Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Santandame]

For those advocating for it; What exactly would be the point of a light vs void expansion? In other words, why are we doing it, who are we fighting, where are we fighting, and what happens when it’s over? I’m simply not seeing a purpose behind such an expansion, and I view it as a destructive escalation of the narrative. Like if we’re taking spaceships to other planets to fight void monsters, how do we go back to Azeroth and whack Gnolls, dragons, and troggs?

Weren’t you advocating for similar with Yrel and the Lightbound?

[Nathanyel]

have you heard this from asmongold? almost word for word what he said yesterday on stream lol

It's funny how people don't even paraphrase, just parrot certain negative streamers.

[Santandame]

Not to be a pedantic little jerk but it is funny that the number 1 tinker advocate here is the one most vocal against leaving behind the medieval fantasy.

He was literally advocating for months for a Yrel Lightbound invasion, now he’s complaining about Draenei.

[keelr]

Do you mean Reinjin's "List", released just after WotLK was announced? He later admitted he made it up.

No, it's not this one

[Santandame]

Exactly my thoughts as well. Some posters here want us to meet Elune next, and I'm wondering ytf would you want to touch on that? What's the point of meeting (or fighting) Elune? What's next? Are we going to fight the sun after we loot the moon goddess' corpse?

I agree with you that meeting Elune is a bad idea. As is all this First Ones business.

But Fantasy and Sci-Fi are pretty hand in hand and have been for the longest of times. There is a place for Sci-Fi elements such as tinkers, world hopping, Draenei, ethereals and the legion in WoW. You should know that better than anyone considering your hope for tinkers/undermine as well as a Yrel invasion.

It jumps the shark when we start diving into the wider cosmos business such as the First Ones.

[Baraden]

I agree with you that meeting Elune is a bad idea. As is all this First Ones business.

But Fantasy and Sci-Fi are pretty hand in hand and have been for the longest of times. There is a place for Sci-Fi elements such as tinkers, world hopping, Draenei, ethereals and the legion in WoW. You should know that better than anyone considering your hope for tinkers/undermine as well as a Yrel invasion.

It jumps the shark when we start diving into the wider cosmos business such as the First Ones.

We should never directly interact with the titans/ gods of WoW; it just cheapens the mystique of the higher powers

[Teriz]

I mean we already know Iridikron made a pact with the void for power. It is safe to assume that however his story continues, the void will be involved. And since the polar opposite on the cosmology chart is holy, it is safe to asssume the enemy of shadow will be light.

Yeah, but Iridikron's goal is to undo the titan's grip on Azeroth and to essentially allow the Old Gods and the elementals to reclaim Azeroth. It's not a cosmic goal, it's entirely based on Azeroth itself. Which is why I'm always scratching my head over people thinking that Iridikron is going off world to hang out with the void lords on Shadow planet no. 5 when his goals have always revolved around Azeroth and Azeroth alone.

[Nathanyel]

No, it's not this one

Well, do share it when you find it and it's from before the WotLK announcement

[Teriz]

I agree with you that meeting Elune is a bad idea. As is all this First Ones business.

But Fantasy and Sci-Fi are pretty hand in hand and have been for the longest of times. There is a place for Sci-Fi elements such as tinkers, world hopping, Draenei, ethereals and the legion in WoW. You should know that better than anyone considering your hope for tinkers/undermine as well as a Yrel invasion.

It jumps the shark when we start diving into the wider cosmos business such as the First Ones.

To be fair, Goblin/Gnome technology is simply steampunk and alchemic concepts. Those concepts also align with medieval fantasy themes. There's a difference between a Goblin Tinker/Alchemist building a rickety mech with exposed gears and powered by an alchemic concoction, and Draenei literally flying around in spaceships with inter-dimensional warp drives and laser canons.

Which btw is why I've always been opposed to Draenei being a part of the Tinker class concept. They don't really fit due to their technology being several leagues higher than what it should be given the genre.

[Nebron]

Yeah, I just believe that a medieval fantasy game should keep certain elements to a minimum or not touch on them at all. I'm starting to believe that the Draenei concept really took this game in a direction it should have never gone, because that race introduced concepts that really warped the natural limits of the genre. Ethereals and their technology and eco-domes could be another potential problem.

Good point. Once the doors are opened, there's no way to close them. I'm astonished how recklessly story team decided to introduce the grand-scale narrative into the game, and cornered themselves in the process. I'm doomsayer, I know, but I simply can't see a way to fix the "story" without either a major retcon or just the reset. It's not like you can just simply "forget", right? And the recent interview with Senior Narrative Designers doesn't fill me with optimism either, as they pointed out that they treat "inconsistencies" as "opportunities" rather than "errors"... it's just such a lazy approach - it seems the narrative team specced into relativism and everything is just a matter of perspective, unreliable sources and lack of greater context, lol.

[Azalar]

Yeah, but Iridikron's goal is to undo the titan's grip on Azeroth and to essentially allow the Old Gods and the elementals to reclaim Azeroth. It's not a cosmic goal, it's entirely based on Azeroth itself. Which is why I'm always scratching my head over people thinking that Iridikron is going off world to hang out with the void lords on Shadow planet no. 5 when his goals have always revolved around Azeroth and Azeroth alone.

Part of me can't help but wonder what's Therazane's play in Iridikron's plot, because she SHOULD be involved in some way. I mean, why are the incarnates now like some sort of Elemental Lords 2.0? Why is Fyrakk portrayed as somebody who could easily topple Ragnaros -and does indeed crush Smolderon-?

[Pheraz]

This image is super cool, but also quite emblematic of how weirdly Blizzard treats dragons in Dragonflight.
I could probably count on one hand the number of times I've seen the Aspects using their proper dragon forms this expansion, except for when they're idling in Valdrakken.

