Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Santandame]

That's been a problem with the Isles in general. I almost wonder if the original plan was for the Isles to have been in some sort of stasis, I think something to that effect was mentioned in an interview about the Djaradin. As is, they just went to sleep for.. reasons, and the Drakonids were apparently doing nothing for 10,000 years while leaving the place covered in ruins and abandoned settlements.

Pandaria (the direct comparison Blizzard themselves brings up) did a much better job of making the land feel progressed, with major threats contained to the far north and west with the eastern settlements thriving from the peace they enjoyed. I loved how the wall sectioning off the final two zones built up anticipation and intrigue, and by the Dread Wastes the comfy vibes were completely gone and all you had were tenuous mantid allies.

Northrend's the only continent that matched that sense of zone progression in my book.

Draenor could have been up there with Pandaria but made some odd choices, despite how much we loved the levelling.

I just don’t see why Nagrand had to be the final levelling zone, apart from the fact that it was Nagrand, the iconic zone from Outland so Blizz wanted to hold off on the players going there to build up anticipation whilst levelling.

I know the climax of the Garrosh storyline was there, but that’s something that could have been saved for a max level campaign. Garrosh should have been an antagonist that played the focal role within the campaign at max level for 6.0. The final cinematic with Thrall was great but that aside, Garrosh was dumped rather unceremoniously. He plays next to no role during the levelling, shows up in the very last quest in Nagrand, and is then killed by Thrall. It just felt like a waste considering he was the catalyst for the expansion.

In my mind Talador should have been the final zone. Prior to WoD launch it was said that Talador was the heart of the Iron Horde’s stronghold on Draenor. We should have skirted around the zone whilst levelling, with all attempts to break into the zone being pushed back. Eventually culminating in the battle for Shattrath, which should have happened on much larger scale than what we got.

[huth]

Dragon Isles definitely feels like they changed their minds on stasis halfway. The ruins and whatnot very much hint at everything being in stasis at least.

I can only imagine they changed it when they wrote the Centaur storyline, not considering how the details change because of it.

The tuskarr at least could just as easily be travellers from Northrend, and nothing would massively change.

The centaur also seem like the type who wouldn't do much with the ruins and they only exist on the very outskirts of their territory, though. Similar for the Tuskarr, there isn't a whole lot in their territory and they aren't the type to wander inland to much. Besides, they just lost quite a bit to the Gnolls, which are to disorganised to really amount to much.

So the main question would be what the Drakonids have been doing for those ten thousand years. Clearly not their jobs, at least outside of Thaldraszus.


On the other hand, it can't have been a total stasis. The cinematic hinges in no small part on erosion still being an ongoing process.

[Draedarr]

I didn't consider Chen a joke, myself. We had that keg quest in pre-Cata. So, I was one of the ones who believed we were getting a Pandaren/Pandaria expansion. But... I did not expect Pandaren to also be playable. That part was a surprise. There was a topic on this very site called Told You So something or other with people making predictions about that expansion reveal. People were making wild bets that it wouldn't be anything Pandaren-related, etc. It was pretty funny to read after the fact.

Yes, i was also one that didn't considered Chen a joke, and considering that it was a thematic region that we had not gone yet on WoW (with Chinese architecture and Kung Fu theme)

Draenor could have been up there with Pandaria but made some odd choices, despite how much we loved the levelling.

I just don’t see why Nagrand had to be the final levelling zone, apart from the fact that it was Nagrand, the iconic zone from Outland so Blizz wanted to hold off on the players going there to build up anticipation whilst levelling.

I know the climax of the Garrosh storyline was there, but that’s something that could have been saved for a max level campaign. Garrosh should have been an antagonist that played the focal role within the campaign at max level for 6.0. The final cinematic with Thrall was great but that aside, Garrosh was dumped rather unceremoniously. He plays next to no role during the levelling, shows up in the very last quest in Nagrand, and is then killed by Thrall. It just felt like a waste considering he was the catalyst for the expansion.

In my mind Talador should have been the final zone. Prior to WoD launch it was said that Talador was the heart of the Iron Horde’s stronghold on Draenor. We should have skirted around the zone whilst levelling, with all attempts to break into the zone being pushed back. Eventually culminating in the battle for Shattrath, which should have happened on much larger scale than what we got.

I think the idea was for Farahlon to be the final one before Tanaan, but it was scrapped early on

[Santandame]

Yeah with MoP someone had found the trademark a lot of time in advance and most people just did not believe it and thought it might be a different type of game.
And then that reveal video at Blizzcon was not exactly exciting so we didn't have any idea what to expect out of it. Though at the end of the day MoP was good because it had exceptional gameplay (most specs played great in MoP) and very solid content (many options for advancement outside raids plus fairly decent raids especially with ToT and SoO)

I remember the MoP announcement. It really was the most underwhelming we’ve had sans Dragonflight. It was all completely fresh lore and we had no idea what was going on. The popular belief was that it was going to be a huge flop and ironically it ended up being one of the best expansions we’ve had.

