Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[PotHockets]

Battleground Blitz... basically Solo Que Rated BGs.

Oh fuck yeah I can finally grind RBGs idk how I missed that

[PaladinBash]

NGL, 8man Rated Orbs sounds absolutely hilarious. I'll give Blizz a pass on so much just from how fun that shit sounds.

[seainma]

I've enjoyed the mushiness of it all. It was a nice breather that I think was needed even if there's never exactly a right time to do a stop and listen expansion. Especially if Blizz is gonna be ramping up a long form storyline like they've mentioned.

100% agree. Shadowlands was so serious. It was nice to return to Azeroth and just explore and build up some new baddies. If this is indeed a multiple expansion story. I think people 3-4 years from now will turn around and say DF was actually pretty good.

[Xilurm]

I read it again to make sure but that's not what was asked, nor was that what was said.

The question was
If you discovered what turned out to be a narrative error after the fact, how would you go about fixing it?

So after they discovered an inconsistency

And they answered that they basically use the unreliable narrator as a solution because they feel it makes the world more a living place.

I just don't see maliciousness in those answers. Personally, I haven't seen maybe games or any sort of story retract or change something after its been release. Its either ignored or becomes "expanded" upon. Star Wars the Clone Wars animated series comes to mind for that.

Hell even in Elden Ring, Miyazaki said in an interview there were some lore clarifications he wanted to do in future games. I know its a bit off topic but I don't know what more you can do once the narrative error is out in the public.

One of the questions does talk about inconsistencies yeah but I used the word for a different question they were asked.

I'm talking about this part.

Bringing new customizations for playable races is a great addition to Dragonflight. However, this seems to bring a lot of "errors" to the NPCs in the game. For example, I have already seen many Blood Elf guards with blue eyes. Do you manage the implementation of NPC customizations to avoid errors? Can we fear that Man'ari Paladins will one day be visible by mistake, for example?

And the answer is.

Katherine Bankson: "Blood Elves can have blue eyes now, it's not just a customization available to players! Time has passed since the game's debut, some Blood Elves have golden eyes now while others have returned to their original blue color. The fact that such guards exist is not only related to the customizations available to players, but also and above all to the fact that time has passed since Blood Elves found themselves infused with Fel, giving them this greenish eye tint."

"In that sense, I think that if we place a Man'ari Paladin in the world of Warcraft then it will be a deliberate choice, and then after all... who says the Man'ari can't defend the light ? I think this would be a very interesting character! If we were to add such a character into the game, it would not be a narrative error, it would be a deliberate choice on the part of one of our developers aimed at introducing an element that he considers interesting to develop. in the history of the game."

It would be an interesting character for who? Devs obsessed with subverting expectations? You can see the interviewer asks this while being hopeful (otherwise why add the word "fear") that maybe she would answer that we have nothing to worry about. But nah, everything we do is interesting and great, screw the rules.

Yeah, of course it's a deliberate design choice on their part, like with everything else. But guess what. Goldtooth riding Hogger into battle, invading Stormwind and slaying every guard in his way, making his way to the keep and slitting Anduin's throat in cold blood is also a deliberate choice that they could do, but that doesn't mean it's good.

[seainma]

No, I didn't have an issue with the story... but I did wish they gave an explanation about the Primalists.. We don't know anything about them other than they suddenly appeared, knew about the Incarnates, have elemental power, and we don't know their true leader if they can still operate in Zaralek with Kurog dead. Instead, they say that the Primalists don't matter anymore and that the focus is on the Druids of the Flame.

They literally said "There are no lore errors, only different perspectives" and it certainly gave me a "different perspective" of where WoW is heading.

That's fair. I also wish we had gotten more lore about the Primalists.

After reading a couple of replies I think people missed a key part of the question.

If you discovered what turned out to be a narrative error after the fact, how would you go about fixing it?

I would interpret it as after its in the game how do they fix it. And they say well people have different perspectives. Which I don't know how else they would fix it after its live.

I acknowledge though that maybe I'm being charitable in my interpretation.

[Ferlion]

One of the questions does talk about inconsistencies yeah but I used the word for a different question they were asked.

