Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[ercarp]

Tinkers would actually be such a cool addition, I don't know why people are hating on them constantly.

[Ferlion]

Tinkers would actually be such a cool addition, I don't know why people are hating on them constantly.

Ironman spec.

[Nymrohd]

Btw this is probably ancient history here but because I still see Vakthos mentioned here and there as possible content.
If you do the Ancient Stones achievements, there is one on top of Vakthos called "Vakthos Maintenance" that confirms the original way the storyline went; Vakthos is simply there to power up the nearby Vault, which means that as it was in early maps, the Vault of the Incarnates would be close by (in an island off the coast of Azure Span) and Razsageth would attack the tower so as to breach its defenses.

[Hitei]

Tinkers would actually be such a cool addition, I don't know why people are hating on them constantly.

50% because goblins and gnomes are wildly unpopular, silly, and dumb, and 50% because tinker fans continually insist that they are the only reasonable option to add despite like three other classes being added in the meantime.

[Nymrohd]

Tinkers would actually be such a cool addition, I don't know why people are hating on them constantly.

Yeah I love the idea as well. I honestly cannot tell if people hate Tinkers as a concept or they just hate Teriz and poor Tinkers are collateral.

[Woggmer]

So if we go to another island or continent or something else, then how many zones at the beginning do you guys want?

I would prefer to have 6 zones like in BFA than 4 main zones again.

I would say about 6 - 7 zones is the old standard, though Legion, Shadowlands, and the Dragon Isles broke that standard to focus on making the zones much bigger in comparison. The Broken Shore and the Dragon Isles especially really put more emphasis into the size and scale of the zones, but in DF's case it was mainly to compensate for Dragonriding to allow more open space for travel.

I'd stick to maybe 6 zones at least with 7 being the max if we're going to a new continent.

[Nymrohd]

50% because goblins and gnomes are wildly unpopular, silly, and dumb

I mean both races have a clear thematic class for them and that class is missing. Maybe that is part of why they are unpopular. Why play a race if you cannot play the archetype tied to it?

[Hitei]

Btw this is probably ancient history here but because I still see Vakthos mentioned here and there as possible content.
If you do the Ancient Stones achievements, there is one on top of Vakthos called "Vakthos Maintenance" that confirms the original way the storyline went; Vakthos is simply there to power up the nearby Vault, which means that as it was in early maps, the Vault of the Incarnates would be close by (in an island off the coast of Azure Span) and Razsageth would attack the tower so as to breach its defenses.

It's well documented that Blizzard hates dragon towers and actively looks for ways to cut their storylines.

[ZyntosAran]

50% because goblins and gnomes are wildly unpopular, silly, and dumb, and 50% because tinker fans continually insist that they are the only reasonable option to add despite like three other classes being added in the meantime.

Before Tinkers we need AT LEAST Spellbreaker and Warden, at least as specs.

[ercarp]

Yeah I love the idea as well. I honestly cannot tell if people hate Tinkers as a concept or they just hate Teriz and poor Tinkers are collateral.

It must be some kind of forum blood feud that's gotten out of control. I know that goblins and gnomes are not the most popular races, but there's no way people hate Tinkers this much.

Personally I think goblins and gnomes actually have some really cool lore. The problem is that Blizzard's writers ignore this and use them as comic relief instead. Same happened with Pandaren.

[Nymrohd]

It's well documented that Blizzard hates dragon towers and actively looks for ways to cut their storylines.

Haha so true.

[Santandame]

In theory I understand why they want to always have a diversity of biomes in every expansion, but I feel like it comes at a cost of believablity of the world. There should always be a strong concept behind a continent, instead of it being just a collection of random biomes that honestly don't even belong together. Looking back at the expansions:
Vanilla - many different biomes but grouped in a rather believable way.
TBC - many different zones, but with a common theme of "alien world destroyed by fel"
Wrath - the North! it's cold, and its snowy!
Cata - random collection of zones, but they were also wadded in believable places on a map
MoP - China
WoD - zones are rather random, but theres still a strong theme of "Outland before it became Outland" so it gets a pass
Legion - no very strong theme. You could say that four of the zones are Elf-aligned, but it comes up only in architecture and stories. Two other zones feel completely unrelated to the main theme.
BfA - two islands, both of them fairly consistent in their theming. Good job.
Shadowlands - although the zones are different realms of Death, they look like a random selection of areas in a theme park. Not great.
Dragonflight - the biggest "theme" i could find here is how vast the zones are... and that's about it.