[ercarp]

The source code leak and the DF poster with Alexstrasza were leaked 16 days before the announcement. I wonder if we'll get a comparable leak this week given that we are now 18 days away.

[Wangming]

I remember the MoP announcement. It really was the most underwhelming we’ve had sans Dragonflight. It was all completely fresh lore and we had no idea what was going on. The popular belief was that it was going to be a huge flop and ironically it ended up being one of the best expansions we’ve had.

It probably didn't help that they first said there won't even be a bad guy before finally admitting that it would be Garrosh.

[Leowyld]

I remember the MoP announcement. It really was the most underwhelming we’ve had sans Dragonflight. It was all completely fresh lore and we had no idea what was going on. The popular belief was that it was going to be a huge flop and ironically it ended up being one of the best expansions we’ve had.

I can understand that. And, really, it's a matter of preference. As much as I did enjoy finally seeing places from established lore, like Kul Tiras and Zandalar, new lore excites me, too. Exploring new territory feels like an adventure to me. The only Opening Ceremony expansion stuff that underwhelmed me was probably Shadowlands. But the What's Next and other panels were much better for that particular one. Even though horrible patch cadence ended up bringing down the expansion. It's hard to believe now, but there was a feeling of excitement in Shadowlands before that first major patch took forever to arrive.

[Wangming]

The source code leak and the DF poster with Alexstrasza were leaked 16 days before the announcement. I wonder if we'll get a comparable leak this week given that we are now 18 days away.

I mean a whoopsie leaked the Hearthstone expansion for everyone. We are in the timeframe where tastier leaks are a lot more possible.

[Santandame]

I think the idea was for Farahlon to be the final one before Tanaan, but it was scrapped early on

I’m not so sure. Farahlon was said to be cut because the devs felt like the story didn’t really fit with the rest of the expansion and the overall narrative. It’s implied the zone was going to be the main home zone of the Botani, Genesaur, Infested etc. Gorgrond also had no Everbloom presence originally and was solely a rocky canyon zone with the entirety of the zone dealing with the Blackrock Orcs. The idea that Orc fatigue would be a thing then set in so majority of the Gorgrond storyline was changed and we instead got the Primals vs Breakers storyline instead and it’s pretty much implied the plans for Farahlon were merged with Gorgrond instead.

Also one plan was to originally have Farahlon serve as a mini zone for boosted characters to briefly level in whilst they learn the class.

- - - Updated - - -

It probably didn't help that they first said there won't even be a bad guy before finally admitting that it would be Garrosh.

For some weird reason I had convinced myself it would be Azshara before they gave in and told us it would be Garrosh. I may be misremembering but wasn’t there briefly the theory that each final raid would be faction specific with Alliance doing the Siege of Org and taking down Garrosh and Horde raiding Stormwind to take out Varian?

- - - Updated - - -

I can understand that. And, really, it's a matter of preference. As much as I did enjoy finally seeing places from established lore, like Kul Tiras and Zandalar, new lore excites me, too. Exploring new territory feels like an adventure to me. The only Opening Ceremony expansion stuff that underwhelmed me was probably Shadowlands. But the What's Next and other panels were much better for that particular one. Even though horrible patch cadence ended up bringing down the expansion. It's hard to believe now, but there was a feeling of excitement in Shadowlands before that first major patch took forever to arrive.

Oh yeah, I don’t doubt it. I loved MoP and I’m actually hoping we do see Avaloren next expansion with a ton of fresh, new lore similar to what we got with MoP. I want Halflings!

[Draedarr]

I’m not so sure. Farahlon was said to be cut because the devs felt like the story didn’t really fit with the rest of the expansion and the overall narrative. It’s implied the zone was going to be the main home zone of the Botani, Genesaur, Infested etc. Gorgrond also had no Everbloom presence originally and was solely a rocky canyon zone with the entirety of the zone dealing with the Blackrock Orcs. The idea that Orc fatigue would be a thing then set in so majority of the Gorgrond storyline was changed and we instead got the Primals vs Breakers storyline instead and it’s pretty much implied the plans for Farahlon were merged with Gorgrond instead.

Also one plan was to originally have Farahlon serve as a mini zone for boosted characters to briefly level in whilst they learn the class.

