Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Wangming]

I really don't think we're getting an underground expansion. By the time they were working on zaralek which they intended to be experimental they were simultaneously working on the next expansion. I'm sure we could get 1 underground zone but I will eat my hat if we get a whole expansion

Oh it will surely not be all underground. I persoannly expect an all over the place expansion in terms of themes and areas. Much like....well pretty much what we have been having since WoD.

[Pheraz]

Those long times before a big patch are mostly boring except when blizzard managed to create long time things to do such as warfronts and island expeditions. I find DF really lacks those things. Finished all races on gold in two evenings for EK cup. Races are awesome but sadly that's all casual content in DF. So I level my alt army in time walking dungeons because I just don't want to see or hear dragon islands anymore. @Kiriastrasza
So what I wanted to say is that those periods are normal. Soon servers will be full again especially after blizzcon and ED patch

[Raetary]

Btw, thought i'd bring this up:
https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/sta...66582296879354
https://altertime.es/nuevo-libro-de-...iembre-de-2023

Not anything new, but the dragons losing their fertility is still canon.
And the thing is written by Khadgar.

[Wangming]

And the thing is written by Khadgar.

Ah yes. The guy whose facial hair is so iconic in universe, a plant was named after it. Yet his updated model is clean shaven. Pfff

[Hitei]

I really don't think we're getting an underground expansion. By the time they were working on zaralek which they intended to be experimental they were simultaneously working on the next expansion. I'm sure we could get 1 underground zone but I will eat my hat if we get a whole expansion

Arguably the other way around. Developed the technology to potentially use in 11.0 and wanted to make sure it could function on live servers in place of loading screens so they tried it on a single zone that could be toggled to just loading screens without much trouble if it just didn't function.

Much like how a lot of times an expansion's new skeletal rigs get used at the end of the expansion prior.

[ZyntosAran]

Arguably the other way around. Developed the technology to potentially use in 11.0 and wanted to make sure it could function on live servers in place of loading screens so they tried it on a single zone that could be toggled to just loading screens without much trouble if it just didn't function.

Much like how a lot of times an expansion's new skeletal rigs get used at the end of the expansion prior.

The question is though. With how expansions are made in kinda parallel (they were not starting 11.0 only after bringing Zaralek on live), would they base a whole expansion on a feature they are not sure about if it will work out?

[NikolaiShade]

The question is though. With how expansions are made in kinda parallel (they were not starting 11.0 only after bringing Zaralek on live), would they base a whole expansion on a feature they are not sure about if it will work out?

More than how it will work out I would focus on how it is recieved. We have a series of options, it could be a single underground zone (and based on the "fissure" in Khaz Algar and the mount I would say it's almost certain), there could be many underground zone or all of theme. The real question is, our idea of "underground" is the same as Blizzard's? I could think of at least three/four biomes for underground zones, keeping them grounded in reality. If Blizzard decided to run some more fantasy ideas you could get an "underground" expansion in name only.

[Teriz]

"Gretchen, stop trying to make Undermine happen. It's not going to happen."

It’s doubtful that blizzard would do an underground expansion and not include probably the most well known and referenced underground area in the franchise.

[PaladinBash]

Deepholm was just a random place you teleport to in Cata and wasn't some extended land mass or adjacent area. Could be an underground zone like that with a similar enough mode of getting there. I personally loved Deepholm but I didn't like the Mole Hole. Lots of fond memories farming Elementium there the first week of Cata and single-handedly ruining my server's economy from doing it. The Mole Hole? Not so much.

Kinda crazy to imagine an entire expansion set up underground though. There's plenty of ways and means of getting in and out and shit you can do with it, that's not the issue, I just don't expect that myself. Even so, I don't see how anyone can really rule out a "hey there's X going on in Y place, here's a portal" because they do that shit all the time. Sure they use something more impressive than a portal some of the time but you get what I mean. They can have a visually (and geographically) different zone tied in narratively anywhere they feel like.

[Kiria]

I meeaaan...

In BfA, they gave you diaper gnome Island instead of Undermine, Nazjatar as a dry dock instead of a vast underwater realm, and Kul Tiras + Zandalar without including Tel'Abim, Plunder Isle, etc.

They love giving players what they want, but with a creative spin so large that in the end, players aren't really sure they got what they wanted.

Void Elves instead of High Elves, Kul Tiran instead of Vrykul, "Junker Gnomes" instead of true Mechagnomes, etc.

Pretty much this, just always feels like Blizz gives a compromise but instead of being the decent end of the compromise they give you the shitty end.

[Teriz]

I meeaaan...

In BfA, they gave you diaper gnome Island instead of Undermine, Nazjatar as a dry dock instead of a vast underwater realm, and Kul Tiras + Zandalar without including Tel'Abim, Plunder Isle, etc.

They love giving players what they want, but with a creative spin so large that in the end, players aren't really sure they got what they wanted.

Void Elves instead of High Elves, Kul Tiran instead of Vrykul, "Junker Gnomes" instead of true Mechagnomes, etc.

Well they gave us Mechagon because they were introducing Mechagnomes. Mechagon could be viewed as a precursor to how they'd do Undermine.

Nazjatar ended up the way it did because of how Vasjh'ir was received.

Tel'Abim and Plunder Isle probably weren't considered worth exploring at the time, and could be used for future expansions.