Regardless of the quality of expansions themselves, to me the two most "forgettable" continents are Broken Isles and Dragon Isles. They just feel like a collections of zones smashed together, not like an actual place. On the other hand, the continents I remember the most fondly are the ones qith a strong theme behind them - Northrend, Pandaria, Outland, or even BfA zones.

I just hope the Avaloren will not be just a random mashup of generic zones filling the snow / desert / forest / jungle quota, but instead it will feel like an actual place.

I’m going to have to disagree with the Broken Isles being a continent that feels like a random group of zones with no unifying theme.

It’s essentially the forgotten realms of WoW. It’s a land full of magic, and it has strong elven themes. It’s the Highborne landmass. Every zone fits together aesthetically too. It’s not as if we’re going from a desert to a snow capped mountain to a savannah. It’s a mountainous/forested coastal region and I feel like it captures that pretty well. Then there’s also Suramar which is possibly the greatest zone to be added to the game.

I don’t think the Broken Isles is the best landmass added, mind, but it’s certainly not the most inconsistent. Northrend is a lot more theme park and ironically it’s raved about.

In terms of world building, consistent themes and aesthetics, and the land feeling like an actual real place where people live - then you aren’t going to get better landmasses than Kul Tiras, Pandaria and Zandalar in that order.

[PotHockets]

50% because goblins and gnomes are wildly unpopular, silly, and dumb, and 50% because tinker fans continually insist that they are the only reasonable option to add despite like three other classes being added in the meantime.

It wouldn't have to just be a Gnome/Goblin class. You could easily include Humans, Dwarves, Draenei, VElves, Mechagnomes and Dark Irons for the Alliance. The harder one would be Horde side but even then you could do Orcs, Blood Elves, Maghar Orcs, Nightborne and maybe Vulpera if you lean into them always looking for new ways to string things together and make it work or something.

[Hitei]

I mean both races have a clear thematic class for them and that class is missing. Maybe that is part of why they are unpopular. Why play a race if you cannot play the archetype tied to it?

That's an extremely flawed line of reasoning. Mechanic classes are rarely popular in any game. DH wasn't added until 2017, do you know what people did instead? Played Night Elf rogues and warriors and wore demon-huntery transmogs. They are unpopular because they are unpopular.

[Nymrohd]

Before Tinkers we need AT LEAST Spellbreaker and Warden, at least as specs.

Honestly I could see Warden become part of Sub Rogue; they already have so much shadow magic. Give Rogue warglaives and that cool mirror image ability as a talented AoE cooldown and I think it's there.

I very much want some form of Spellbreaker/Spellblade. I could see it as a mage melee spec but I so much would rather have it as a full class.

[Woke it Up]

I wonder why Blizzard chose Jaina and Thrall for their new YouTube music videos.

Last ones they released were for major Shadowlands characters, one for each zone.

Jelly cat, the true main shadowlands character

[PotHockets]

Blizzard don't usually just produce content out of the blue unless they have a purpose behind it.

No not usually but this is a huge anniversary year and I think they're just leaning into Warcraft as a franchise for it as opposed to just themed around the expansion.

[Hitei]

It wouldn't have to just be a Gnome/Goblin class. You could easily include Humans, Dwarves, Draenei, VElves, Mechagnomes and Dark Irons for the Alliance. The harder one would be Horde side but even then you could do Orcs, Blood Elves, Maghar Orcs, Nightborne and maybe Vulpera if you lean into them always looking for new ways to string things together and make it work or something.

It was less about being locked into specific races and more about general aesthetics. See: Monk. Monk suffers because regardless of what you are playing it on, it's still extremely pandaren/august celestial in aesthetic. "tinker" technology in wow is heavily tied into gnome and goblin aesthetic, which just isn't popular.

[ercarp]

They are unpopular because they are unpopular.

They're unpopular until they get added to the game and get to be the shiny new class everyone wants to try out.

Bonus points if Blizzard makes them OP af (the meta brains can't say no, no matter how much they might detest gnomes). I mean look at the amount of people choosing to main underfed lizards that can't even transmog just because they're OP.

[Nymrohd]

That's an extremely flawed line of reasoning. Mechanic classes are rarely popular in any game. DH wasn't added until 2017, do you know what people did instead? Played Night Elf rogues and warriors and wore demon-huntery transmogs. They are unpopular because they are unpopular.

I mean by that logic, everyone who plays an engineer using the goggle mogs wants to be a tinker.