Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Pyrophax]

Man, most people HATED MoP and some time at the end of WoD/at the start of Legion moP was started being hailed as a golden era of WoW.

I remember Legion was hated as much as SL now. But patches were good.
Give it time, after 11.0 we will hear much about how SL was good, sure it had problems but but but...
Even now we can hear that WoD was great, Cata was awesome. And that who played then remember all shit that was thrown at blizz when expanisons were live.

[Nymrohd]

During Legion, I played mostly solo and I was having a blast. The lore and story were good, M+ was still fresh, there was plenty of content and a steady patch cycle, and the future of the franchise looked optimistic. Now, the lore and story are... not good, M+ is a shell of its former self, and the future of the franchise looks worse with every passing year. DF has had a solid patch cycle though, I'll give it that.

On M+ I'd say Legion had very strongly thematic dungeons and also had by far the easiest dungeons. By making M+ very competitive and trying to reach some parity of difficulty with Mythic raiding to excuse giving near identical rewards, they made even the base versions of dungeons far more complex. People like to occasionally have mindless fun.

[Teriz]

Is there any real reason for why the majority of leaks and theories are so convinced that we're going to Avaloren in 11.0?

My problem with Avaloren is that it’s yet another mysterious land hidden by mists/storms that is influenced by titans and dragons. It sounds more like an extension of Dragonflight than a new expansion on its own.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I remember Legion was hated as much as SL now. But patches were good.
Give it time, after 11.0 we will hear much about how SL was good, sure it had problems but but but...
Even now we can hear that WoD was great, Cata was awesome. And that who played then remember all shit that was thrown at blizz when expanisons were live.

You can hear that whole expansions are great or people are mentioning certain stuff that was great?

I can mention WoD lvling and quests, storylines ending with a bang at the end of the zones, do i praise whole expansion? Do people mentioning one thing about said expansion, actually praise the whole x expansion or certain stuff?

Also Legion was hated as much as SL now? Where?

[Foolicious]

Man, most people HATED MoP and some time at the end of WoD/at the start of Legion moP was started being hailed as a golden era of WoW.

I still think this comes down mostly to class design. Mop's content was fine. Some standouts, lots of average content, lots of frustrating things like daylies. Almost everyone that plays since then lists the mop or wod version of a spec as favourite. If you are having a blast playing with your class you have more fun doing bad content. Thats why mop still holds up and bfa for example is a dumpster fire.

[Kiria]

You can hear that whole expansions are great or people are mentioning certain stuff that was great?

I can mention WoD lvling and quests, storylines ending with a bang at the end of the zones, do i praise whole expansion? Do people mentioning one thing about said expansion, actually praise the whole x expansion or certain stuff?

Also Legion was hated as much as SL now? Where?

The only people who truly hated and were very vocal against Legion were the hardcore raiders who had to earn so much AP in a week in order to be chosen to do the raid, for casuals like most of us, it was great fun.

[micwini]

This could more or less just mean an 10.2.5 and/or 10.2.7, which I think most people were expecting, anyway.

What if they are going to have a 10.3 and a 10.4? Each with their own raid and 10.4 having another curve mount etc.
Probably not but yeah interesting. It's weird why they refuse to acknowledge whether 10.2 is the last patch or not, while in SL they straight up told us at the announcement of the patch.

[Pyrophax]

From buffed interview

buffed : Worgen and night elves have disappeared from Stormwind on the PTR. Will they live in the Emerald Dream from now on?

Katherine Bankson: It's potentially one of the new havens for the night elves, but I wouldn't say it's their only home. It's certainly a place they can call home, but it's not the only place.

The night elves have experienced a number of tragedies over the past 10,000 years and have often had to look for a new home. They hope that they will find peace in their dreams and will not have to search for a new home again. For us, Amirdrassil is a place where you can rest until you find something new.

So Amirdrassil is not main capital? Hyjal still has it hope to me
Maybe there will be more world trees across Azeroth. Hyjal, BI, DI. At least 3 will be acting.