None of that is really my point though. My point is that if Blizzard is actually doing an underground expansion, it's doubtful they'd leave Undermine out of it, since it's probably the most well-known underground area in warcraft. Also Blizzard likes to anchor expansions in known/famous locations.

[Houle]

Btw, thought i'd bring this up:
https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/sta...66582296879354
https://altertime.es/nuevo-libro-de-...iembre-de-2023

Not anything new, but the dragons losing their fertility is still canon.
And the thing is written by Khadgar.

Blizzard on the title: "a DEFINITIVE guide"
Also Blizzard on the first page: "Take this with a grain of salt, it might just get completely retconned in 2 xpacs guys"

Dont you love how fckn scared they are of this ever since the "Chonicles is definitive canon" vs "Chronicles is just Titan POV" debacle lol

[Makorus]

In what world is the Undermine, a place only really mentioned in quest descriptions and item descriptions, a more well-known underground area than Azjol'nerub?

[Joszef Kiprich]

In what world is the Undermine, a place only really mentioned in quest descriptions and item descriptions, a more well-known underground area than Azjol'nerub?

We all know in who's world.

[Dismayxz]

I meeaaan...

In BfA, they gave you diaper gnome Island instead of Undermine, Nazjatar as a dry dock instead of a vast underwater realm, and Kul Tiras + Zandalar without including Tel'Abim, Plunder Isle, etc.

They love giving players what they want, but with a creative spin so large that in the end, players aren't really sure they got what they wanted.

Void Elves instead of High Elves, Kul Tiran instead of Vrykul, "Junker Gnomes" instead of true Mechagnomes, etc.

Did they though? Diaper Gnomes were a whole lot closer to doing Undermine on the whole other ass end of the map. They wanted something that can connect to Kul'tiras, since you physically fly there and can fly there. There's an argument to be made for either to have been the chosen zone, they just went with the one they already set up by having the mechagnome stuff around in Tiragarde.

Nazjatar had to be a dry dock. There were only two ways to give us Nazjatar proper - Do it like Vashj'ir or get rid of the one thing people hated about Vashj'ir - either physically being or physically feeling like an underwater zone, no 3d movement via new tech, where it just looks like you are underwater but honestly, you couldn't take off if you wanted to. And what do you do with flying mounts in that situation? Just let people 'fly' through the 'mock water' with their mounts? There was no way we'd ever have gotten the Nazjatar people wanted, because we already had an example of the Nazjatar people wanted and it's notoriously remembered as two specific things: Kinda beautiful, but fucking annoying to play in.

The creative spins don't always just happen because they want to creatively spin something into a new thing, there have been plenty of examples where it was just easier than coming up with new tech on the spot or there was already examples of people hating the base concept you'd have to base it on.

- - - Updated - - -

In what world is the Undermine, a place only really mentioned in quest descriptions and item descriptions, a more well-known underground area than Azjol'nerub?

Teriz's apparently? I've forgotten Undermine even existed before he brought it up initially. No point getting deep into the lore of comedic relief races.

[Teriz]

In what world is the Undermine, a place only really mentioned in quest descriptions and item descriptions, a more well-known underground area than Azjol'nerub?

In a world where Goblins are a much larger presence in the game world than Nerubians, and said Goblins mention Undermine constantly.

Also in a world where Undermine was intended to be a continent in vanilla.

[Dismayxz]

Well they gave us Mechagon because they were introducing Mechagnomes. Mechagon could be viewed as a precursor to how they'd do Undermine.

Nazjatar ended up the way it did because of how Vasjh'ir was received.

Tel'Abim and Plunder Isle probably weren't considered worth exploring at the time, and could be used for future expansions.

None of that is really my point though. My point is that if Blizzard is actually doing an underground expansion, it's doubtful they'd leave Undermine out of it, since it's probably the most well-known underground area in warcraft. Also Blizzard likes to anchor expansions in known/famous locations.

What exactly makes Undermine famous? There is a good chance that Gadgetzan and the floating racing boat in Thousand Needles are more known to the general playerbase with an interest in Lore, than Undermine ever will be. The place has been forgotten the moment Kezan got nuked.

[Woggmer]

In what world is the Undermine, a place only really mentioned in quest descriptions and item descriptions, a more well-known underground area than Azjol'nerub?

But if they do that, then they would have to fiddle around with Northrend in order to use that tech they mentioned. It'd be easier just to make Azjol'nerub an entire instanced zone (not a dungeon or a raid) for it to work.

And I'm not even sure if Anub'arak came back during the Shadowlands Pre-patch event like the other well-known bosses. If he did then there is a chance of seeing him and going into Azjol'Nerub... but it won't have enough weight unless Yogg Saron (somehow) survived and is living in the bottom of Azjol'Nerub... or if there's something else down there.

Though again, I don't fully believe we'll ever see go into Azjol'Nerub again... just like how they won't do the scrapped Drakkari raid that was planned.

[Teriz]

What exactly makes Undermine famous? There is a good chance that Gadgetzan and the floating racing boat in Thousand Needles are more known to the general playerbase with an interest in Lore, than Undermine ever will be. The place has been forgotten the moment Kezan got nuked.

Forgotten by who? Blizzard certainly didn't forget about it, because it's been mentioned multiple times since Cataclysm.

[Raetary]

since it's probably the most well-known underground area in warcraft.

Ironforge, Gnomeregan an Azjol-Nerub say hello.