Yes, considering the point of everbloon, and that they made considerable changes right around the same time on Gorgrond to get more green there and chaged the position of the Iron Docks.
Many things were cut or changed mid development on WoD, Tanaan being closed off and so on.

[Leowyld]

@Santandame I think the Halflings idea would be cool. It's one of the few fantasy RPG tropes that the game has not touched upon with races yet (we just had Dracthyr essentially tick the box for lizardmen, kinda). And them being Dwarf relatives makes sense. (We also still need to have Saberon join someday, so we have the required MMO feline race - even Star Trek Online has one. Heh)

[Murlocos]

It probably didn't help that they first said there won't even be a bad guy before finally admitting that it would be Garrosh.

I know it was done for marketing reasons, but I wonder how things would have played out if they kept that card to their chest until the end. Knowing everything would eventually build up to Garrosh took away a bit of the fun for me.

[Santandame]

I know it was done for marketing reasons, but I wonder how things would have played out if they kept that card to their chest until the end. Knowing everything would eventually build up to Garrosh took away a bit of the fun for me.

If we didn’t know, who do you think we’d have been theorising during the expansion?

Lei Shen being saved for the end of the expansion? One of the Sha? A combination of the Sha?

Garrosh aside, Lei Shen was the only one being built up during the levelling.

[Magistrate]

That's been a problem with the Isles in general. I almost wonder if the original plan was for the Isles to have been in some sort of stasis, I think something to that effect was mentioned in an interview about the Djaradin. As is, they just went to sleep for.. reasons, and the Drakonids were apparently doing nothing for 10,000 years while leaving the place covered in ruins and abandoned settlements.

Pandaria (the direct comparison Blizzard themselves brings up) did a much better job of making the land feel progressed, with major threats contained to the far north and west with the eastern settlements thriving from the peace they enjoyed. I loved how the wall sectioning off the final two zones built up anticipation and intrigue, and by the Dread Wastes the comfy vibes were completely gone and all you had were tenuous mantid allies.

Northrend's the only continent that matched that sense of zone progression in my book.

I'd also add that the sense of mystery and grandeur when you entered the Vale of Eternal Blossoms was itself unmatched. When you did it live and you couldn't fly, and you just finished Kun'lai, Jade Forest, and Valley, you had all this mythology from the quest givers and lore scrolls. Then you followed the caravan into the newly unsealed gate after thousands of years to a complete visual shift that felt otherworldly but also natural. It was really good.

[Leowyld]

I know it was done for marketing reasons, but I wonder how things would have played out if they kept that card to their chest until the end. Knowing everything would eventually build up to Garrosh took away a bit of the fun for me.

If you look at the previous three expansions - Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Cataclysm, they all had the final boss be obvious from the start - ok, you could argue TBC had a different final boss. But still, they probably thought the players needed to know the final boss to enjoy the expansion. And, to be fair, the best example of an expansion where we didn't know the final boss from the beginning is Battle For Azeroth... a lot of people didn't end up liking that one. Although for many other reasons. Thinking about it, Warlords counts, too. At the start of Warlords, it felt like either Grom or Garrosh might be the final boss - neither of which happened. And also, an expansion that didn't work out well.

[Murlocos]

If we didn’t know, who do you think we’d have been theorising during the expansion?

Lei Shen being saved for the end of the expansion? One of the Sha? A combination of the Sha?

Garrosh aside, Lei Shen was the only one being built up during the levelling.

Probably some kind of super Sha if not Y'shaarj outright. I imagine speculation would have started going towards Garrosh around 5.2 anyways.

[Houle]

Did anyone save a pic of the hearthstone shirts?

Cause i didnt, and i wanted to compare smth

[Darkarath]

Did anyone save a pic of the hearthstone shirts?

Cause i didnt, and i wanted to compare smth

Hey, Forsaken in the Badlands. Maybe they establish their new capital city there. It fits them, honestly.

[Gloriandus]

My sources:

Microsoft wants big expansion of Warcraft IP, so...

- "Warcraft 4" coming
- Pace will pick up on Warcraft shows, web series, books, etc.
- Biggest announcement, however, likely will divide playerbase: "World of Warcraft" is becoming just "Warcraft"
- Metzen will announce all this at Blizzcon

[Sondrelk]

So we have had a lot of discussion on lore reasons to go to the backside of Azeroth, and what is preventing us from going there. But what would people actually prefer it to look and feel like? There is afterall no real lore besides the likely options of a fissure, Dwarves, and a potential crater of some kind filled with water where Elun'ahir was.

Personally I would love for it to be reminiscent of the old South Seas expansion concept with islands surrounding the Maelstrom. You could finally have the South Seas expansion we always should have had, and it lets us have Island exploration done right.