yesterday - re-used assets, 1 or 2 bosses for each Sanctum, and some funny / difficult old-school HARDMODE mechanics like Sartharion. Reward it with a cool title, mount, transmog or whatever and there you go

[Psilent]

Yeah if you told me that the final raid of the Dragon isles would be: "Druids of the Flame trying to burn down a tree inside the Emerald Dream" I would ask what the fuck you are smoking and where I can get some of it?

Haha, I basically said that to someone in Discord when they were shocked I didn't think 10.2 was the final patch. I told them I just didn't feel Druids of the Flame screamed final patch and while I like Fyrakk as a villain, he seems more like a mid expansion villain than end of expansion villain. Also from what I've seen from the PTR the final zone seems very lackluster.

I'm holding out hope we're getting a earlier than normal expansion release because I'm not looking forward to being in 10.2 for over a year and I'm not very thrilled at a Fated 2.0 with VotI and Abberus.. I didn't mind the raids, but they aren't raids I'm itching to get back into any time soon..

[Makorus]

Part of me is still clinging onto a 2-3 boss raid that ties into the Fated Mechanic and kinda sets up the next expansion.