Also
>Amirdrassil growing and coming to Azeroth is something both factions are interested in
That is strange topic. What is deal with Horde at Amirdrassil. Dont take away NE victory once again. Give them big W and leave them for 3-4 expacs.

[lanerios]

Man, most people HATED MoP and some time at the end of WoD/at the start of Legion moP was started being hailed as a golden era of WoW.

yea, MoP and Legion are both great examples of everyone hating them endlessly and now going "omg it had such good content! They were the best expansions". At the end of next expansion? People will be praising DF and SL, just wait for it.

[Nymrohd]

I remember Legion was hated as much as SL now. But patches were good.
Give it time, after 11.0 we will hear much about how SL was good, sure it had problems but but but...
Even now we can hear that WoD was great, Cata was awesome. And that who played then remember all shit that was thrown at blizz when expanisons were live.

We have a reasonably small community here. I can say that most people have kept their opinions very consistent. Sure if you are looking at aggragates you may be seeing shifts but that doesn't mean people who consistently play the game have changed their minds significantly. Also how we evaluate each expansion is a lot more nuanced than simply good/bad.

[Enrif]

Maybe that was the plan all along.

DUN DUN DUUUUUN....

i mean, Vyranoth has no issues with the plans of the primalists, only with Fyraks way of doing it after he consumed the shadowflame. Once he is out of the way, and she gets a powerboost from the tree, well, things could get frosty.

And being the calculated, cold blooded, calm mind in contrast to Fyrakks unhinged hot blooded madness is fitting.

I think Vyranoth is still an antagonist, but one with a good cause. It will probably not end with a raid though...

[Wangming]

We have a reasonably small community here. I can say that most people have kept their opinions very consistent. Sure if you are looking at aggragates you may be seeing shifts but that doesn't mean people who consistently play the game have changed their minds significantly. Also how we evaluate each expansion is a lot more nuanced than simply good/bad.

Well, there is one thing I can say in favor of BfA and SL right now. They took risks. Systems like warfront, island expeditions and Torghast were new things that had the potential to bite them in the arse. And Torghast kinda did. But they did risk it. And I hope 11.0 will take risks like that as well.

[Nymrohd]

yea, MoP and Legion are both great examples of everyone hating them endlessly and now going "omg it had such good content! They were the best expansions". At the end of next expansion? People will be praising DF and SL, just wait for it.

MoP received a ton of hatred before its release. While MoP was played, the only consistent issue the players had against it was the reward structure at release with some decent Valor rewards locked behind rep and that idiotic rep gating system MoP had. Heart of Fear was also poorly received (Garalon sucked).
Legion got hatred for two very related reasons. The AP grind which was a non-issue, it was just the tryhards whining about it non-stop and it did not affect the vast majority of the playerbase; unfortunately the tryhards are VERY LOUD and the legendary lottery which absolutely was a problem.
Neither got significant hatred for their content or their gameplay.

And I am not saying DF is bad. DF is far better than SL or WoD. But so many people are acting as if it is an amazing expansion and I just don't see it.

[Xilurm]

So Amirdrassil is not main capital? Hyjal still has it hope to me
Maybe there will be more world trees across Azeroth. Hyjal, BI, DI. At least 3 will be acting.

Also
>Amirdrassil growing and coming to Azeroth is something both factions are interested in
That is strange topic. What is deal with Horde at Amirdrassil. Dont take away NE victory once again. Give them big W and leave them for 3-4 expacs.

Well... that is certainly interesting.

Who is Katherine Bankson again? Is she involved with the writing?

[ImTheMizAwesome]

The only people who truly hated and were very vocal against Legion were the hardcore raiders who had to earn so much AP in a week in order to be chosen to do the raid, for casuals like most of us, it was great fun.

I loved legion but it wasn't perfect, but like you said for casual like us it was great fun and i mentioned it in the past.

One of the things that legion did good is longterm content - I lvled and played many classes/specs i never played before just to do more stuff with artifact system and class order halls, then you have the magetower which lasted whole expansion for both more hardcore and casual players eventually.
I did the tank challenge and i never played tank, spent a month training, gearing for it and it was awesome feeling in the end.