Yep.. This is my main complaint with DF
They were better at this in cata and classic. Ofc never as good as Tolkien but still .... dragonflight is basically elfflight and friendship is magic stories xD

[Wangming]

Yeah, but Iridikron's goal is to undo the titan's grip on Azeroth and to essentially allow the Old Gods and the elementals to reclaim Azeroth. It's not a cosmic goal, it's entirely based on Azeroth itself. Which is why I'm always scratching my head over people thinking that Iridikron is going off world to hang out with the void lords on Shadow planet no. 5 when his goals have always revolved around Azeroth and Azeroth alone.

Well Void vs Light doesn't need to be the final decisive battle between those two forces. Jus A battle with that theme.

[Azalar]

Welp we also have some cool dragon form art! What we miss is some dragon form action in game I guess.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I think having an expansion focused on H/A races that deal with things/enemies that are very dangerous for their people and their homes would be nice.

Nothing universe or world like ending but still a big danger, but much more natural and grounded + your favorite race presence, few of the top of my head.

Undead could be doing more stuff with scarlet crusade after their heritage questline, rebuilding lordaeron, not having to live underground anymore.
Orcs could have campaign about healing durotar and rebuilding their clans after orc heritage questline with some danger ahead.
Humans could have a campaign about house of nobles and danger there, dealing with some corruption with maybe some new dungeon inside of stormwind.

For example, it would be awesome to hang out with bunch of taurens in their capitol city with new features when it comes to gameplay, just like it was cool to see your class in order halls.

[Teriz]

Part of me can't help but wonder what's Therazane's play in Iridikron's plot, because she SHOULD be involved in some way. I mean, why are the incarnates now like some sort of Elemental Lords 2.0? Why is Fyrakk portrayed as somebody who could easily topple Ragnaros -and does indeed crush Smolderon-?

The incarnates represent pre-order Azeroth, and the aspects represent post-order Azeroth. Incarnates are elemental/old god empowered, and the aspects are empowered by the titans. If we ride this to its natural conclusion, there's going to be some old god influence and more elemental lords thrust into the narrative shortly, because in pre-order Azeroth, the elemental lords worked closely with the old gods.

Which is why they got imprisoned just like the old gods did when the titans ordered Azeroth.

[Nathanyel]

Welp we also have some cool dragon form art! What we miss is some dragon form action in game I guess.

Second one is half Visage forms talking, but still.

[Nightshade711]

For those advocating for it; What exactly would be the point of a light vs void expansion? In other words, why are we doing it, who are we fighting, where are we fighting, and what happens when it’s over? I’m simply not seeing a purpose behind such an expansion, and I view it as a destructive escalation of the narrative.

All of these questions are easy to answer if you’ve been paying attention.

Like if we’re taking spaceships to other planets to fight void monsters, how do we go back to Azeroth and whack Gnolls, dragons, and troggs?

We’ve literally had this happen for two expansions. It’s not an issue.
Legion we were taking spaceships to other planets to fight demon (and void) monsters. Shadowlands we went to another whole plane of reality & to where the afterlives were created.

Both had us back on Azeroth whacking Gnolls, Dragons, Troggs, and Quillboar in the following expansion.

At this point a void focused (or light vs void) expansion is all but confirmed.
Especially with the datamined encounters that COULD likely be for DF -> 11.0 transition. I could see a mini-dungeon or raid like Ruby sanctum.



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Well Void vs Light doesn't need to be the final decisive battle between those two forces. Jus A battle with that theme.

True. I believe that it won’t be a huge “we’re going to Zereth Umbra to defeat the void” kinda thing.

I think it’ll be like Legion where the void is invading Azeroth, and at most we’d go to another planet in a patch to fight some big bad.
(Like maybe Xal’atath travels to K’aresh to try and consume the essence of Dimensius or something and we have to stop her)

[Teriz]

Good point. Once the doors are opened, there's no way to close them. I'm astonished how recklessly story team decided to introduce the grand-scale narrative into the game, and cornered themselves in the process. I'm doomsayer, I know, but I simply can't see a way to fix the "story" without either a major retcon or just the reset. It's not like you can just simply "forget", right? And the recent interview with Senior Narrative Designers doesn't fill me with optimism either, as they pointed out that they treat "inconsistencies" as "opportunities" rather than "errors"... it's just such a lazy approach - it seems the narrative team specced into relativism and everything is just a matter of perspective, unreliable sources and lack of greater context, lol.

I believe you fix it by simply grounding the expansions and resist the urge to lose your crap and push cosmic silliness. I know Azeroth is running out of new places to explore, which is why a world revamp has to eventually happen, because you have to stick this game to Azeroth by any means necessary.

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All of these questions are easy to answer if you’ve been paying attention.
We’ve literally had this happen for two expansions. It’s not an issue.
Legion we were taking spaceships to other planets to fight demon (and void) monsters. Shadowlands we went to another whole plane of reality & to where the afterlives were created.



Both had us back on Azeroth whacking Gnolls, Dragons, Troggs, and Quillboar in the following expansion.

The problem though is that people were largely getting sick of Argus by the end of 7.3, and Shadowlands almost killed the game. I believe it's rather clear that the user base isn't a fan of us going cosmic and punching gods and titans in the face.

At this point a void focused (or light vs void) expansion is all but confirmed.

And what's the end goal of such an expansion? Are we going to destroy the Void lords, the guys who literally created the Old Gods?

Do you realize how absurd that sounds?

[Reive]

Second one is half Visage forms talking, but still.

yeah it's not much. most cinematics have both the incarnates and the aspect talk in visage form