Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Skildar]

I don't think I'll buy any Warcraft book ever again after how they handled chronicles.

I'm just fed up with Golden as their main writer for the books. It's not my taste at all, it feels like reading a bad fan fiction. I've bought the first two volumes of Chronicles and I still enjoy them both, the changes made to the story don't take away the feel of the world the book gives you.

But in terms of novel I think the last one I've trily enjoyed is the Vol'jin one.

[Nebron]

Sure, here's a random one.

Damn, it's so good... the brasses and woodwinds are crazily dramatic in this one, and the Dragonflight motif incorporated into this piece. Really goooooood.

[milkmustache]

that's actually very helpful to worldbuilding and making sure their world remains interesting and keep its mysticism

I think in certain terms, sure. GRRM does a very good job with it in ASOIAF. But it's a little hard to do in an MMO where you, the character, have a front row seat to the events.

I really like the idea that the Titans have created a form of illusion for us (and the greator world), and that their word may not be trusted, but I don't think that calling that the unreliable narrator trope is fair or entirely correct. It can be assumed the Titans et al know exactly what they're doing, so they're hardly an unreliable narrator and more of plain liars. In my opinion, the usage of unreliable narrator trope from a narrative lead can end up being used just to bandaid mistakes or make retcons, which can create an incredibly slippery slope.

[Raetary]

that's actually very helpful to worldbuilding and making sure their world remains interesting and keep its mysticism

It's a world building tool yes, but a franchise needs a stable foundation to grow from.
Having every. single. piece. of lore be written from an unreliable narrator, in combination with a writing team that can and does retcon things very frequently, just leaves you with an empty franchise that has no staying power.

Why would people get invested in lore with such highly unstable foundations, that large parts of it can and will be retconned on a whim?

[matijwow]

do you have an example?

One example I can think of is the Shadowlands story. In the Sylvanas book written at the start of BfA, Sylvanas's interior monologue or the narrator explicitly say she did not want to be warchief and resented Vol'jin for appointing her. Within the course of the expansion, they changed her to have been knowingly working with the Jailer the whole time and that becoming warchief was part of the plan.

[Gurahk]

I'm just fed up with Golden as their main writer for the books. It's not my taste at all, it feels like reading a bad fan fiction. I've bought the first two volumes of Chronicles and I still enjoy them both, the changes made to the story don't take away the feel of the world the book gives you.

But in terms of novel I think the last one I've trily enjoyed is the Vol'jin one.

For me, it was the Illidan one, don't remember who wrote it but I did enjoy it.

[Skildar]

Most people learn about unreliable narrators in high school English class and it gets presented as a clever way to write stories but they don't realize how narrowly it must be used to write a good story.

These writers seem like they're just throwing it out there as a way to deny that their retcons are retcons rather than to defend their retcons.

not the same thing at all. The unreliable narrator is a clever way to deceipt the reader and surprise him. Let's say by not stating that the main character has a gun strapped in his back when confronting the enemy and telling you that your main character is accepting his death, etc.

We're talking about unreliable sources here. In a story, you need a world that is coherent and which rules aren't changing every time you acquire new information. The recent changes in lore make people feel like we've fallen into this, in my opinion we haven't. The rules of the world of warcraft have been layed out and kept intact for a very long time. Only recently the dev have accepted to take the only source of these, the titans, and put them as unreliable. Rendering once again the titans and the order of their world as mysterious. It can be disheartening to some but this is a clear gain. It's a basic progressive vs conservative.

[Jastall]

That's not bad. Must be raid music?

I wish they'd add actual boss music like Dark Souls.

They do to a small degree. It's not as bombastic as traditional Dark Souls pieces and few encounters get it but a variety of bosses have themes. I remember Jaina having a remix of the Kul Tiras theme playing as you fight her for instance, Jailer also had some and Sylvanas did as well I think. Think Argus might actually have been the first boss to get one but I'm not certain anymore.

[Skildar]

One example I can think of is the Shadowlands story. In the Sylvanas book written at the start of BfA, Sylvanas's interior monologue or the narrator explicitly say she did not want to be warchief and resented Vol'jin for appointing her. Within the course of the expansion, they changed her to have been knowingly working with the Jailer the whole time and that becoming warchief was part of the plan.

oh yeah you're 100% right on that. The treatment of Sylvanas is a shit show. Let it be from legion, bfa, before the storm. A lot of elements were just thrown on a wall not knowing what to do with it... Only to drastically change her portrayal in Shadowlands. I'm still trying to forget her character evolution. Sometimes I do the worgen intro scenario to remember when it was done right.

[Kalontas]

Yeah, unreliable narrator is an artistic technique. You write it like that *on purpose*.

If you make a mistake, then pretend it's not a mistake, and invoke the unreliable narrator as a get-out-of-jail-free card, that's not really an unreliable narrator. That's just a f*** up and you're a bad writer. (I don't remember what the profanity policy is on this forum)

[Catastrophy349]

Good thing we got Chris Metzen coming back into the fold to help with lore consistency!

[Skildar]

For me, it was the Illidan one, don't remember who wrote it but I did enjoy it.

I've had a friend who recommended it to me a couple years ago but I still haven't tried it. I got stuck reading shadow rising and should finish this one before I pick up another book from the franchise

[Magistrate]

Good thing we got Chris Metzen coming back into the fold to help with lore consistency!

*Laughs and cries at the same time*

[hattahat]

Good thing we got Chris Metzen coming back into the fold to help with lore consistency!

In fact, Chris Metzen is not known for his consistency in Lore... I think the Draenei retcons were still the most devastating and massive retcons in any WoW expansion.

[Marlamin]

Download link for all the new music from this build for the people who don't want to wait on the reuploads. There's even some Russell Brower tracks apparently which surprised one of the music enjoyers I know, so there's that.

[Catastrophy349]

In fact, Chris Metzen is not known for his consistency in Lore... I think the Draenei retcons were still the most devastating and massive retcons in any WoW expansion.

Thank you for pointing out something from almost 15 years ago!

[Shadowferal]

"We prefer de groves of nature to de cold stone of de city. Many of de Zandalari believe us to be heretics. Dey claim our matron is no loa.

Dey are welcome to their opinions. We of de Lun'alai have long possessed de gifts of nature, to take de forms of the wild. Ours is de way of balance, not bargains."

That's their leader implicitly disagreeing with the Zandalari opinion that what they worship isn't a loa.

Sounds too...civilized to me.

[Marlamin]

...wait what?

Is that a big surprise? Maybe he just wanted to do some things on WoW again because he was bored.

[Shadowferal]

I don't think I'll buy any Warcraft book ever again after how they handled chronicles.

Had all three. Tossed the last two.

[Chickat]

Anything juicy in the last 12-18hours?