Other important stuff that Legion introduced to the game are world quest system, m+, added the invasion open world type events that were fun if done once but is way overdone now.

I just think that next expansion doesn't have to be exactly like Legion, but they should do something like that again in terms of adding fresh type of content features that just lasts longer and become a big part of further expansion such as world quests and m+ i mentioned above.

DF has dragonriding which will be a thing probably used in most future expansions which is good, it will be even nicer to have a choice between static and dynamic flying.

[ercarp]

My problem with Avaloren is that it’s yet another mysterious land hidden by mists/storms that is influenced by titans and dragons. It sounds more like an extension of Dragonflight than a new expansion on its own.

That's a valid concern.

If we get Avaloren, I hope they give attention to some of the races that haven't had much time in the limelight recently. I'm okay with more Titan lore personally as I think they were more of a side-story in Dragonflight in terms of the overarching story. Like, yeah, there was some stuff with Tyr, but the majority of the story was focused on the Primalists, the Dracthyr, and the dragonflights.

Here's what I personally hope to see on Avaloren:

• More dwarf lore is a given. They haven't had a dedicated zone since Twilight Highlands despite being one of the more popular races in the lore.
• A civilization of pandaren that left their homeland long ago and developed a different culture on Avaloren. I'm not even a huge fan of pandaren, but they've been consistently brushed under the carpet since MoP. They deserve better.
• Something with dark trolls. Trolls are almost always front and center so this is a bit of an exception, but I think there's a chance to do something unique with dark trolls given that we know fairly little about their culture.
• Ogres. Wouldn't really make sense given their presence on Azeroth is fairly minimal, but I've always liked ogres and I think this would be the perfect opportunity to bring them in as a potential Allied Race. Maybe there could be a subset of more intelligent ogres on Avaloren?
• Tol'vir. Another cool, underappreciated race with strong ties to the titans. Wouldn't mind seeing more of them on Avaloren. Pygmies, too.

- - - Updated - - -

On M+ I'd say Legion had very strongly thematic dungeons and also had by far the easiest dungeons. By making M+ very competitive and trying to reach some parity of difficulty with Mythic raiding to excuse giving near identical rewards, they made even the base versions of dungeons far more complex. People like to occasionally have mindless fun.

I agree with that. I think they've overcomplicated M+, especially coming from a healer main's perspective. It's so hectic now. I don't know if the current season is any better, but Season 1 made me quit Retail.

[Wangming]

And I am not saying DF is bad. DF is far better than SL or WoD. But so many people are acting as if it is an amazing expansion and I just don't see it.

I mean I sort of understand it. Both in terms of systems, fights zones and story, the big problem with DF, at least in my eyes, that it is bland. After being served shit on a plate they are more than happy to have a well-done steak. It may not have a good taste or a good texture, but it isn't flawed in a way dogcrap paired with a pretty cool coleslaw is flawed.

[Enrif]

TBC -> WoD -> Legion
WotLK -> BfA -> SL
Cata -> DF -> 11.0

I don't think this holds up to scrutiny. Especially BfA. BfA fits too well with the Cata Themes. Faction War, Naga, Old Gods, a world that is hurt after a massive event. The conflict even starts in Ashenvale! (remember that Twilight Cultists tried to blame night elf deaths on the horde). Ragnaros tried to burn Nordrassil, while Sylvanas succeeded with burning Teldrassil. It's only missing elementals and dragons.

On the other hand, DF could fit with WotLK. It has Tuskarr, a Grizzly Hills like zone, Wyrmrest Accord on steroids (all dragon flights represented), Sindragosa...

[micwini]

Avaloren, Khaz Algar and Undermine should just be zones in the world revamp expansion.
Avaloren has the issue mentioned above: Another 'lol hidden island' moment. The other 2 are just caves and I can't imagine them having a continent sized area with 6-7 zones that are all in a cave. Especially after the poor reception of Zaralek.

[Pyrophax]

Well... that is certainly interesting.

Who is Katherine Bankson again? Is she involved with the writing?

Interview was with Katherine Bankson (Assistant Lead Quest Designer) and Anne Stickney (Senior Narrative Designer). So pretty sure she knows things.