I'm talking about this part.



And the answer is.



It would be an interesting character for who? Devs obsessed with subverting expectations? You can see the interviewer asks this while being hopeful (otherwise why add the word "fear") that maybe she would answer that we have nothing to worry about. But nah, everything we do is interesting and great, screw the rules.

Yeah, of course it's a deliberate design choice on their part, like with everything else. But guess what. Goldtooth riding Hogger into battle, invading Stormwind and slaying every guard in his way, making his way to the keep and slitting Anduin's throat in cold blood is also a deliberate choice that they could do, but that doesn't mean it's good.

I mean, you realize the equivalent of a Man'ari Draenei is a green orc, right?

A Draenei who fell to the Legion, was exposed to enough fel to change them, but ran off and broke free to later discover the Light is a perfectly fine story.

[Xilurm]

I mean, you realize the equivalent of a Man'ari Draenei is a green orc, right?

A Draenei who fell to the Legion, was exposed to enough fel to change them, but ran off and broke free to later discover the Light is a perfectly fine story.

Funny you say that, but weren't Orc Priests literally added in this expansion? Which proves my point, because it's the same writing team.

[seainma]

One of the questions does talk about inconsistencies yeah but I used the word for a different question they were asked.

I'm talking about this part.



And the answer is.



It would be an interesting character for who? Devs obsessed with subverting expectations? You can see the interviewer asks this while being hopeful (otherwise why add the word "fear") that maybe she would answer that we have nothing to worry about. But nah, everything we do is interesting and great, screw the rules.

Yeah, of course it's a deliberate design choice on their part, like with everything else. But guess what. Goldtooth riding Hogger into battle, invading Stormwind and slaying every guard in his way, making his way to the keep and slitting Anduin's throat in cold blood is also a deliberate choice that they could do, but that doesn't mean it's good.

I'm going to have to disagree. I think it would be an interesting story to tell. They've basically already done it with Lothraxion. And Xera tried to turn our fel boy Illidan into a lightforged. So there is precedent of something like this happening.

I understand wanting to preserve some sense of this is what Man'ari is now and they can't be anything else. But I also think they is an unnecessary limitation on the developers.

[Floot]

100% agree. Shadowlands was so serious. It was nice to return to Azeroth and just explore and build up some new baddies. If this is indeed a multiple expansion story. I think people 3-4 years from now will turn around and say DF was actually pretty good.

At this moment, I'm not certain how anyone could with a serious face claim that Dragonflight wasn't a good expansion (so far).

It's literally improved at every facet of the game people have been complaining about since BfA.

The only parts that might be worse are: mythic+ balance and something missing in the storytelling...

[Scyth]

At this moment, I'm not certain how anyone could with a serious face claim that Dragonflight wasn't a good expansion (so far).

It's literally improved at every facet of the game people have been complaining about since BfA.

The only parts that might be worse are: mythic+ balance and something missing in the storytelling...

People will always find something to complain about.
"There's nothing to do this xpac!!!"
"This xpac is too grindy!!!"

Can't please everyone sadly

[matijwow]

At this moment, I'm not certain how anyone could with a serious face claim that Dragonflight wasn't a good expansion (so far).

It's literally improved at every facet of the game people have been complaining about since BfA.

The only parts that might be worse are: mythic+ balance and something missing in the storytelling...

I just don't find it fun to play.

[Ersula]

People will always find something to complain about.
"There's nothing to do this xpac!!!"
"This xpac is too grindy!!!"

Can't please everyone sadly

I can't blame anyone for skipping Dragonflight after Shadowlands, but I've gotten a lot of criticism about Dragonflight from people I know for a fact have not played one second of it.

[KayRule]

If fake leaks get more hype than the actual expansion it would be bad. Shadowlands was disappointing enough that I still like to think the one Shadowlands "leak" with the map and Nyalotha in the center was an early (better) draft that they abandoned to wrap up Old Gods in 8.3.

Are you 5? That's not how video game development works.

8.3 being N'Zoth was not a pivot or rush to wrap up, it was their plan from the start as seen by zones datamined in the beta and all of the numerous obvious direct plot developments.

Any fake leak will end up being better in retrospect to a real one because the fake one is fake and you're able to fill in your head how much better it would be. It's the same thing with Classic+ /Reboot Timeline people.

- - - Updated - - -

At this moment, I'm not certain how anyone could with a serious face claim that Dragonflight wasn't a good expansion (so far).

It's literally improved at every facet of the game people have been complaining about since BfA.

The only parts that might be worse are: mythic+ balance and something missing in the storytelling...

90% of the criticisms I've seen levied are from people who explicitly have stated they didn't even bother and blame story themes/writing.

[Nerdslime]

I am a genuine Dragonflight enjoyer who has been subbed the entire xpac and have a lot of praise for nearly every aspect of it but I think it's very fair to say the storytelling is inconsistent, at times a bit incoherent, and far too passive and navel-gazey for a game where so much of the aesthetic and high water marks are based around bombastic heroism and violence.

I think that it's appropriate to say the xpac has been fun and a huge improvement over SL and also to say the story could be considered a weak and somewhat out-of-place link in the chain. No xpac is perfect, and that's okay. Consistent and engaging story and characterization is maybe just the big thing this xpac is struggling with. Well, that and repetition of invasions - I loved them in Legion but my god I am sick of them now and they seem lower and lower effort every time they get used.

My hope for 11.0 is a centered focus on story and developing a lot of characters and subplots for the future. I think Blizzard got a bit too risk-averse after the disaster of BFA-Shadowlands storytelling and all the toxic workplace shakeups that surely changed the staff and dynamic of the story team(s). It feels as though, with the hemorrhaging of players and player goodwill, they overcorrected too hard. Can't blame them but it watered down the "voice" and a lot of people notice it even if it isnt a dealbreaker for the xpac as a whole.

I think they're gonna do better and even if the "party line" tone in the interview doesn't convey a lot of deep reflection from player feedback I hope internally their approach is different. I think Metzen being aboard will help Blizzard find their footing and feel safe to take calculated storytelling risks that make sense in universe (versus risks like the Jailer) and which will please the fanbase. I like to think positively.

[huth]

Are you 5? That's not how video game development works.

8.3 being N'Zoth was not a pivot or rush to wrap up, it was their plan from the start as seen by zones datamined in the beta and all of the numerous obvious direct plot developments.

Any fake leak will end up being better in retrospect to a real one because the fake one is fake and you're able to fill in your head how much better it would be. It's the same thing with Classic+ /Reboot Timeline people.

I'm still surprised how some people did not manage to pick up on the old god themes in 8.0. They weren't exactly hidden in Stormsong.

[Polybius]

Again, it is doubtful that Blizzard will throw away one of its last major lore areas in that manner. Undermine is potentially a unique continent that has roots in classic warcraft and is tied to one of the classic races of the game.

*cackles in fluent Nazja*

[flan1337]

I mean, you realize the equivalent of a Man'ari Draenei is a green orc, right?

A Draenei who fell to the Legion, was exposed to enough fel to change them, but ran off and broke free to later discover the Light is a perfectly fine story.

I wonder if the Man'ari could pledge itself to Ragnaros and could be a fire paladin - I don't think its a bad idea of making some Man'ari good or break away from the legion ,but they should make it cool. Hell we worked with some Man'ari before - https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Val%27zuun

[Viridiel]

My only real criticism for Dragonflight is the lack of charm and feeling of belonging in patch zones. Forbidden Reach was just awful and Zaralek was a disaster. I really enjoy open world content and I had a lot of fun with the community events when the expansion launched, so the fact that they weren't able to keep pace with that has been really disappointing.

I want events like the soup with relevance and continued engagement. I want events that my friends who only do raiding are interested in doing at least for the first few weeks because they're fun and give decent rewards. I've never had a reason to do the researchers event in Zaralek, and I only did the time rifts for mounts and a title. And if someone like me who loves open world content doesn't enjoy them then they really messed up.

[KayRule]

There's like 17 other events in Zaralek outside of Researchers that are firing off constantly.

[huth]

There's like 17 other events in Zaralek outside of Researchers that are firing off constantly.

*sets Niffen cart on fire* Hehe.